JLR on 3 day week
Discussion
craigjm said:
Olivera said:
craigjm said:
The F-type is far too heavy to really compete for 911 customers
The new 992 Carrera 2S PDK unladen (EU) weight is 1590kg. The F-Type R Dynamic P380 auto book figure is 1594kg.1640kg for the 992 Carrera 4S here (Turbo I'd expect to be heavier still): https://www.porsche.com/uk/models/911/911-carrera-...
So again, two figure differences.
Olivera said:
craigjm said:
Olivera said:
craigjm said:
The F-type is far too heavy to really compete for 911 customers
The new 992 Carrera 2S PDK unladen (EU) weight is 1590kg. The F-Type R Dynamic P380 auto book figure is 1594kg.1640kg for the 992 Carrera 4S here (Turbo I'd expect to be heavier still): https://www.porsche.com/uk/models/911/911-carrera-...
So again, two figure differences.
If you want the most accurate data, go to the website of one of the big US auto-magazines - they actually weigh the cars, not just parrot manufacturers figures as a lot of the (lazier) UK journos do.
Some quick googling gives the 992 C2S quoted as 1,515kg in a few different places, US websites included, vs a consistent 1,674kg for the P380 (google even has this as the first result), so there's 160kg difference between two direct-competitor cars, and the heavier one is the 2-seat car with the smaller boot...
I've said it before and I'll say it again, JLR make the heaviest 'lightweight architecture' cars around. Not sure where they're getting their aluminium from...
havoc said:
JLR's "book" figures have been proven time and time again to be complete bobbins.
You've made a bobbins of your research. A 1515kg figure for the C2S *exactly* corresponds to the 1590kg on the Porsche UK website minus 75kg for the driver. It's a 1590kg car at EU unladen weight.The 1674kg f type weight is for the AWD model, if you'd actually read the spec.
Autocar have a tested weight of 1614kg for the 2019 f type p380:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/jaguar/f-type...
Olivera said:
havoc said:
JLR's "book" figures have been proven time and time again to be complete bobbins.
You've made a bobbins of your research. A 1515kg figure for the C2S *exactly* corresponds to the 1590kg on the Porsche UK website minus 75kg for the driver. It's a 1590kg car at EU unladen weight.The 1674kg f type weight is for the AWD model, if you'd actually read the spec.
Autocar have a tested weight of 1614kg for the 2019 f type p380:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/jaguar/f-type...
Olivera said:
havoc said:
JLR's "book" figures have been proven time and time again to be complete bobbins.
You've made a bobbins of your research. A 1515kg figure for the C2S *exactly* corresponds to the 1590kg on the Porsche UK website minus 75kg for the driver. It's a 1590kg car at EU unladen weight.The 1674kg f type weight is for the AWD model, if you'd actually read the spec.
Autocar have a tested weight of 1614kg for the 2019 f type p380:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/jaguar/f-type...
The less-practical F-Type, like-for-like, is 100kg heavier than a 911. It's also of comparable weight to a (more powerful, more practical) M4 with the heavier DCT, despite being built off a bespoke platform* not a mainstream saloon platform.
None of this would be the end of the world if JLR's marketing department didn't regularly promote their cars as 'light weight' in some form or another...
* Except it's not, as JLR were lazy and used a cut-down X150 platform to save on development costs.
Wow one comment about weight and all of a sudden it’s become like some strange slimming world kind of argument. Anyone buying an F type over a 911 or even a Cayman /Boxster would have to be a patriotic nutter IMO regardless of having to carry round one fully grown adult man minimum in extra weight for the prize of less practicality. How Jaguar makes its alluminium cars so heavy is beyond me.
havoc said:
OK, so your reducing the difference to ONLY 100kg's invalidates the argument, does it?
It's heavier than quoted and a little heavier than perhaps what it should be.However let's put it in context to other modern high performance cars.
Evo not so long ago put all the hot saloons (M3, Alfa Quad, C63, RS4 etc) on a weigh bridge. They all were over 1700kg, some over 1800kg. I think the M3 dipped just under the 1700kg mark.
The recent Aston Vantage has been weighed over 1700kg, the Lexus RCF and LC are over 1700kg and 1800kg respectively. The 992 911 is looking like it's going to be a real world 1600kg+.
craigjm said:
Wow one comment about weight and all of a sudden it’s become like some strange slimming world kind of argument. Anyone buying an F type over a 911 or even a Cayman /Boxster would have to be a patriotic nutter IMO regardless of having to carry round one fully grown adult man minimum in extra weight for the prize of less practicality. How Jaguar makes its alluminium cars so heavy is beyond me.
I wonder that, and to make it even stranger their first aluminium car was actually quite light; I drove my 2004 XJ8 onto a weighbridge at a clients site out of curiosity. With 1/4 tank of fuel and me in it the weight was 1678KG so not far off the 1650KG book figure.Seanseansean said:
I think they definitely need a bmw 240I/Golf R/Tyre R equivalent to get some younger buyers.
