RE: A45 vs GT R: The Mercedes-AMG Acid Test
Discussion
Marcus-7tcc2 said:
I’d read lots of reviews about the A45 so i thought it would be a worthwhile purchase. I was wrong.
Most frustrating overrated and disappointing car I’ve ever owned. It started niggling me after a month or two and by the end of my 8 months miserable ownership I detested it. It became the anti-performance car: I’d try and find any excuse NOT to drive it. Took an absolute bath on selling it.
If it’s so good why are the biggest items that A45 owners must after and ECU tune/tuning box and a pedal box?
What didnt you like about it? How was it frustrating? Was it a facelift car? Did you keep it in comfort mode? Most frustrating overrated and disappointing car I’ve ever owned. It started niggling me after a month or two and by the end of my 8 months miserable ownership I detested it. It became the anti-performance car: I’d try and find any excuse NOT to drive it. Took an absolute bath on selling it.
If it’s so good why are the biggest items that A45 owners must after and ECU tune/tuning box and a pedal box?
We've had one for almost two years now and love it. Wouldnt have another though, but pleased we experienced it. We have our "irritations" with ours - they are by no means perfect - but not enough to want to blow our brains out on getting rid.
I suspect RE: your last sentence because they attract the sort of person who then wants the fastest of the fast, bragging rights etc.
I was talking to a bloke who commented on ours, said his mate had one, modded to 480BHP i think he said. Apparently it was taking gearboxes on average every 4-6,000 miles or so. Well Thats Fantastic! What a pleasure that must be to own. Not.
Yet he seemed to think this was a "must do" for us, as opposed to (relatively) quietly just getting on with it with 380BHP and no issues.
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 14th September 12:55
Deep Thought said:
Marcus-7tcc2 said:
I’d read lots of reviews about the A45 so i thought it would be a worthwhile purchase. I was wrong.
Most frustrating overrated and disappointing car I’ve ever owned. It started niggling me after a month or two and by the end of my 8 months miserable ownership I detested it. It became the anti-performance car: I’d try and find any excuse NOT to drive it. Took an absolute bath on selling it.
If it’s so good why are the biggest items that A45 owners must after and ECU tune/tuning box and a pedal box?
What didnt you like about it? How was it frustrating? Was it a facelift car? Did you keep it in comfort mode? Most frustrating overrated and disappointing car I’ve ever owned. It started niggling me after a month or two and by the end of my 8 months miserable ownership I detested it. It became the anti-performance car: I’d try and find any excuse NOT to drive it. Took an absolute bath on selling it.
If it’s so good why are the biggest items that A45 owners must after and ECU tune/tuning box and a pedal box?
We've had one for almost two years now and love it. Wouldnt have another though, but pleased we experienced it. We have our "irritations" with ours - they are by no means perfect - but not enough to want to blow our brains out on getting rid.
I suspect RE: your last sentence because they attract the sort of person who then wants the fastest of the fast, bragging rights etc.
I was talking to a bloke who commented on ours, said his mate had one, modded to 480BHP i think he said. Apparently it was taking gearboxes on average every 4-6,000 miles or so. Well Thats Fantastic! What a pleasure that must be to own. Not.
Yet he seemed to think this was a "must do" for us, as opposed to (relatively) quietly just getting on with it with 380BHP and no issues.
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 14th September 12:55
BUG4LIFE said:
I'd like to know this too...I could see myself in an A45 in a few years time...what was so bad?
Hes only posted twice in 30 months so we could be waiting a while 
Of interest though his other post was in aggressive defence of the C6 RS6 because "its highly tuneable and massively reliable" but seems to be dissing the A45 because people tune it?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Oh well, no pleasing some people.
Deep Thought said:
BUG4LIFE said:
I'd like to know this too...I could see myself in an A45 in a few years time...what was so bad?
Hes only posted twice in 30 months so we could be waiting a while Of interest though his other post was in aggressive defence of the C6 RS6 because "its highly tuneable and massively reliable" but seems to be dissing the A45 because people tune it?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Oh well, no pleasing some people.
I Wasn’t ‘dissing’ people tuning the A45 at all-I tuned mine as that was they only way to get it to perform as it should have done. Became a fast flawed car as opposed to simply a deeply flawed one.
