JLR on 3 day week

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Discussion

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
2xChevrons said:
Sa Calobra said:
Ares said:
One word. Productivity.

Two words. Work Ethic.


The UK are largely st compared to everywhere else.

I'm sat here whilst our Polish cleaner is cleaning the house. She does the house in 3 hours compared to 4.5 hours like our last, British, cleaner. She also charges £12/hr instead of £15/hr.

She's never late, never scrimps on time, is actually cleaning at the start time rather than just arriving 5-10mins late, then spending 5-10 mins getting her stuff together - at the end of her time, she finishes whatever task she was doing at the finish time, then starts clearing/packing up - the Brit was out of the door at her allowed finish time.

She has just been telling me that she gets up at 3am and starts cleaning at 3.30. She finishes her cleaning jobs at 2pm. Heads home for 2 hours sleep, then works in a warehouse packing from 5 til 10.

That attitude is standard for Eastern Europeans.

Edited by Ares on Monday 10th December 10:20
I'd like to say there's a popular myth about Polaks however I can't say one who isn't hard working. I've come across a few who drink and fight but that's only after they've manually grafted all day. I do think our social security net is too gentle here in the UK and generations have become used to it.
Or, to look at Ares' anecdote from another perspective - that Polish cleaner is working for 16 hours a day across two jobs with no more seven hours of sleep and a grand total of half an hour (assuming no travelling time) for social, family or personal time. That's not something to hold up as a standard anyone should be expected to emulate.

Those are work hours the labour movement started fighting against over 150 years ago. "Eight hours labour, eight hours recreation, eight hours rest" is not something that should be seen as privileged or 'soft'. Those are conditions that everyone has every right to feel entitled to.
One, small, correction. She CHOOSES to work 2 jobs/16hrs a day.

On your 8/8/8, I'd agree....IF in the 8 hours of work, the average person did 8 hours of work. The fact they don't is why productivity is so dire in this country. The average Brit doesn't work hard or smart.

Too many see 8 hours/day of pay an entitlement.

/Rant Over wink

2xChevrons

3,159 posts

79 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
Ares said:
One, small, correction. She CHOOSES to work 2 jobs/16hrs a day.
I never said she was being forced to, just that it's not a standard you can reasonably expect anyone to adhere to. Especially given that:

bobtail4x4 said:
they earn enough in 3 years to go home and buy a farm they tell me, so its worth it.
It's one thing deciding to move across Europe and work like billy-o in multiple low-skilled jobs pulling 16-hour days and living in a crummy houseshare with seven other people if you know you're doing it for a discrete amount of time and you're earning enough to put aside a nestegg or a deposit on a massive house in Poland.

It's quite another to be 'stuck' in the UK with limited prospects, family ties and UK living costs. You can't raise a family while one or both parents are working 16-hour days with antisocial hours and its frankly cruel to expect anyone to do that for a large part of their working life just to 'get by' or even to (horrible phrase) 'get on'.

To take a local example to me - the famously non-integrated and Brexit-favouring town of Boston has a seemingly paradoxical problem of high unemployment amongst the indigenous locals and a high population of Eastern Europeans working away on the farm, at the food processing factories and the distribution centres. Why the paradox? Because employers pay the lowest they can while still attracting workers. The Eastern Europeans are happy to put up with the rubbish pay because it's still a tidy sum to support their living costs or house deposits in Poland/wherever and they're willing to bunk up with other immigrants to share living costs multiple ways while they're here for a year or two.

The people already in Boston, with families, mortgages and UK living costs, who have to try and find long-term work where they live, can't take the jobs available in the region because they don't cover their living costs and working 16 hours a day in two jobs to make ends meet is not a viable long-term solution and should never be one. Their public services, regional development, and infrastructure have left a large proportion of the population dependant on a supply of low-pay, low-skill work which they are being priced out of by employers chasing to the bottom on wages. Unfortunately a lot of people in Boston lay the blame on precisely the wrong people - the immigrants who are simultaneously taking advantage of the wider system and being exploited by it in detail.


Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
2xChevrons said:
Ares said:
One, small, correction. She CHOOSES to work 2 jobs/16hrs a day.
I never said she was being forced to, just that it's not a standard you can reasonably expect anyone to adhere to. Especially given that:
The standard to be aspired to is the attitude, not the hours. But Britain too often focuses on the hours, not the attitude.

....but the Labour movement to often campaigns again both. Reason 412 why we have st productivity. wink

AAGR

918 posts

160 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
Thread drift .... back to the subject, which is JLR and its problems.

