JLR on 3 day week
Discussion
Can't say the news TATA has decided to offload comes as much of a surprise.
I drive past a Jaguar and Land Rover dealership on a almost daily basis and if I had £30k or £90k to spend on a new motor I wouldn't buy a Range Rover or Jaguar. They just don't look 'different'.
In the 90's when they were owned by Ford, we had a big XJ and it was a genuine luxury car, old styling and engineering but they had presence and felt special to drive.
Since TATA took over, they modernised and refreshed the brand. But they've lost what made them different from the German marques. The XE looks like a Ford Mondeo. The XF just looks like a 2010 Audi and the XJ just looks like a Citroen C6. No bad thing but they are two and three times the price.
I drive past a Jaguar and Land Rover dealership on a almost daily basis and if I had £30k or £90k to spend on a new motor I wouldn't buy a Range Rover or Jaguar. They just don't look 'different'.
In the 90's when they were owned by Ford, we had a big XJ and it was a genuine luxury car, old styling and engineering but they had presence and felt special to drive.
Since TATA took over, they modernised and refreshed the brand. But they've lost what made them different from the German marques. The XE looks like a Ford Mondeo. The XF just looks like a 2010 Audi and the XJ just looks like a Citroen C6. No bad thing but they are two and three times the price.
Edited by EarlofDrift on Friday 10th May 14:28
Jazzy Jag said:
JLR's real problems are with the incompetence of management, its corporate culture/ structure and poor product quality.
Unless PSA can change the long engrained attitudes, they will just add themselves to the growing list of companies who have tried and failed to fix JLR.
BMW gave up
Ford gave up
PSA...?
Nail. Head. The level of arrogance within that business at both a company and individual level is staggering. Unless PSA can change the long engrained attitudes, they will just add themselves to the growing list of companies who have tried and failed to fix JLR.
BMW gave up
Ford gave up
PSA...?
PSA tie up would be very interesting. It seems they have made Vauxhall profitable already and are churning out some great cars. I'll happily swap the Velar for a 308GTI!
WonkeyDonkey said:
craigjm said:
They got what they wanted from LR 20 years ago to start the X Range. They don’t need it now
That and the Mini brand.Sorry, I just edited my long post above due to typing it on my phone last night.
Another think that annoys me is the fact they offer the XEL & XFL to other markets, but not here. There are not many saloons, other than the Super, S Class, or XJ, that have decent rear leg room.
Kia in the mix now. 7 year warranty anyone?
Another think that annoys me is the fact they offer the XEL & XFL to other markets, but not here. There are not many saloons, other than the Super, S Class, or XJ, that have decent rear leg room.
Kia in the mix now. 7 year warranty anyone?
sapf0 said:
Sorry, I just edited my long post above due to typing it on my phone last night.
Another think that annoys me is the fact they offer the XEL & XFL to other markets, but not here. There are not many saloons, other than the Super, S Class, or XJ, that have decent rear leg room.
Kia in the mix now. 7 year warranty anyone?
Lots of manufacturers offer long wheelbase versions for other markets (mainly China). They won't offer them here as it could affect the upsell in the range. Not enough room in an A4? Buy the A6 etc etcAnother think that annoys me is the fact they offer the XEL & XFL to other markets, but not here. There are not many saloons, other than the Super, S Class, or XJ, that have decent rear leg room.
Kia in the mix now. 7 year warranty anyone?
Going slightly off topic, JLR's advertising on the radio has been shocking over the past few years.
"No I don't like popular vehicles, that's why I bought a Jaguar" cue engine revving
Now the Evoke ad is about discovering Birmingham? Who on earth approved those needs shooting!
Jazzy Jag said:
It would fit in with the streamlining of the workforce by 4500 to make it look leaner and more attractive.
JLR's real problems are with the incompetence of management, its corporate culture/ structure and poor product quality.
Unless PSA can change the long engrained attitudes, they will just add themselves to the growing list of companies who have tried and failed to fix JLR.
BMW gave up
Ford gave up
PSA...?
When BMW buggered off, there was a management void in LR. So they promoted a whole bunch of incompetents into positions they’d normally dream of. Those incompetents largely exist today. So yes, the majority of the management team are useless. I’ve worked there and experienced it first hand as a contractor in IT. Very laughable indeed. JLR's real problems are with the incompetence of management, its corporate culture/ structure and poor product quality.
Unless PSA can change the long engrained attitudes, they will just add themselves to the growing list of companies who have tried and failed to fix JLR.
BMW gave up
Ford gave up
PSA...?
MrBig said:
Nail. Head. The level of arrogance within that business at both a company and individual level is staggering. !