My old C6 RS6 I never tuned which was a big regret as they are a complete lunatic with an MRC/Unit 20 (the preffered options) tune on them. Still an awesome car albeit very blunt and more of a battering ram than a sharp instrument.
And I tend not to post on here due to the frankly daft dick measuring contests that occur daily. More to life than arguing with faceless people on the net whisky trying to prove your opinion is the correct one. Hence 2 posts!
Ok so I guess the easiest way would be to list what I found good on the car!
1. Looks. Significantly different from standard A Class (which is quite frankly s
te) and aggressive and purposeful. Some say the whole aero kit is too ‘Halfords’ but I disagree as I had the full monty and it really completed the car. Or you could go ‘stealth’ and the only clues would be the exhausts and Other styling parts.
2. Handling. On a tight B road the A45 is really good-short wheel base means you can really attack a road and make decent progress.
3. Pano roof - most come with this and it’s great
4. Steering wheel looks good and the alcantara inserts are stock and it feels nice.
5. Brakes-always an AMG strong point and these were excellent. Had the red calipers which looked great.
6. Full LED lights are bright and work well-high beam assist is dim witted and basically so slow to react you end up on high beam just to see into corners in the dark.
7. Reversing camera is HD and sits in its little box and only pops down when reverse is selected so it’s crystal clear. Nice touch I thought.
.....aaaand that was about it for me! You can tell I’m really scratching around when I mention a reverse camera!
Mine was a current FL December 2015 with everything on it apart from adaptive cruise. New it would have been around £54k which is frankly ridiculous for a hatch.
Worst things for me? Gearbox by far-clunky, dim witted and jerky. As it’s a small engine and large single turbo the turbo lag is epic so you plant your foot and basically nothing happens, the car has a think about it and then whoosh off you go! So you nearly have a crash every time you pull out of a junction and you have to rev the nuts off the car to actually get it to move anywhere. This in turn makes you look like a chav toolbag when all you’re trying to do is get the car to move.
Systems are nannying, overly complex and clunky. You get two selector wheels for example so you end up changing the radio when you actually wanted to engage Sport + for example. The dash has a keypad on it. On a current model car. Think about that.
Seats for me were crippling. They looked good but that was it-even with full lumbar support on a long drive it was like sitting on a rock. Horrendous.
Ride was jarring and overly firm.
MPG was PATHETIC! As you have to rev it to get the results you get an average of around 27 mpg which for a small engine is lamentable.
It never ‘felt’ quick stock. Made a lot of noise (not that great to be honest) but never felt quick. Most owners tune them and also fit ‘pedal boxes’ to try and reduce the lag (you never lose it but it’s better). So an ECU tune or a box is imho essential to actually turn the A45 into something it should be stock. So you end up paying a lot of money (around £1.5-2k) to fix something that should not be there in the first place. To me that’s insulting and flat out bang out of order.
The ‘Harmon Kardon’ system is the top one and it’s so bad you’d think they had bought a crappy Chinese stereo and stuck the HK sign on it. On BMW etc it’s brilliant but on the A45 it’s a joke.
Big problem is the base model A Class is pretty much a crap car. I had two M135’s and they are so far ahead of the A Class it’s unreal.
The new A Class seems to be much better though and so I would honestly wait for the new A45 to come out (there was a lot of rumour about the AMG nickname of ‘the predator’ but that’s just pish and about how it will look and not the performance).
This was the first AMG for me and it was a crushing disappointment. I don’t rule out a return but only the newer systems as the current one drove me insane. Many times I just wanted to drive the thing into a tree or attack it with an axe. Not many cars I hate but I detested mine unfortunately. I took an absolute bath moving it on but I couldn’t stand it any more. Just so massively disappointment and overrated in my opinion.
Sorry for the lengthy rant but as you can see I really didn’t like it!
Hope it’s given a few insights as to why I would say ‘avoid’
All boils down to what you want from a car I guess and everyone is different. If it’s good handling you’re after then there are far better and cheaper cars out there. If you like it then buy it, if you own one and love it then I’m happy for you. I really wanted to love it but it went the other way unfortunately.
Replacement for me? I was headed back to Audi RS and tried the RS3 saloon but it left me strangely cold. On a whim I went to BMW and all it took was one drive in an M3 Competition Pack and I was sold. Brilliant car and just so much better in every way than the A45.
