PEC GT4 Experience - A few Thoughts

PEC GT4 Experience - A few Thoughts

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SagMan

Original Poster:

622 posts

219 months

Friday 17th August 2018
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Had fun on my 5th PEC day this week. My wife purchased Macan, but kindly donated to my good self and changed to a GT4.

As usual, they guys and girls look after you well, very welcoming and a thoroughly high class facility. Lots of great cars to look around in paddock and liked the orange GTS in showroom.

I'm a particular 911 fan, ideally rear wheel drive and manual. Had an a couple of GT3's (997 gen 2 plus 991 PDK) but got no where on latest GT3 and current values are out of my range. But really looking forward to trying GT4 given years of excellent press. Initial thoughts was didn't look great in Black. Seen plenty of white, red cars which I thought looked amazing, but didn't work for me. The standard non bucket seats were excellent, never thought about buckets all session. The gearbox and suspension felt GT product, the engine was excellent once in rev range. It missed low down torque for me. In tighter twisty corners, I couldn't get it to punch out of apex. Trying figure of 8 work and low grip circuit, I had to me much more aggressive than thought to provoke the car.

On the two circuits it was very capable as expected, a very quick car. Something just didn't get me, can't really work it out. I asked instructor if a 911 C2S manual was available as a back to back. Non available but we did try 3 laps in a C4 S manual. Within lap one, I worked it out. Its the involvement, managing the weight, managing the grip and having low down torque to "play" with the chassis. I remembered on my previous PEC day, GT Course, the standard 911 C2s Manual was a particular favourite of the day, just after the 991 GT3 RS which shocked me for capability.

For me I would prefer 911 C2s Manual or GTS over a Cayman GT4, but it did feel like a proper GT car, just lacking in torque and the mid engine layout clearly not for me when so much mechanical grip involved.
Lovely cars though.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Friday 17th August 2018
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Torques fine on the car you, have to play to mid engine strengths also which the PEC cars are not set up for and start to hunt out 1.5g levels.

I like the directness of a mid engine over rear.
You just seem to enjoy the Turbo's power more. As always GT cars are more for track and once set up well can be very involving the PEC tracks are a little short.

Yes the GT4 lacks a bit of power for that chassis but you can give it 430BHp for 8k so a bargain of a buy at £75k.
But as an example it's got more torque lower down than say a 997 GT3 ! 299 @ 5.5k vs the GT4 310 at 4,750.



Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 17th August 17:09

SagMan

Original Poster:

622 posts

219 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
I think your probably correct, the tracks are very short, but do represent my day to day driving, with small both A & B roads. I just preferred the 911 as more involvement re the weight and had grunt to exploit it. Another 50-75 BHP on Cayman low down would be great, how would you recommend the aftermarket upgrade you mention?

I currently run a Jaguar F-Type R which is just so much fun on any road anytime apart from a track!. You can exploit the chassis so easily, but I would like a more focussed chassis and happy to have less power if I'm involved in the process of making it all work together!

SagMan

Original Poster:

622 posts

219 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
Oh and totally agree with your 997 GT3 comparison. I never gelled with it on the road, had to drive far too hard to enjoy, it was brilliant on the track though. But it has to me my everyday car as well.

I was reading in supercar section the topic about are todays performance cars too fast for the road. In most cases of course yes, Ive had too many points now. . Would love a 350-450 bhp car that is rear wheel drive, manual and playful chassis that can be used for daily miles and taken to track for a few hours. Was hoping GT4 filed that gap, but didn't quite get that feeling, but Christ 2 hours at PEC maybe not representative.

Thank you

JayK12

2,321 posts

201 months

Friday 17th August 2018
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SagMan said:
I think your probably correct, the tracks are very short, but do represent my day to day driving, with small both A & B roads. I just preferred the 911 as more involvement re the weight and had grunt to exploit it. Another 50-75 BHP on Cayman low down would be great, how would you recommend the aftermarket upgrade you mention?

I currently run a Jaguar F-Type R which is just so much fun on any road anytime apart from a track!. You can exploit the chassis so easily, but I would like a more focussed chassis and happy to have less power if I'm involved in the process of making it all work together!
http://www.ehresmann-automotive.com/

Think he charges 5K to get it to 425hp.

SagMan

Original Poster:

622 posts

219 months

Friday 17th August 2018
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Thank you

SagMan

Original Poster:

622 posts

219 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
Thank you

isaldiri

18,412 posts

167 months

Sunday 19th August 2018
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woollyjoe said:
More power won’t help IMO. Better gearing certainly would.
More power absolutely would solve the issue of long gearing.... I don't see how one can say the car would improve with shorter gears but not more power as the net effect is to put down more power at the wheels so that the car accelerates faster.

BubblesNW

1,710 posts

182 months

Sunday 19th August 2018
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isaldiri said:
woollyjoe said:
More power won’t help IMO. Better gearing certainly would.
More power absolutely would solve the issue of long gearing.... I don't see how one can say the car would improve with shorter gears but not more power as the net effect is to put down more power at the wheels so that the car accelerates faster.
You can do both. Shorter gearing on 1-5 and keep 6 the same via Autoquest and 430bhp from Ehresmann.

TDT

4,910 posts

118 months

Sunday 19th August 2018
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BubblesNW said:
You can do both. Shorter gearing on 1-5 and keep 6 the same via Autoquest and 430bhp from Ehresmann.
Even better would be shorter 2,3 & 4, standard 5 but then have 6th as a true over-drive high speed cruising gear. This isn’t available afaik but one can wish.

isaldiri

18,412 posts

167 months

Monday 20th August 2018
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BubblesNW said:
You can do both. Shorter gearing on 1-5 and keep 6 the same via Autoquest and 430bhp from Ehresmann.
Yes you could but my point was that the long gearing was an issue primarily (imo anyway) due to lack of power.

