Supermarket Fuel, Facts Please

[Flumpo]

DaveCWK said:

So, about those facts then.
It's not some great mystery of an industry - there must be someone reading who is qualified to comment on the potential differences?

- additives; composition, R&D etc
- exact blend of biofuel
- tank/pump/supply maintenance regime
- Supply route / turnover

... are just some random things that come to mind that might differ between retailers & affect the consumer.

Surely it’s like anything, you can buy a loaf of bread from Morrisons or buy an artisan loaf from Waitrose that’s enriched with omega 3 and fortified with vitamins.

The Morrison’s one won’t cause your internal organs to explode, but the artisan one won’t make you run like usain bolt. But it MAY help as part of a healthy diet?

[jagnet]

Rovinghawk said:

what makes you think it is now? Advertising?

I prefer to stick to something rather more quantifiable. My ECU's fuel and timing trims seem like a good start and are all much improved on V-Power versus super unleaded from Sainsbury's, Morrisons, Esso and BP. Likewise my mpg noticeably improves with V-Power. Not really surprising given the higher RON. I can get it fairly close with Sainsbury's super + additional additives that theoretically should match the V-Power RON, but it's still not quite as good as V-Power itself.

I've found no difference in ECU adjustments between standard V-Power and V-Power Racing. Tbh I hadn't expected it to, but as it was there I gave it a try over several tank fills.

I don't have a convenient Tesco nearby to compare theirs, but using other 99 RON fuels elsewhere in Europe, whilst better than the 97 RON fuels, still don't quite match V-Power. Close, but no cigar.

And I still don't see what this has to do with fuel from 30 years ago; I wasn't even out of my first school, let alone driving then. Weren't there still new cars being sold with carburettors at the time? Back then you'd consider it to be a result if your car actually started in the morning.

[Fox-]

I too have a car with the wonderful and highly tuned BMW N57 diesel engine in it.

I use the cheapest fuel I can find. It's a diesel, not a Ferrari.

[deltashad]

Both my wife and I noticed a significant difference in performance in the elise filling up in a Petrom station than Mol or rompetrol . These are the main competitors here.
No idea why. It just seems to like it more. So I will keep filling up the elise in Petrom.
The golfs I don't care. I would never notice any difference anyway.

[Heaveho]

jagnet said:

I prefer to stick to something rather more quantifiable. My ECU's fuel and timing trims seem like a good start and are all much improved on V-Power versus super unleaded from Sainsbury's, Morrisons, Esso and BP. Likewise my mpg noticeably improves with V-Power.

I see exactly the same. 2003 Evo 8, modiffied with Evo 9 Mivec head and turbo, Evo 9 ecu, 400 bhp, 400 ft/ibs. Better fuel, better performance, better mpg. If you measure this stuff, it's the only way you can know.

My works Ford Connect 110 does 40 miles more per tank on Shell diesel Nitro. Our Lexus IS300 will advance the timing enough to perform significantly better on Tesco Momentum or Shell Nitro. Owning stuff for a long time helps you tell the difference.

[Heaveho]

Rovinghawk said:

It's relevant to the whole supermarket vs alleged premium fuel debate.

Shell wasn't better then- what makes you think it is now? Advertising?

Well no, actually using it and measuring the difference! I know, rocket science.

[GarageQueen]

Isn’t the difference really between the garage procedures rather than the fuel itself?

[donkmeister]

mick8186 said:

Bloke down the carwash recons his mates turbo went because of supermarket fuel.

I hope he sticks to washing cars and doesn't branch out into engine repairs
If you have fuel in the turbo it won't be due to where that fuel was purchased...
(OP, valid question, this bit just tickled me!)

[mick8186]

donkmeister said:

I hope he sticks to washing cars and doesn't branch out into engine repairs
If you have fuel in the turbo it won't be due to where that fuel was purchased...
(OP, valid question, this bit just tickled me!)

This tickled me to, some times my sarcasm gets me to. Seems I have opened Pandora’s box here

[stevesingo]

chris4652009 said:

WestyCarl said:

cheesesliceking said:

“highly tuned lump”
Nope
Nope
Nope
Nope
Nope
Nope

It’s a fking dag,dag,dag,dag, diesel, albeit with a nice body. It’s not highly anything. Just use whatever diesel makes you feel better. I’d be putting the cheapest stuff in I could find, I mean you bought/leased it to save money right? So why pay more for Shell/BP’s bullst.

lol at the diesel lot that claim to have a "highly" anything. no mate it's a diesel. get a grip

I suppose being ignorant to engine technology would make you think that.

If you compare BMEP across the spectrum of the market, Derv engines tend to be highest. The technology applied to derv and petrol engines is equally advanced, just different.

[cbmotorsport]

dazwalsh said:

I run a citroen beringo van for work, and i couldnt care less what fuel went into it. Over winter it started cutting out on me when i was going up hills or accelerating quickly, until the point it wouldnt move unless i was ever so gently getting up to speed and any sort of incline and it would go again.

Anyways i called AA out to it and he immediately said it was due to cheap supermarket fuel gunging up the filter in cold weather. He showd me a photo of him curting open a filter and it was a milky sludge. Said it was his third of the day and numerous for the week. He mentioned tesco as having pretty horrendous quality fuel.