I know most people my age (26) that really like the JLR brand but don’t want a SUV or saloon.
^This. The Project 8 was bonkers, an uber-example of this, but nonetheless pretty successful and a good direction to head toward for a cheaper iteration.I know most people my age (26) that really like the JLR brand but don’t want a SUV or saloon.
The XE is IMHO a really nice saloon. One of these with the new straight six engine would be superb. Just was the brand needs to lift it's image and bathe the lesser cars in the light of it's halo.
Olivera said:
havoc said:
JLR's "book" figures have been proven time and time again to be complete bobbins.
You've made a bobbins of your research. A 1515kg figure for the C2S *exactly* corresponds to the 1590kg on the Porsche UK website minus 75kg for the driver. It's a 1590kg car at EU unladen weight.The 1674kg f type weight is for the AWD model, if you'd actually read the spec.
Autocar have a tested weight of 1614kg for the 2019 f type p380:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/jaguar/f-type...
I maybe burning bridges but the part of that company I worked in was god awful anyway.
Digga said:
The XE is IMHO a really nice saloon. One of these with the new straight six engine would be superb. Just was the brand needs to lift it's image and bathe the lesser cars in the light of it's halo.
Yup agreed but the interior of the XE is crap. The interior of the XE has current XF is a step back in quality and style from the original XF and current XJ. It doesn’t feel as nice to sit in as the German lot which is a shame. The test driver said:
NVH ballast weights, sound deadening, spare tyres, tool kits anything that wouldn't be overly noticed and wasn't important to the overall operation especially if it was under a trim or cover it was fair game.
Interesting. Was this specifically so it would weigh less when it was weighed, or to make it more light on its feet on a track test? And what was the car?NickGibbs said:
Interesting. Was this specifically so it would weigh less when it was weighed, or to make it more light on its feet on a track test? And what was the car?
Having just read your occupation I'll stop there thanks.
You'll have to wait for my book, its due when i retire in about 30 years.
Well quality control is still as rubbish as ever
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/jaguar-e-pace-su...
Actually delivered to customers and then because there is “no fix” they are offering $600 compensation! Outrageous. I would be driving it straight back and getting my money back.
When are they finally going to learn how to build a car properly. To make it worse these are the cars contracted out in Austria.
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/jaguar-e-pace-su...
Actually delivered to customers and then because there is “no fix” they are offering $600 compensation! Outrageous. I would be driving it straight back and getting my money back.
When are they finally going to learn how to build a car properly. To make it worse these are the cars contracted out in Austria.
craigjm said:
Well quality control is still as rubbish as ever
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/jaguar-e-pace-su...
Actually delivered to customers and then because there is “no fix” they are offering $600 compensation! Outrageous. I would be driving it straight back and getting my money back.
When are they finally going to learn how to build a car properly. To make it worse these are the cars contracted out in Austria.
Wierd as you'd think it'd be an easy software fix. https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/jaguar-e-pace-su...
Actually delivered to customers and then because there is “no fix” they are offering $600 compensation! Outrageous. I would be driving it straight back and getting my money back.
When are they finally going to learn how to build a car properly. To make it worse these are the cars contracted out in Austria.
Maybe a licensing issue meaning the tech couldn't and cant be used in that territory? As in l, someone at JLR didn't get the licence to use whatever tech it was in the US in time for early deliveries.
janesmith1950 said:
craigjm said:
Well quality control is still as rubbish as ever
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/jaguar-e-pace-su...
Actually delivered to customers and then because there is “no fix” they are offering $600 compensation! Outrageous. I would be driving it straight back and getting my money back.
When are they finally going to learn how to build a car properly. To make it worse these are the cars contracted out in Austria.
Wierd as you'd think it'd be an easy software fix. https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/jaguar-e-pace-su...
Actually delivered to customers and then because there is “no fix” they are offering $600 compensation! Outrageous. I would be driving it straight back and getting my money back.
When are they finally going to learn how to build a car properly. To make it worse these are the cars contracted out in Austria.
Maybe a licensing issue meaning the tech couldn't and cant be used in that territory? As in l, someone at JLR didn't get the licence to use whatever tech it was in the US in time for early deliveries.
Regardless it shouldn’t happen total shambles and knocks the confidence of consumers in their quality
craigjm said:
It can’t be that because it must have been in the spec that people were expecting. My bet is on something physical missing like a wiring loom meaning that it would be too costly to put right.
Regardless it shouldn’t happen total shambles and knocks the confidence of consumers in their quality
I have something similar in my XF-S. Sold as having a TV tuner, listed on the build spec. as having a TV tuner - it just isn't there. Apparently it can't be retrofitted.Regardless it shouldn’t happen total shambles and knocks the confidence of consumers in their quality
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