RE: Toyota Supra prototype: Driven

RE: Toyota Supra prototype: Driven

Thursday 20th September 2018

Toyota Supra prototype | PH Review

First go in the new Supra suggests all is well with Toyota's much anticipated Porsche Cayman rival



Do we know much more about the new Toyota Supra yet? Officially, no. It's still eight months or so from production, so hidden inside and out until January, there are very few released numbers.

Those that have been released include that the new Supra, which shares its architecture with the upcoming BMW Z4, has a 50:50 weight distribution, a 3.0-litre straight six petrol engine, turbocharged, driving the back wheels through an eight-speed auto gearbox and limited-slip differential.

Despite the engine's intrinsic tallness compared to the flat-four in a GT86 Toyota says the centre of gravity is lower here, while the body's torsional rigidity, despite being steel and aluminium and with not a hint of carbon fibre in it, is higher than a Lexus LFA's. More numbers will come when the car is unveiled at the Detroit motor show in January.


Before all of that, though, we've had a go in a pretty late stage prototype, dazzle camo'd outside and bagged over the obviously-BMW switchgear inside; and with a minder in the passenger seat at all times.

That means I can't lift the lid on the drapery and see where the BMW stuff stops and the Toyota stuff begins, but there's iDrive, BMW column stalks and gear selector and heating and ventilation switches, and a very BMW feel to the driving position too - low and straight - but a Toyota-face on the instrument binnacle.

The window line is high and you're looking through a letterbox windscreen, a bit like in an Audi TT, with the curved body around you heading off unseen into the distance. A Porsche 718 Cayman therefore feels smaller than this, I think, which presumably it is. No word on that either, yet, although the track is around 1600mm and the wheelbase approximately 2440mm.


Get under way and it's pretty clear where the engine and gearbox comes from, too. The BMW straight six is so smooth, revs easily and never seems to mind doing it. I'd guess at 340hp and 350lb ft, driving through a ZF automatic 'box.

There's a bit more induction noise to be gleaned before production, says Toyota, but a flap in the exhaust if you enter Sport mode - which firms up the steering, dampers and drivetrain response of this car - makes the note harder.

Standard Supras will have passive dampers and Toyota would like a manual 'box at some point too. I suspect more versions, slower and faster than this one, so it's clear the drip-feed of info won't stop even when the 3.0 goes on sale next June, at around £50,000.


On adaptive dampers it rides well, better than a BMW M4, say, whose tyre sizes are similar: there are bespoke Michelin Pilot Super Sports of 255/35 R19 at the front and 275/35 R19 at the rear. The weight is approximately 1500kg.

Toyota says 90% of development work has been on the road, with 10% on the track, and that's how the Supra's bias feels too. There's a good underlying compliance to it, and with very smooth steering, and the inherent stability of a front engine, it feels more mature than, say, an Alpine A110, while I'm sure it's more pliant than a BMW M2 Competition.

On a country road, though, you can begin to push the boundaries of the standard suspension settings. Some sharpness to the steering around straight ahead enhances the car's natural handling balance, but because of where the engine is, the Supra's maturity will never have it feeling quite as agile as an A110 or 718 Cayman. I think an M2 Competition feels more alert and precise, too, owing to how its tied down.


Stiffen the Supra's dampers, though, and body control tightens well without destroying the ride: this is one of those cars whose engineers, not marketing execs, seem to have been left in control of how harsh the buttons make things. There's a pleasing, reassuring handling balance to the Supra in its sportier mode. It feels a bit Aston Martin Vantagey; a bit of understeer on the way in, a bit of oversteer on the way out. GT car imitating sports car well, rather than being out-and-out sportster.

On the same road - owing to the minder and that there were two journalists to a car - I was sometimes following in a Toyota GT86. Toyota has said it would like the Supra to feel like a bigger '86. In its inherent balance it does. But getting into the much lighter car you remember the advantages of the fact that it's more than a quarter-tonne to the good.