And iirc, shorter gears 1&2 would be a bit tricky to manage. Getting a shorter gearset for 3-5 is not too difficult though.

Taffy66

5,964 posts

101 months

Monday 20th August 2018
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Rather bizzarely all manual 981s seem to suffer from overly long gearing, in complete contrast to V8 Ferraris which some accuse of having overly short ratios..
Its one reason why the 981 performs so much better with PDK due to its shorter gearing..Of course this doesn't apply to the manual only Spyder/GT4..!

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Monday 20th August 2018
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woollyjoe said:
Sorry if I misunderstand.... if I have more power AND longer gears, don’t I just go faster in each gear before having to shift?

The shorter gearing is about style and preference for those that like shifting but want to stay in power band (above 4K revs).
with more power you go faster so do get to change gear more often as you will get into 4th, have to brake more and will change back to 3rd. So more power = more gear changing more braking more involvement etc.

in the standard car you tend to be able to stay in 3rd all of the time !

I am doing more work in the GT3 I own than I ever did in the GT4 but I am going faster which is not ideal I guess.

So either power or gearing will net you more involvement.

nudgerwilliams

247 posts

180 months

Monday 20th August 2018
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SagMan said:
I think your probably correct, the tracks are very short, but do represent my day to day driving, with small both A & B roads. I just preferred the 911 as more involvement re the weight and had grunt to exploit it. Another 50-75 BHP on Cayman low down would be great, how would you recommend the aftermarket upgrade you mention?

I currently run a Jaguar F-Type R which is just so much fun on any road anytime apart from a track!. You can exploit the chassis so easily, but I would like a more focussed chassis and happy to have less power if I'm involved in the process of making it all work together!
I know what you mean and last time I was at PEC really enjoyed the 911 2S for exctly the reason you mention. As you say the GT4 is quite different, and you really notice that you cannot feel the weight of the engine in the same way. To enjoy the GT4 on the road I find you just have to tune in to that purity of response. On track, you can get some really glorious slides that feel very different and more controllable that when a 911 lets go.

David

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Monday 20th August 2018
quotequote all
nudgerwilliams said:
I know what you mean and last time I was at PEC really enjoyed the 911 2S for exctly the reason you mention. As you say the GT4 is quite different, and you really notice that you cannot feel the weight of the engine in the same way. To enjoy the GT4 on the road I find you just have to tune in to that purity of response. On track, you can get some really glorious slides that feel very different and more controllable that when a 911 lets go.

David
I find the GT3 more controllable on track over the limit, GT4 you don't really want to be going over the limits I found, that's mid engine for you.

Taffy66

5,964 posts

101 months

Monday 20th August 2018
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Porsche911R said:
I find the GT3 more controllable on track over the limit, GT4 you don't really want to be going over the limits I found, that's mid engine for you.
Ditto..I find the new GT3 a doddle to drive over the limit as its easy to control and very progressive on breakaway..I found the GT4 more difficult on the limit as its got a snappier breakaway especially in the wet...The GT3 is much better in the wet on the limit IMO..
All of this is on track i hasten to add as i don't drive like this on public roads for obvious reasons..

isaldiri

18,412 posts

167 months

Monday 20th August 2018
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Assuming one isn't bothered by absolute speeds (and let's face it even the relatively shorter geared cars like the 7.2rs or the 991.2gt3 are way over the nsl at the top of 2nd gear), enough power would get one changing gears often on the road too wink I didn't think the gearing was a major issue personally and would definitely have taken more power especially at the top of the tev range anytime over shorter gearing as I didn't find revving out the gt4 particularly satisfying.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Monday 20th August 2018
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I say 300 bhp is a sweet spot for road use, less BHP is just a hassle for over takes, As I have said before I over take 20+ cars a day every day, and most often that means doing 3+ cars in one go as the ***** will sit behind a 35 mph car in a 60.

My R is still the best road car, the GT4 was a bit dull ie leave it in 3rd ! , the older GT3 pointless due to the engine and gearing and the latest GT3 is fun but you are going at really daft speeds but it does excite but you are double the NSL very easy. But I love that engine, it's amazing.

Fun and new cars is dead at normal speeds that's progress.

GT4 gearing was an issue, but so was the lack of power for that car. hence if the new one has PDK ratio's and 420bhp it sounds a bit nice. I would swap my GT3 back for one due to having £80k cash back to buy a £35k Elise for the week ends.

GT4 has found a nice ownership in the "drive to a track day" tool, do some laps and drive home for 1/2 the price of a GT3.


Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 20th August 11:26

nudgerwilliams

247 posts

180 months

Monday 20th August 2018
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Taffy66 said:
Porsche911R said:
I find the GT3 more controllable on track over the limit, GT4 you don't really want to be going over the limits I found, that's mid engine for you.
Ditto..I find the new GT3 a doddle to drive over the limit as its easy to control and very progressive on breakaway..I found the GT4 more difficult on the limit as its got a snappier breakaway especially in the wet...The GT3 is much better in the wet on the limit IMO..
All of this is on track i hasten to add as i don't drive like this on public roads for obvious reasons..
Not driven a GT3 on track, so will take your workd for that. My 911 track experience is mostly in a '64 RS, which is perhaps a different comparison given the 25 years of chassis development since then! I suppose what I was trying to get at is that a powerslide in a mid-engined car feels quite different from a 911.

TDT

4,910 posts

118 months

Monday 20th August 2018
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
GT4 has found a nice ownership in the "drive to a track day" tool, do some laps and drive home for 1/2 the price of a GT3.
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