Supermarket Fuel, Facts Please
Discussion
Roman Rhodes said:
Having retailed several billion litres of fuel over the years I can confirm that no driver has ever tested fuel at a site or anywhere else. Not BP, Shell, Esso or anyone else! The vast majority of tanker drivers work for 3rd party logistics companies and have nothing to do with the fuel brand. Any testing at the gantry would be very infrequent and, again, nothing to do with the driver. I’m going back from present day to more than 30 years ago. Where you have got these ideas from I can’t imagine. Sorry if that sounds blunt - I do agree with the gist of some of your other points!
I’m not going to get into a pis*ing contest with you, I know for a fact that when I worked at BP we used BP drivers as well as DHL (who also deliver for Morrison’s) but have now lost the BP contract, and we, the terminal ops, took samples from the tankers and tested them. This was the exact berating I was expecting, you know....it being pistonheads and all that!
Back to topic though.....we were talking about fuel quality, brands versus supermarkets weren’t we?
My perspective with a little knowledge of the subject would be:
Does it all come from the same place? Yes and no! Obviously a tanker from Fawley isn’t going to supply Aberdeen but on a regional basis yes product is swapped, however some suppliers may rely on blenders and importers more than others. There is scope for ‘off-spec’ fuel (I’d say more from blenders and importers but it could be product from UK refineries too). Off spec product can be retreated and/or diluted but all product stored for distribution will have been tested to ensure BS standards are met.
So what is the difference between brands? Really only the additive packs. BP and Shell have no UK refineries - even when they did, they were only refining to the same spec as everyone else. Additive packs aren’t cheap to develop and produce. I’d say some are ‘better’ than others primarily in keeping components clean and consistent burn. It MAY translate into slightly better mpg or component life - but driving style and component manufacturing quality will be of much more importance.
Will supermarket fuel ruin my engine? No, but see above. In my experience storage at supermarkets is fine - mainly because throughput is high so stock turn is high.
Oilco’s have to jump through massive hoops to be able to claim better mpg/better performance/cleaner engines etc so it’s fair to say the claims, whilst buffed up by the marketing boys, will actually be true - but actually quite small.
UK fuel supply has become massively fragmented over the last 20 years. It used to be that if you had a petrol station you’d do a deal with the Oilco nearest to you (cheapest trucking cost) and they would supply you with their refined fuel via their own tankers having branded your petrol station for you. Now, it’s quite likely to be - agree a deal with an Oilco to sell their brand (a fraction of a pence per litre for the brand and a cost for the additive), find a fuel supplier, find a haulage contractor, find a signage contractor and away you go! Oilco will likely want a sample from site independently tested 2 x a year (at your cost).
Interesting factoid on the biofuels element of your fuel - you may have rendered cow as well as plant based components. Water mixing with the bio elements is the single biggest cause of fuel contamination in petrol stations.
Sorry for the ramble: tl:dr pay your money take your choice, no harm in supermarket fuel potential small benefits with some premium brands.
Does it all come from the same place? Yes and no! Obviously a tanker from Fawley isn’t going to supply Aberdeen but on a regional basis yes product is swapped, however some suppliers may rely on blenders and importers more than others. There is scope for ‘off-spec’ fuel (I’d say more from blenders and importers but it could be product from UK refineries too). Off spec product can be retreated and/or diluted but all product stored for distribution will have been tested to ensure BS standards are met.
So what is the difference between brands? Really only the additive packs. BP and Shell have no UK refineries - even when they did, they were only refining to the same spec as everyone else. Additive packs aren’t cheap to develop and produce. I’d say some are ‘better’ than others primarily in keeping components clean and consistent burn. It MAY translate into slightly better mpg or component life - but driving style and component manufacturing quality will be of much more importance.
Will supermarket fuel ruin my engine? No, but see above. In my experience storage at supermarkets is fine - mainly because throughput is high so stock turn is high.