1. Looks. Significantly different from standard A Class (which is quite frankly s
te) and aggressive and purposeful. Some say the whole aero kit is too ‘Halfords’ but I disagree as I had the full monty and it really completed the car. Or you could go ‘stealth’ and the only clues would be the exhausts and Other styling parts.2. Handling. On a tight B road the A45 is really good-short wheel base means you can really attack a road and make decent progress.
3. Pano roof - most come with this and it’s great
4. Steering wheel looks good and the alcantara inserts are stock and it feels nice.
5. Brakes-always an AMG strong point and these were excellent. Had the red calipers which looked great.
6. Full LED lights are bright and work well-high beam assist is dim witted and basically so slow to react you end up on high beam just to see into corners in the dark.
7. Reversing camera is HD and sits in its little box and only pops down when reverse is selected so it’s crystal clear. Nice touch I thought.
.....aaaand that was about it for me! You can tell I’m really scratching around when I mention a reverse camera!
Mine was a current FL December 2015 with everything on it apart from adaptive cruise. New it would have been around £54k which is frankly ridiculous for a hatch.
Worst things for me? Gearbox by far-clunky, dim witted and jerky. As it’s a small engine and large single turbo the turbo lag is epic so you plant your foot and basically nothing happens, the car has a think about it and then whoosh off you go! So you nearly have a crash every time you pull out of a junction and you have to rev the nuts off the car to actually get it to move anywhere. This in turn makes you look like a chav toolbag when all you’re trying to do is get the car to move.
Systems are nannying, overly complex and clunky. You get two selector wheels for example so you end up changing the radio when you actually wanted to engage Sport + for example. The dash has a keypad on it. On a current model car. Think about that.
Seats for me were crippling. They looked good but that was it-even with full lumbar support on a long drive it was like sitting on a rock. Horrendous.
Ride was jarring and overly firm.
MPG was PATHETIC! As you have to rev it to get the results you get an average of around 27 mpg which for a small engine is lamentable.
It never ‘felt’ quick stock. Made a lot of noise (not that great to be honest) but never felt quick. Most owners tune them and also fit ‘pedal boxes’ to try and reduce the lag (you never lose it but it’s better). So an ECU tune or a box is imho essential to actually turn the A45 into something it should be stock. So you end up paying a lot of money (around £1.5-2k) to fix something that should not be there in the first place. To me that’s insulting and flat out bang out of order.
The ‘Harmon Kardon’ system is the top one and it’s so bad you’d think they had bought a crappy Chinese stereo and stuck the HK sign on it. On BMW etc it’s brilliant but on the A45 it’s a joke.
Big problem is the base model A Class is pretty much a crap car. I had two M135’s and they are so far ahead of the A Class it’s unreal.
The new A Class seems to be much better though and so I would honestly wait for the new A45 to come out (there was a lot of rumour about the AMG nickname of ‘the predator’ but that’s just pish and about how it will look and not the performance).
This was the first AMG for me and it was a crushing disappointment. I don’t rule out a return but only the newer systems as the current one drove me insane. Many times I just wanted to drive the thing into a tree or attack it with an axe. Not many cars I hate but I detested mine unfortunately. I took an absolute bath moving it on but I couldn’t stand it any more. Just so massively disappointment and overrated in my opinion.
Sorry for the lengthy rant but as you can see I really didn’t like it!
Hope it’s given a few insights as to why I would say ‘avoid’
All boils down to what you want from a car I guess and everyone is different. If it’s good handling you’re after then there are far better and cheaper cars out there. If you like it then buy it, if you own one and love it then I’m happy for you. I really wanted to love it but it went the other way unfortunately.
Replacement for me? I was headed back to Audi RS and tried the RS3 saloon but it left me strangely cold. On a whim I went to BMW and all it took was one drive in an M3 Competition Pack and I was sold. Brilliant car and just so much better in every way than the A45.
Interesting. We've ours 2 years this October.
Marcus-7tcc2 said:
1. Looks. Significantly different from standard A Class (which is quite frankly ste) and aggressive and purposeful. Some say the whole aero kit is too ‘Halfords’ but I disagree as I had the full monty and it really completed the car. Or you could go ‘stealth’ and the only clues would be the exhausts and Other styling parts. I'm personally not a big fan of the looks. You can get an AMG Line A180d or whatever to look close to identical. We didnt opt for the Aero pack for the said 'Halfords' reason (each to their own 
) and i dont think the base A class is a particularly pretty car.