Had the misfortune to ring Stratstone service dept last week , got passed through to a call centre where I came across the most rude and condescending service advisor, he got my reg number wrong , my telephone number wrong along with my name , then when I complained that I was having to repeat myself, he had the nerve to blame me for not being clear enough.He wouldn’t answer a simple question incase he gave me the wrong answer and sued them ?
He seemed to take great pleasure in telling me it would be over a week before they could look at my car , nearly a fortnight to get a courtesy car sorted , then spent a few minutes checking how far I lived from the dealership in case I wanted the car collected.
Whole attitude was wrong from start to finish , my wife came into the car halfway through the conversation and within seconds was asking what was his problem .
Never been spoken down to in that manner for many a year , the only thing he excelled in.
Good at the job ? , never in a million years.
I would have thought the obvious thing is to build on the I Pace and go electric. For Jaguar at least. Assuming the I Pace is selling well for them. They stole a march on the Germans and can continue to out pace them. It’s not as if Jaguar has a huge existing book of business that they need to protect and carefully extract as much as possible from before it’s too late.
EarlofDrift said:
In the 90's when they were owned by Ford, we had a big XJ and it was a genuine luxury car, old styling and engineering but they had presence and felt special to drive.
Since TATA took over, they modernised and refreshed the brand. But they've lost what made them different from the German marques. The XE looks like a Ford Mondeo. The XF just looks like a 2010 Audi and the XJ just looks like a Citroen C6. No bad thing but they are two and three times the price.
We hear this nostalgic love for Jag 'old man' styling on PH often.Since TATA took over, they modernised and refreshed the brand. But they've lost what made them different from the German marques. The XE looks like a Ford Mondeo. The XF just looks like a 2010 Audi and the XJ just looks like a Citroen C6. No bad thing but they are two and three times the price.
Edited by EarlofDrift on Friday 10th May 14:28
However Jag are only interested in the opinion of those with enough money to afford a new car. The opinion of the gammon driving around in x and s type scrappers, or the very odd octagenarian in an X350 XJ, really isn't of any concern to them.
Olivera said:
We hear this nostalgic love for Jag 'old man' styling on PH often.
However Jag are only interested in the opinion of those with enough money to afford a new car. The opinion of the gammon driving around in x and s type scrappers, or the very odd octagenarian in an X350 XJ, really isn't of any concern to them.
Exactly. I have been saying this for ages. However Jag are only interested in the opinion of those with enough money to afford a new car. The opinion of the gammon driving around in x and s type scrappers, or the very odd octagenarian in an X350 XJ, really isn't of any concern to them.
Cold said:
Perhaps Jaguar should stick with making the SUV and sports car in both petrol and electric guise and drop the saloons? Works for Porsche.
Personally I think the Jaguar range should be -Small A class type hatch with an SVO 3.0 version
combined XE/XF type car in saloon, coupe and convertible
F-type replacement positioned as a Cayman Boxster rival
XJ saloon in swb XJR form with petrol engine and electric assistance
XJ LWB saloon in autobiography trim only and electric only
A new GT car to compete with Aston and Bentley
Leave the SUV’s to Land Rover and use the Land Rover volume and profits to fund it
craigjm said:
Cold said:
Perhaps Jaguar should stick with making the SUV and sports car in both petrol and electric guise and drop the saloons? Works for Porsche.
Personally I think the Jaguar range should be -Small A class type hatch with an SVO 3.0 version
combined XE/XF type car in saloon, coupe and convertible
F-type replacement positioned as a Cayman Boxster rival
XJ saloon in swb XJR form with petrol engine and electric assistance
XJ LWB saloon in autobiography trim only and electric only
A new GT car to compete with Aston and Bentley
Leave the SUV’s to Land Rover and use the Land Rover volume and profits to fund it
The only time this would happen is if it was a small vanity product or halo. But I can’t see anyone saying let’s use lr products to fund a whole jag range.
Is there even enough profit in lr to fund the range of jags you want to see?
Burwood said:
Serious question and I’d love to buy one but can’t due to perceived reliability. And that is the general theme. Why is that. Why are they a bit unreliable/hit and miss. Why is it so hard to make a car that doesn’t break down or have so many niggles.
The German brands are just as worse. Try working for the Volkswagen Group at the moment. It’s truly awful.Mercedes are still not great. BMW are the best of the bunch and even they are having nightmares with EGR cooler recalls.
The difference is the British are self deprecating and the Germans are astute enough not to slag their cars off.
Flumpo said:
craigjm said:
Cold said:
Perhaps Jaguar should stick with making the SUV and sports car in both petrol and electric guise and drop the saloons? Works for Porsche.
Personally I think the Jaguar range should be -Small A class type hatch with an SVO 3.0 version
combined XE/XF type car in saloon, coupe and convertible
F-type replacement positioned as a Cayman Boxster rival
XJ saloon in swb XJR form with petrol engine and electric assistance
XJ LWB saloon in autobiography trim only and electric only
A new GT car to compete with Aston and Bentley
Leave the SUV’s to Land Rover and use the Land Rover volume and profits to fund it
The only time this would happen is if it was a small vanity product or halo. But I can’t see anyone saying let’s use lr products to fund a whole jag range.