Oilco’s have to jump through massive hoops to be able to claim better mpg/better performance/cleaner engines etc so it’s fair to say the claims, whilst buffed up by the marketing boys, will actually be true - but actually quite small.
UK fuel supply has become massively fragmented over the last 20 years. It used to be that if you had a petrol station you’d do a deal with the Oilco nearest to you (cheapest trucking cost) and they would supply you with their refined fuel via their own tankers having branded your petrol station for you. Now, it’s quite likely to be - agree a deal with an Oilco to sell their brand (a fraction of a pence per litre for the brand and a cost for the additive), find a fuel supplier, find a haulage contractor, find a signage contractor and away you go! Oilco will likely want a sample from site independently tested 2 x a year (at your cost).
Interesting factoid on the biofuels element of your fuel - you may have rendered cow as well as plant based components. Water mixing with the bio elements is the single biggest cause of fuel contamination in petrol stations.
Sorry for the ramble: tl:dr pay your money take your choice, no harm in supermarket fuel potential small benefits with some premium brands.
Aitch H said:
Roman Rhodes said:
Having retailed several billion litres of fuel over the years I can confirm that no driver has ever tested fuel at a site or anywhere else. Not BP, Shell, Esso or anyone else! The vast majority of tanker drivers work for 3rd party logistics companies and have nothing to do with the fuel brand. Any testing at the gantry would be very infrequent and, again, nothing to do with the driver. I’m going back from present day to more than 30 years ago. Where you have got these ideas from I can’t imagine. Sorry if that sounds blunt - I do agree with the gist of some of your other points!
I’m not going to get into a pis*ing contest with you, I know for a fact that when I worked at BP we used BP drivers as well as DHL (who also deliver for Morrison’s) but have now lost the BP contract, and we, the terminal ops, took samples from the tankers and tested them. This was the exact berating I was expecting, you know....it being pistonheads and all that!
Back to topic though.....we were talking about fuel quality, brands versus supermarkets weren’t we?
Not a pissing contest in any shape or form, we probably know some of the same people!
I will say though that BP had the worst f
king logistics in the industry - truly ste! We used to bill thousands every month for stock-outs!Another factoid: most fuel supply is now Vendor Managed Inventory - supplier has sight of your stocks and arranges deliveries accordingly. Works well (except for BP who must have their screens upside down!).
Roman Rhodes said:
My perspective with a little knowledge of the subject would be:
Does it all come from the same place? Yes and no! Obviously a tanker from Fawley isn’t going to supply Aberdeen.......
Additive packs aren’t cheap to develop and produce. I’d say some are ‘better’ than others primarily in keeping components clean and consistent burn. It MAY translate into slightly better mpg or component life - but driving style and component manufacturing quality will be of much more importance.
Will supermarket fuel ruin my engine? No, but see above. In my experience storage at supermarkets is fine - mainly because throughput is high so stock turn is high.
Oilco’s have to jump through massive hoops to be able to claim better mpg/better performance/cleaner engines etc so it’s fair to say the claims, whilst buffed up by the marketing boys, will actually be true - but actually quite small.....
pay your money take your choice, no harm in supermarket fuel potential small benefits with some premium brands.
The words Nail & head spring to mind Does it all come from the same place? Yes and no! Obviously a tanker from Fawley isn’t going to supply Aberdeen.......
Additive packs aren’t cheap to develop and produce. I’d say some are ‘better’ than others primarily in keeping components clean and consistent burn. It MAY translate into slightly better mpg or component life - but driving style and component manufacturing quality will be of much more importance.
Will supermarket fuel ruin my engine? No, but see above. In my experience storage at supermarkets is fine - mainly because throughput is high so stock turn is high.
Oilco’s have to jump through massive hoops to be able to claim better mpg/better performance/cleaner engines etc so it’s fair to say the claims, whilst buffed up by the marketing boys, will actually be true - but actually quite small.....
pay your money take your choice, no harm in supermarket fuel potential small benefits with some premium brands.