2. Handling. On a tight B road the A45 is really good-short wheel base means you can really attack a road and make decent progress. Agreed. We live out on the country so its a hoot
3. Pano roof - most come with this and it’s great. Agreed. We did some sort of pack and got this but it helps the overall look. Our car is red with black wheels so the Pano roof aesthetically looks very well.
4. Steering wheel looks good and the alcantara inserts are stock and it feels nice. Agreed.
5. Brakes-always an AMG strong point and these were excellent. Had the red calipers which looked great.Agreed. Brakes are fantastic. I will probably kill myself in our Cooper S because i "assume" the brakes are going to be as good and then ARGGGGHHH!
6. Full LED lights are bright and work well-high beam assist is dim witted and basically so slow to react you end up on high beam just to see into corners in the dark. Hmm.. They must have improved high beam assist. We find it works very well.
7. Reversing camera is HD and sits in its little box and only pops down when reverse is selected so it’s crystal clear. Nice touch I thought.[b[Agreed[/b]
te) and aggressive and purposeful. Some say the whole aero kit is too ‘Halfords’ but I disagree as I had the full monty and it really completed the car. Or you could go ‘stealth’ and the only clues would be the exhausts and Other styling parts. I'm personally not a big fan of the looks. You can get an AMG Line A180d or whatever to look close to identical. We didnt opt for the Aero pack for the said 'Halfords' reason (each to their own ) and i dont think the base A class is a particularly pretty car.2. Handling. On a tight B road the A45 is really good-short wheel base means you can really attack a road and make decent progress. Agreed. We live out on the country so its a hoot
3. Pano roof - most come with this and it’s great. Agreed. We did some sort of pack and got this but it helps the overall look. Our car is red with black wheels so the Pano roof aesthetically looks very well.
4. Steering wheel looks good and the alcantara inserts are stock and it feels nice. Agreed.
5. Brakes-always an AMG strong point and these were excellent. Had the red calipers which looked great.Agreed. Brakes are fantastic. I will probably kill myself in our Cooper S because i "assume" the brakes are going to be as good and then ARGGGGHHH!
6. Full LED lights are bright and work well-high beam assist is dim witted and basically so slow to react you end up on high beam just to see into corners in the dark. Hmm.. They must have improved high beam assist. We find it works very well.
7. Reversing camera is HD and sits in its little box and only pops down when reverse is selected so it’s crystal clear. Nice touch I thought.[b[Agreed[/b]
DoubleD said:
And you didnt notice the epic turbo lag or clunky auto box?
Theres only epic turbo lag / clunky box if you use Comfort mode (the default setting unfortunately, and it reverts to it every time the car is knocked off for more than a few minutes. Very irritating.Sport or Sport+ modes makes a big difference. Changing to Sport mode is the first thing we do when we get in to the car. Sport Plus a lot of the time.
RACE mode if you're feeling brave.
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 14th September 21:28
DoubleD said:
And you didnt notice the epic turbo lag or clunky auto box?
Don’t recall noticing it no...that realistion came after it was too late unfortunately. I don’t mind admitting when I make a mistake and the A45 was an expensive one. Only good thing was I didn’t buy it new otherwise I really would’ve felt cheated.
And...
They were looking £600 or something for the card for it, but we got one off ebay for £60. Hardly even worth that.
Wipers? Very dim witted for auto wipers.
I can forsee the new one being around £50K for the base car, so nigh on £60K for a fully fitted out one and thats just getting silly.
An M3 is 50% more expensive again than an A45 / M2 / RS3 so yes, it should be better.
If you didnt like it, you didnt like it. Each to their own, as you say.
We've had our irritations with the A45. We wouldnt have another but we've enjoyed / are enjoying ours. M3 / M4 would be too big for our needs. She likes a smaller car. On the radar for us would be an M2 Competition or a Cayman.