Is there even enough profit in lr to fund the range of jags you want to see?
The Jag range is no good, bar the F-Type. They’ve missed a trick with Jag; the saloons are all bland and average.
The LR range is good and the new Defender should satisfy the Disco 3 / 4 crowd who feel let down with the new Disco which is basically a Range Rover.
I thought, but might be wrong, that PSA already made engines for the LR range pre the self made Ingenium line. And of course the Ford born units like the 2.2. My Discovery engine, I think, is PSA.
So PSA already has history with LR in this regard?
PSA brands are really doing well and the new Peugeot line all seem very good. I’ve sat in a couple and was impressed. None of their SUV’s are 4wd though - and the Vauxhall Grandland X is a Peugeot underneath but they push the “British brand” angle. PSA seem good at telling people / giving people what they want... why make 4Wd SUV’s when the average Joe doesn’t need it or even know what it’s all about. Save the money on drivetrain and implementation and the customers will still lap it up. My only worry with PSA is that they’d compromise on the LR technology / 4WD systems and related tech. Otherwise they are probably a good match.
The LR range is good and the new Defender should satisfy the Disco 3 / 4 crowd who feel let down with the new Disco which is basically a Range Rover.
I thought, but might be wrong, that PSA already made engines for the LR range pre the self made Ingenium line. And of course the Ford born units like the 2.2. My Discovery engine, I think, is PSA.
So PSA already has history with LR in this regard?
PSA brands are really doing well and the new Peugeot line all seem very good. I’ve sat in a couple and was impressed. None of their SUV’s are 4wd though - and the Vauxhall Grandland X is a Peugeot underneath but they push the “British brand” angle. PSA seem good at telling people / giving people what they want... why make 4Wd SUV’s when the average Joe doesn’t need it or even know what it’s all about. Save the money on drivetrain and implementation and the customers will still lap it up. My only worry with PSA is that they’d compromise on the LR technology / 4WD systems and related tech. Otherwise they are probably a good match.
Fast Bug said:
Going slightly off topic, JLR's advertising on the radio has been shocking over the past few years.
"No I don't like popular vehicles, that's why I bought a Jaguar" cue engine revving
.....Who on earth approved those needs shooting!
Couldn't agree more. In a world where perceived luxury brands are plastered all over twit face book and it would seem that popularity and peer approval is the measure of the day, JLR's choosen approach is to say your mates won't like this car, but you should think about it."No I don't like popular vehicles, that's why I bought a Jaguar" cue engine revving
.....Who on earth approved those needs shooting!
Mental.
Previous said:
Fast Bug said:
Going slightly off topic, JLR's advertising on the radio has been shocking over the past few years.
"No I don't like popular vehicles, that's why I bought a Jaguar" cue engine revving
.....Who on earth approved those needs shooting!
Couldn't agree more. In a world where perceived luxury brands are plastered all over twit face book and it would seem that popularity and peer approval is the measure of the day, JLR's choosen approach is to say your mates won't like this car, but you should think about it."No I don't like popular vehicles, that's why I bought a Jaguar" cue engine revving
.....Who on earth approved those needs shooting!
Mental.
It was ...
the car that "they" don't want you to drive .
So no one did.
Jazzy Jag said:
Previous said:
Fast Bug said:
Going slightly off topic, JLR's advertising on the radio has been shocking over the past few years.
"No I don't like popular vehicles, that's why I bought a Jaguar" cue engine revving
.....Who on earth approved those needs shooting!
Couldn't agree more. In a world where perceived luxury brands are plastered all over twit face book and it would seem that popularity and peer approval is the measure of the day, JLR's choosen approach is to say your mates won't like this car, but you should think about it."No I don't like popular vehicles, that's why I bought a Jaguar" cue engine revving
.....Who on earth approved those needs shooting!
Mental.
It was ...
the car that "they" don't want you to drive .
So no one did.
Olivera said:
We hear this nostalgic love for Jag 'old man' styling on PH often.
However Jag are only interested in the opinion of those with enough money to afford a new car. The opinion of the gammon driving around in x and s type scrappers, or the very odd octagenarian in an X350 XJ, really isn't of any concern to them.
And how is their current styling working out for them?!?However Jag are only interested in the opinion of those with enough money to afford a new car. The opinion of the gammon driving around in x and s type scrappers, or the very odd octagenarian in an X350 XJ, really isn't of any concern to them.
(BTW, the person you quoted said they had an X350 back when the X350 was the current model, so they MAY, just possibly, have been a new car buyer then...)
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