Aitch H said:
Roman Rhodes said:
My perspective with a little knowledge of the subject would be:
Does it all come from the same place? Yes and no! Obviously a tanker from Fawley isn’t going to supply Aberdeen.......
Additive packs aren’t cheap to develop and produce. I’d say some are ‘better’ than others primarily in keeping components clean and consistent burn. It MAY translate into slightly better mpg or component life - but driving style and component manufacturing quality will be of much more importance.
Will supermarket fuel ruin my engine? No, but see above. In my experience storage at supermarkets is fine - mainly because throughput is high so stock turn is high.
Oilco’s have to jump through massive hoops to be able to claim better mpg/better performance/cleaner engines etc so it’s fair to say the claims, whilst buffed up by the marketing boys, will actually be true - but actually quite small.....
pay your money take your choice, no harm in supermarket fuel potential small benefits with some premium brands.
The words Nail & head spring to mind Does it all come from the same place? Yes and no! Obviously a tanker from Fawley isn’t going to supply Aberdeen.......
Additive packs aren’t cheap to develop and produce. I’d say some are ‘better’ than others primarily in keeping components clean and consistent burn. It MAY translate into slightly better mpg or component life - but driving style and component manufacturing quality will be of much more importance.
Will supermarket fuel ruin my engine? No, but see above. In my experience storage at supermarkets is fine - mainly because throughput is high so stock turn is high.
Oilco’s have to jump through massive hoops to be able to claim better mpg/better performance/cleaner engines etc so it’s fair to say the claims, whilst buffed up by the marketing boys, will actually be true - but actually quite small.....
pay your money take your choice, no harm in supermarket fuel potential small benefits with some premium brands.
Cold said:
How do you spell placebo?
Spell it any way you want. It's not the same as having a turbocharged petrol car that's relies on knowing the difference between 95 and 99 RON. If you bothered your arse to measure the difference via knock count or ecu timing, you would know the difference. If you drive a dull sh!tter, it won't matter.If you really want to guarantee to know the difference, buy a modified turbocharged car mapped to run on 99 RON fuel, fill it with supermarket p!ss, and see how long it hangs together when you kick it's brains in for an extended period of time. Don't moan when you get an engine rebuild related bill, you were warned.
Heaveho said:
Spell it any way you want. It's not the same as having a turbocharged petrol car that's relies on knowing the difference between 95 and 99 RON. If you bothered your arse to measure the difference via knock count or ecu timing, you would know the difference. If you drive a dull sh!tter, it won't matter.
If you really want to guarantee to know the difference, buy a modified turbocharged car mapped to run on 99 RON fuel, fill it with supermarket p!ss, and see how long it hangs together when you kick it's brains in for an extended period of time. Don't moan when you get an engine rebuild related bill, you were warned.
Supermarket p!ss. Im guessing you mean any 95 fuel?If you really want to guarantee to know the difference, buy a modified turbocharged car mapped to run on 99 RON fuel, fill it with supermarket p!ss, and see how long it hangs together when you kick it's brains in for an extended period of time. Don't moan when you get an engine rebuild related bill, you were warned.
Heaveho said:
Cold said:
How do you spell placebo?
Spell it any way you want. It's not the same as having a turbocharged petrol car that's relies on knowing the difference between 95 and 99 RON. If you bothered your arse to measure the difference via knock count or ecu timing, you would know the difference. If you drive a dull sh!tter, it won't matter.If you really want to guarantee to know the difference, buy a modified turbocharged car mapped to run on 99 RON fuel, fill it with supermarket p!ss, and see how long it hangs together when you kick it's brains in for an extended period of time. Don't moan when you get an engine rebuild related bill, you were warned.
My car produced 293bhp with 95 RON and 308 with vpower. Same Dyno, same ambient temp.
DoubleD said:
So why call it supermarket p!ss when all garages sell it?