Marcus-7tcc2 said:
Mine was a current FL December 2015 with everything on it apart from adaptive cruise. New it would have been around £54k which is frankly ridiculous for a hatch.Agreed. Stupid money. The new one will be worse, the depreciation is horrifying too 
Worst things for me? Gearbox by far-clunky, dim witted and jerky. As it’s a small engine and large single turbo the turbo lag is epic so you plant your foot and basically nothing happens, the car has a think about it and then whoosh off you go! So you nearly have a crash every time you pull out of a junction and you have to rev the nuts off the car to actually get it to move anywhere. This in turn makes you look like a chav toolbag when all you’re trying to do is get the car to move. .Yes, that would be comfort mode. Sport or Sport plus should be your go to mode. Comfort mode would get you wrecked pulling out of junctions
Systems are nannying, overly complex and clunky. You get two selector wheels for example so you end up changing the radio when you actually wanted to engage Sport + for example. The dash has a keypad on it. On a current model car. Think about that. Yes far too many knobs.
Seats for me were crippling. They looked good but that was it-even with full lumbar support on a long drive it was like sitting on a rock. Horrendous.
Ride was jarring and overly firm. We havent notice this - and my wife gets real back problems in my MCS. If we were on a long run we'd drop to one of the softer settings though.
MPG was PATHETIC! As you have to rev it to get the results you get an average of around 27 mpg which for a small engine is lamentable. 27MPG is about righ for that level of power though. I dont think we've had any car with more than 250BHP that broke that. Our last 2.0i Turbo Z4 did 27. Our 370Z GT did 25mpg. Our Subaru did 22mpg. Thats life
It never ‘felt’ quick stock. Made a lot of noise (not that great to be honest) but never felt quick. Most owners tune them and also fit ‘pedal boxes’ to try and reduce the lag (you never lose it but it’s better). So an ECU tune or a box is imho essential to actually turn the A45 into something it should be stock. So you end up paying a lot of money (around £1.5-2k) to fix something that should not be there in the first place. To me that’s insulting and flat out bang out of order. Never felt the need, and wouldnt upset the warranty. Irritating that it defaults to Comfort mode though. I got my MINI recoded with a £30 app to change its default driving mode to Sport. Made a big difference to it
The ‘Harmon Kardon’ system is the top one and it’s so bad you’d think they had bought a crappy Chinese stereo and stuck the HK sign on it. On BMW etc it’s brilliant but on the A45 it’s a joke. Yeah its not fantastic, but much better than the standard system. We got it with one of the packs so wasnt a fortune but was worth doing.
Big problem is the base model A Class is pretty much a crap car. I had two M135’s and they are so far ahead of the A Class it’s unreal.
The new A Class seems to be much better though and so I would honestly wait for the new A45 to come out (there was a lot of rumour about the AMG nickname of ‘the predator’ but that’s just pish and about how it will look and not the performance).
This was the first AMG for me and it was a crushing disappointment. I don’t rule out a return but only the newer systems as the current one drove me insane. Many times I just wanted to drive the thing into a tree or attack it with an axe. Not many cars I hate but I detested mine unfortunately. I took an absolute bath moving it on but I couldn’t stand it any more. Just so massively disappointment and overrated in my opinion.
Sorry for the lengthy rant but as you can see I really didn’t like it!
Hope it’s given a few insights as to why I would say ‘avoid’
All boils down to what you want from a car I guess and everyone is different. If it’s good handling you’re after then there are far better and cheaper cars out there. If you like it then buy it, if you own one and love it then I’m happy for you. I really wanted to love it but it went the other way unfortunately.
Replacement for me? I was headed back to Audi RS and tried the RS3 saloon but it left me strangely cold. On a whim I went to BMW and all it took was one drive in an M3 Competition Pack and I was sold. Brilliant car and just so much better in every way than the A45.
What about the Sat Nav? Genuinely AWFUL and clunky. Worst things for me? Gearbox by far-clunky, dim witted and jerky. As it’s a small engine and large single turbo the turbo lag is epic so you plant your foot and basically nothing happens, the car has a think about it and then whoosh off you go! So you nearly have a crash every time you pull out of a junction and you have to rev the nuts off the car to actually get it to move anywhere. This in turn makes you look like a chav toolbag when all you’re trying to do is get the car to move. .Yes, that would be comfort mode. Sport or Sport plus should be your go to mode. Comfort mode would get you wrecked pulling out of junctions
Systems are nannying, overly complex and clunky. You get two selector wheels for example so you end up changing the radio when you actually wanted to engage Sport + for example. The dash has a keypad on it. On a current model car. Think about that. Yes far too many knobs.