A few days ago, I asked if anyone knew when (if ?) the new six-cylinder versions of the Ingenium engines were due to be announced ?

Not a dickey bird from anyone - yet. Could this be significant ?


craigjm

17,909 posts

199 months

Monday 10th December 2018
quotequote all
AAGR said:
Thread drift .... back to the subject, which is JLR and its problems.

A few days ago, I asked if anyone knew when (if ?) the new six-cylinder versions of the Ingenium engines were due to be announced ?

Not a dickey bird from anyone - yet. Could this be significant ?
The 3.0 is coming as is a 1.5 three cylinder and they will come online when the Ford based engines are phased out in the next 18 months. The first car to get them was to be the new XJ but it has been decided that the “first edition” and first 12 months of production will be electric so the engines won’t feature in the XJ until 2020. The facelifted XE and XF are focusing on mild hybrid which is a step back from the anticipated plug ins. There is however also a v8 being developed in partnership with BMW but that is likely to be extremely niche after the licence for the Ford v8 ends next year. Expect it in the next F-type I guess which is expected 2022

Digga

40,206 posts

282 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
AAGR said:
Thread drift .... back to the subject, which is JLR and its problems.

A few days ago, I asked if anyone knew when (if ?) the new six-cylinder versions of the Ingenium engines were due to be announced ?

Not a dickey bird from anyone - yet. Could this be significant ?
FWIW, the JLR engine plant, at i54 in Wolverhampton was doubled in size and capacity just a couple of years after it opened. It is a huge facility and, up until recently, has been working very well. It is just one of the things that, IMHO, JLR has done 'right'. Tata are in it for the long haul.

WonkeyDonkey

2,333 posts

102 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
Ares said:
The standard to be aspired to is the attitude, not the hours. But Britain too often focuses on the hours, not the attitude.

....but the Labour movement to often campaigns again both. Reason 412 why we have st productivity. wink
Ah the old 'workers should aspire to be exploited'.

I'd guess that the majority of people on this forum are British. Does that mean your attitude and work effort is st also?

No? Just everyone else?



Burwood

18,709 posts

245 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
craigjm said:
AAGR said:
Thread drift .... back to the subject, which is JLR and its problems.

A few days ago, I asked if anyone knew when (if ?) the new six-cylinder versions of the Ingenium engines were due to be announced ?

Not a dickey bird from anyone - yet. Could this be significant ?
The 3.0 is coming as is a 1.5 three cylinder and they will come online when the Ford based engines are phased out in the next 18 months. The first car to get them was to be the new XJ but it has been decided that the “first edition” and first 12 months of production will be electric so the engines won’t feature in the XJ until 2020. The facelifted XE and XF are focusing on mild hybrid which is a step back from the anticipated plug ins. There is however also a v8 being developed in partnership with BMW but that is likely to be extremely niche after the licence for the Ford v8 ends next year. Expect it in the next F-type I guess which is expected 2022
I’ve read they are sourcing BMW V8’s. It’s not a new engine or partnership. Buy their V8 and map it? Is that an all new engine developed by JLR. More marketing puffery

craigjm

17,909 posts

199 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
Burwood said:
craigjm said:
AAGR said:
Thread drift .... back to the subject, which is JLR and its problems.

A few days ago, I asked if anyone knew when (if ?) the new six-cylinder versions of the Ingenium engines were due to be announced ?

Not a dickey bird from anyone - yet. Could this be significant ?
The 3.0 is coming as is a 1.5 three cylinder and they will come online when the Ford based engines are phased out in the next 18 months. The first car to get them was to be the new XJ but it has been decided that the “first edition” and first 12 months of production will be electric so the engines won’t feature in the XJ until 2020. The facelifted XE and XF are focusing on mild hybrid which is a step back from the anticipated plug ins. There is however also a v8 being developed in partnership with BMW but that is likely to be extremely niche after the licence for the Ford v8 ends next year. Expect it in the next F-type I guess which is expected 2022
I’ve read they are sourcing BMW V8’s. It’s not a new engine or partnership. Buy their V8 and map it? Is that an all new engine developed by JLR. More marketing puffery
Well all of the info in post is from two insiders in the engineering facility and they say that BMW is designing a new v8 and it is getting JLR involvement so it won’t be simply the case of buying the current M5 engine.

So

26,271 posts

221 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
WonkeyDonkey said:
Ah the old 'workers should aspire to be exploited'.

I'd guess that the majority of people on this forum are British. Does that mean your attitude and work effort is st also?