Because people will still buy it whatever I call it. I can't legislate for the stupidity of people who live with their head up their arse. It is p!ss. The fact that people buy it doesn't mean it isn't, or make my opinion wrong. You read my post about measuring knock count and timing? It matters on my car, which is why I need to know, and why I can't allow it to be run on it. If you can run your car on it, do so, but it is still an inferior fuel.The proof is in the fact that everything I own has better throttle response and goes further on a tank of something like Shell Nitro, which means that, as a fuel, it is more efficient. It also means that my modified, turbocharged car, which I've owned for 15 years, and is sensitive to such issues, won't blow up because the fuel I put in it does what it says on the tin. However, you simply have to be genuinely interested in cars and how they respond to accept that.
Heaveho said:
DoubleD said:
So why call it supermarket p!ss when all garages sell it?
Because people will still buy it whatever I call it. I can't legislate for the stupidity of people who live with their head up their arse. It is p!ss. The fact that people buy it doesn't mean it isn't, or make my opinion wrong. You read my post about measuring knock count and timing? It matters on my car, which is why I need to know, and why I can't allow it to be run on it. If you can run your car on it, do so, but it is still an inferior fuel.The proof is in the fact that everything I own has better throttle response and goes further on a tank of something like Shell Nitro, which means that, as a fuel, it is more efficient. It also means that my modified, turbocharged car, which I've owned for 15 years, and is sensitive to such issues, won't blow up because the fuel I put in it does what it says on the tin. However, you simply have to be genuinely interested in cars and how they respond to accept that.
I’ll just leave this here:
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/c...
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/...
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/3860920/tesco-to-f...
Flame me motherfkers!
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/c...
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/...
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/3860920/tesco-to-f...
Flame me motherf
kers!DoubleD said:
If the likes of shell sell it then its not supermarket p!ss
If a car makes more power on higher octane fuel, then comparatively the lower octane fuel is p!ss. If you run a car that can run on p!ss, and are happy to run it on it, no problem. Mine won't. However, I also run my other stuff that will run on p!ss on the higher octane stuff, because I believe that whatever they put in it is good for the engines of my less sensitive vehicles, and the ECU on those vehicles compensates for better fuel and gives better throttle response and mpg due to advancing the timing. My stuff is generally very reliable.I also change the oil and filter every 5k miles on everything I own ( less on the Evo ), because I like to give my stuff the chance to survive.
Supermarket fuels are cheaper for a reason. that reason is that they don't contain the detergent that other quality fuels shell/esso/BP do.
When the chap with his tanker lorry pulls up at the tanks he comes armed with a code. he enters that code during the initiation process before loading a particular customers fuel mix into his tanker. The detergent and various other additives are stored in separate tanks and then blended before filling the tanker.
The supermarkets don't or certainly didn't own their own tankers; that is why shell tankers were seen delivering fuel to the Sainsburys supermarket petrol forecourt in the centre of Telford when I worked up their in the late 90's. It's Sainsburys blend in the tankers however not Shell's!
These pearls of wisdom are from a fuel tanker driver by the way.
There is a thread on this very forum talking about supermarket fuel creaming the fuel pumps on Mondeo's if the nay sayers would like to look for it....
When the chap with his tanker lorry pulls up at the tanks he comes armed with a code. he enters that code during the initiation process before loading a particular customers fuel mix into his tanker. The detergent and various other additives are stored in separate tanks and then blended before filling the tanker.
The supermarkets don't or certainly didn't own their own tankers; that is why shell tankers were seen delivering fuel to the Sainsburys supermarket petrol forecourt in the centre of Telford when I worked up their in the late 90's. It's Sainsburys blend in the tankers however not Shell's!
These pearls of wisdom are from a fuel tanker driver by the way.
There is a thread on this very forum talking about supermarket fuel creaming the fuel pumps on Mondeo's if the nay sayers would like to look for it....
Edited by Mr Teddy Bear on Wednesday 22 August 00:53
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