Seats for me were crippling. They looked good but that was it-even with full lumbar support on a long drive it was like sitting on a rock. Horrendous.
Ride was jarring and overly firm. We havent notice this - and my wife gets real back problems in my MCS. If we were on a long run we'd drop to one of the softer settings though.
MPG was PATHETIC! As you have to rev it to get the results you get an average of around 27 mpg which for a small engine is lamentable. 27MPG is about righ for that level of power though. I dont think we've had any car with more than 250BHP that broke that. Our last 2.0i Turbo Z4 did 27. Our 370Z GT did 25mpg. Our Subaru did 22mpg. Thats life
It never ‘felt’ quick stock. Made a lot of noise (not that great to be honest) but never felt quick. Most owners tune them and also fit ‘pedal boxes’ to try and reduce the lag (you never lose it but it’s better). So an ECU tune or a box is imho essential to actually turn the A45 into something it should be stock. So you end up paying a lot of money (around £1.5-2k) to fix something that should not be there in the first place. To me that’s insulting and flat out bang out of order. Never felt the need, and wouldnt upset the warranty. Irritating that it defaults to Comfort mode though. I got my MINI recoded with a £30 app to change its default driving mode to Sport. Made a big difference to it
The ‘Harmon Kardon’ system is the top one and it’s so bad you’d think they had bought a crappy Chinese stereo and stuck the HK sign on it. On BMW etc it’s brilliant but on the A45 it’s a joke. Yeah its not fantastic, but much better than the standard system. We got it with one of the packs so wasnt a fortune but was worth doing.
Big problem is the base model A Class is pretty much a crap car. I had two M135’s and they are so far ahead of the A Class it’s unreal.
The new A Class seems to be much better though and so I would honestly wait for the new A45 to come out (there was a lot of rumour about the AMG nickname of ‘the predator’ but that’s just pish and about how it will look and not the performance).
This was the first AMG for me and it was a crushing disappointment. I don’t rule out a return but only the newer systems as the current one drove me insane. Many times I just wanted to drive the thing into a tree or attack it with an axe. Not many cars I hate but I detested mine unfortunately. I took an absolute bath moving it on but I couldn’t stand it any more. Just so massively disappointment and overrated in my opinion.
Sorry for the lengthy rant but as you can see I really didn’t like it!
Hope it’s given a few insights as to why I would say ‘avoid’
All boils down to what you want from a car I guess and everyone is different. If it’s good handling you’re after then there are far better and cheaper cars out there. If you like it then buy it, if you own one and love it then I’m happy for you. I really wanted to love it but it went the other way unfortunately.
Replacement for me? I was headed back to Audi RS and tried the RS3 saloon but it left me strangely cold. On a whim I went to BMW and all it took was one drive in an M3 Competition Pack and I was sold. Brilliant car and just so much better in every way than the A45.
They were looking £600 or something for the card for it, but we got one off ebay for £60. Hardly even worth that.Wipers? Very dim witted for auto wipers.
I can forsee the new one being around £50K for the base car, so nigh on £60K for a fully fitted out one and thats just getting silly.
An M3 is 50% more expensive again than an A45 / M2 / RS3 so yes, it should be better.
If you didnt like it, you didnt like it. Each to their own, as you say.
We've had our irritations with the A45. We wouldnt have another but we've enjoyed / are enjoying ours. M3 / M4 would be too big for our needs. She likes a smaller car. On the radar for us would be an M2 Competition or a Cayman.
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 14th September 21:31
Marcus-7tcc2 said:
DoubleD said:
And you didnt notice the epic turbo lag or clunky auto box?
Don’t recall noticing it no...that realistion came after it was too late unfortunately. I don’t mind admitting when I make a mistake and the A45 was an expensive one. Only good thing was I didn’t buy it new otherwise I really would’ve felt cheated.
We bought ours new and we were getting offers of £27K at 18 months old.
I "think" we will replace it late next year (its our main car) but i'm toying with either keeping it and maybe modding it, or keeping it and getting rid of the MCS instead. Not sure. At this point i'd say its an 80% chance we will let it go.
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