I wonder if it was the same AA expert that repeatedly tried to start my Golf GTI after the cam chain tensioner gave up? He knew his onions.

[anonymous-user]

coldel said:

TooMany2cvs said:

But BP and Shell do much more - refining, industrial supply etc - so I can believe their profits may well be higher. Not to mention that they're globals in the way Tesco isn't.

But the point was around the idea that Tesco would not be checking the fuel they supply as well as say BP or Shell, to which I responded that given the sheer scale of Tesco's fuel business, I am pretty confident they do and highlighted that in terms of forecourt sales they out sell on volume vs Shell and BP. The debate was in no way to do with global profits, other industries etc. it was commenting that given Tesco sell tens of billions of pounds of the stuff, comparing their fuel business quality control to that of a category manager of a meat supplier was not really comparable!

Tesco have far fewer people working in fuel supply v meat supply.

[anonymous-user]

littleredrooster said:

mick8186 said:

Supermarket Fuel, Facts Please

Facts? On PH? Is this man serious? You may - if you're lucky - get one scientific, reasoned reply...



...but I'm betting on at least 12 pages of opinions with no backup or relation to facts.

Me? I'll merely point to the fact (...that word again...) that there's only 6 refineries making the stuff, so it's unlikely that a fuel station in (say) North Wales would get a specialised delivery from (say) Grangemouth.

Draw your own conclusions.

That’s fine but ignores all the refined product brought into the uk from elsewhere.

[oyster]

Keep the urban myths, rumours, gossip, brand following going.....

It means I can fill up quicker at the supermarket as there's a few less customers. And it helps fund our schools/hospitals etc by the extra VAT these folks are voluntarily paying.

[Scottie - NW]

I often use my track car on the roads, and one of the advantages is that it has after market Apexi engine management, with lots of displays and logging features. This includes showing live knock values, and total over a given journey or recording period.

Talking about petrol only, Shell V power is constantly the best providing the best results, however Tesco 99 is a very close second, so I often use this. BP and other brands are noticeably worse when comparing their Top Premium petrol against Shell and Tesco.

It is useful to have live logging showing how good the petrol is you just bought

[NickGRhodes]

Injector will become partly clogged and spray pattern will become sub-optimal with time, due to lack of good additives.
Even engines run on V-power show some deterioation in spray pattern with high milage.
This is based on someone I know on another car related forum who cleans injectors for a living.
I can dig out links to the converstations later.

Historically there have been more widespread issues with fuel from Supermarkets due to poorer quality control of the storage tanks, keeping them clean and dry, though been a long time since I known there be a widespread issue, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_Kingdom_...

Edited by NickGRhodes on Tuesday 21st August 11:41

[Camelot1971]

BAM225 said:

Camelot1971 said:

Just to be clear, you are saying that all fuel, regardless of brand, is exactly the same?

No, poor reading skills, must try harder, we are saying it all comes from the same place, the difference is the mixture provided.

So tesco fuel and bp fuel and shell fuel, all starts out the same, and then have addictives added depending on destination.

I read perfectly well, thank you. You and others are stating that all fuel is the same and therefore just buy it where it is cheapest.

But all fuel is not the same if the brands add their own additives. It's not unreasonable to expect there to be differences with the additives on how your car runs. Or are you saying that they make no difference at all?

Edited by Camelot1971 on Tuesday 21st August 11:41

[coldel]

Roman Rhodes said:

Tesco have far fewer people working in fuel supply v meat supply.

Whats your source? And what does that actually mean? Tesco have no one working in fuel supply, nor meat supply, they are the retailer who receipt the products from suppliers and sells on to end consumers. Retailers have what are called category managers in the food business, these people manage the inventory and supply of their category. There is likely to be one category manager for meats, thats one person, who has a support function they report into. Fuel is a completely separate business just like the bank, mobile etc. is.

Be interested to here your quantification of the view above?

[ryandoc]

Haven’t read much of this.

The facts. All of the fuel is exact same whether it be for shell / BP or your local Tesco. Comes from the same tank, not refined differently. Identical.

The additives are all that differ and they are added at the loading nozzle right before it enters the loading compartment.

She’ll no longer own a refinery in this country, they but their fuel from someone else who has added this additive for them, which is Shell’s case is GTL.

100% fact. Worked for Shell. Looked after the flow metering at a certain very large ex refinery of theirs and was up close and personal with the loading, the additives.
Use to carry around spare loading cards in my pocket In case any drivers cards had issues. One was for Shell, the other one covered every other customer. Ie all the others even gor the same additive but shell got their own.
Dealt with all the loading systems, BOL’s. Operated / maintained the loading system blah blah.

Anyone tells you the fuels are refined different are talking out their hole.

[Never you mind]

Used Tesco 99/BP Ultimate and Shell VPower on the lambo and not noticed any difference whatsoever.

The wife uses Tesco99 on her AMG (Proper AMG and Not AMG Line) almost exclusively and surprise surprise nothing has happened to it.

It's all marketing bullst really.