No? Just everyone else?
Well, speaking personally, yes.

Burwood

18,709 posts

245 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
craigjm said:
Burwood said:
craigjm said:
AAGR said:
Thread drift .... back to the subject, which is JLR and its problems.

A few days ago, I asked if anyone knew when (if ?) the new six-cylinder versions of the Ingenium engines were due to be announced ?

Not a dickey bird from anyone - yet. Could this be significant ?
The 3.0 is coming as is a 1.5 three cylinder and they will come online when the Ford based engines are phased out in the next 18 months. The first car to get them was to be the new XJ but it has been decided that the “first edition” and first 12 months of production will be electric so the engines won’t feature in the XJ until 2020. The facelifted XE and XF are focusing on mild hybrid which is a step back from the anticipated plug ins. There is however also a v8 being developed in partnership with BMW but that is likely to be extremely niche after the licence for the Ford v8 ends next year. Expect it in the next F-type I guess which is expected 2022
I’ve read they are sourcing BMW V8’s. It’s not a new engine or partnership. Buy their V8 and map it? Is that an all new engine developed by JLR. More marketing puffery
Well all of the info in post is from two insiders in the engineering facility and they say that BMW is designing a new v8 and it is getting JLR involvement so it won’t be simply the case of buying the current M5 engine.
Sorry, I meant it is not a new JV engine being co-developed. BMW have been working on a new engine for some time. A 4.0 V8 based on 500cc per cyl ala Mercedes. In fact you could say all their engines will change as the system is modular, 2L 4cly and 3L 6cyl.

Of course JLR will make all sorts of claims as Aston does about their engines but it goes as far as JLR telling BMW what characteristics they want or BMW give JLR the code to tune those characteristics.

nunpuncher

3,364 posts

124 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
Racism "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."

I work in a large tech company with people from all over the world. All of those people will tell you there are plenty of work shy lazy folk in their home country. Its not a British affliction. Claiming all Polish/Chinese/Indian/ whatever people are dedicated with a great work ethic is nonsense. The folk you are meeting in your home town working hard are simply go getters who have ventured out to make something of themselves. In my line of work I also meet plenty of Brits doing very well in foreign countries

NomduJour

18,988 posts

258 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
craigjm said:
Well all of the info in post is from two insiders in the engineering facility and they say that BMW is designing a new v8 and it is getting JLR involvement so it won’t be simply the case of buying the current M5 engine.
My understandng too - it’s a niche engine for BMW anyway, so makes sense to share development costs etc.

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
WonkeyDonkey said:
Ares said:
The standard to be aspired to is the attitude, not the hours. But Britain too often focuses on the hours, not the attitude.

....but the Labour movement to often campaigns again both. Reason 412 why we have st productivity. wink
Ah the old 'workers should aspire to be exploited'.

I'd guess that the majority of people on this forum are British. Does that mean your attitude and work effort is st also?

No? Just everyone else?
A classic union-style response. No-one here has even intimated that 'workers should aspire to be exploited'.

E65Ross

34,946 posts

211 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
Mushroom12 said:
What's the F-type reliability like?
My dad has an F Type R, it's been reliable, only issue so far has been a faulty GPS unit which needed replacing. Doesn't feel as well put together as the M6 it replaced (which was faultless in 3 years).

craigjm

17,909 posts

199 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
NomduJour said:
craigjm said:
Well all of the info in post is from two insiders in the engineering facility and they say that BMW is designing a new v8 and it is getting JLR involvement so it won’t be simply the case of buying the current M5 engine.
My understandng too - it’s a niche engine for BMW anyway, so makes sense to share development costs etc.
Indeed and of course JLR will be the junior partner but I would rather trust what we’ll connected insiders are telling me over what I read in the likes of Autocar.

The downturn in diesel has hit JLR hard and meant that the development of the plug ins and the 3.0 and 1.5 ingenium have slipped

king arthur

6,538 posts

260 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
What is the 1.5 going in, or is that only for use in hybrid power trains?

craigjm

17,909 posts

199 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
king arthur said:
What is the 1.5 going in, or is that only for use in hybrid power trains?
As far as I know the intended use is plug in and mild hybrid functionality.

Jazzy Jag

3,412 posts

90 months

Sunday 16th December 2018
quotequote all
5000 UK job losses according to the news, today.

saaby93

Original Poster:

32,038 posts

177 months

Sunday 16th December 2018
quotequote all
Jazzy Jag said:
5000 UK job losses according to the news, today.
-
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/16/j...