On a circuit, where we get a good few laps with stability control set to half-off, it's clear that the Supra's chassis can handle more power, and that its balance is terrific. I drive all of that with the suspension stiffened, but there's still compliance over bumps and kerbs.


It doesn't rotate on turn-in as willingly as, say, a Cayman or, from my limited experience, an Alpine A110, but that's not surprising given where the engine is. There's enough power to feel it beginning to straighten the car on corner exit, but what happens beyond that will have to wait until another time. Body control's tight, though, and the people behind the '86 are behind this so I suspect it's a giggle when it lets go.

Half a dozen laps or more later, though, it still feels happy on a circuit, having not worn through its steel discs, and offering good playfulness the more you push it. It's a mature daily car that is far from out of its depth on a track.

Four years ago you wouldn't have thought anything could go up against a 718 Cayman and beat it. But pretty soon it'll sit in a class that also includes the Alpine A110, BMW M2 Competition and this new Toyota Supra. The Cayman could yet be anywhere between first and last in that company. I'm not sure we've ever had it so good.


SPECIFICATION - TOYOTA SUPRA
Engine:
3.0 6cyl turbo petrol
Transmission: Eight-speed auto, rear-wheel drive
Power: 340hp@5500rpm (est)
Torque: 350lb ft@2500rpm (est)
0-62mph: 4.8sec (est)
Top speed: 170mph (est)
Weight: 1500kg (est)
MPG: 31mpg (est)
CO2: 225g/km (est)
Price: £50,000 (est)

 










Author
Discussion

Jag_NE

Original Poster:

2,978 posts

100 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
I’m not anti bmw at all but it seems a shame that Toyota chose not to do this fully in house.

IntriguedUser

989 posts

121 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
Absolutely no interest at all. Have more interest in the yaris GRMN.

I know it's a silly thing butnisnt this just a bmw z4?

tomwoodis

570 posts

184 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
Love the whale tail type rear spoiler, not so sure about the front, doesn’t look the prettiest.

vz-r_dave

3,469 posts

218 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
I thought the ZF box was a Lexus/Toyota one? Am I wrong as the article seems to state its from BMW?

For those complaining about it sharing so much of the Z4, from the article it seems suspension and chassis wise that it has been changed significantly.

Pending the final product I might actually buy one of these.

Krikkit

26,527 posts

181 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
Can we have one in that dazzle wrap? Looks better than the release pictures as you can't see the fugly. biggrin

red_slr

17,231 posts

189 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
To be a proper Supra it needs to be on a par with the base 911, which its not. IMHO. It needs to be special. The last TT was special because of the 2JZ. I don't see anything special about this.

BricktopST205

900 posts

134 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
Jag_NE said:
I’m not anti bmw at all but it seems a shame that Toyota chose not to do this fully in house.
Aye i hope it is more Toyota than BMW. When Toyota put their mind to it they are world beaters. After all BMW are a drop in the ocean compared to Toyota.

TaylotS2K

1,964 posts

207 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
This seems to have been in development for yonks.

anonymous-user

54 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
Fantastic, and has to be better than that butt ugly looking Renault A110 ! smile

cvega

405 posts

159 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
that's a weird looking z4

TartanPaint

2,988 posts

139 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
Lots of potential to make a great car with its own character, despite the shared platform. A manual box, passive damping, and better brakes/steering... there's no need for this to end up identical to the Z4 apart from the badge. Plenty room for differentiation, and I really can't wait to see if they can pull it off.

BMW know exactly what they need to deliver to their customers, and I think we all know that's going to disappoint any driving enthusiast. The Supra however has no such limitations, and maybe quite the opposite. I really hope this becomes something I want to own. Sure as hell, a 718, Z4, A110 are not getting my money. Lotus would get my money if the Evora had another inch of headroom. The Supra might just be the car for me!






KillianB4

150 posts

111 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
red_slr said:
To be a proper Supra it needs to be on a par with the base 911, which its not. IMHO. It needs to be special. The last TT was special because of the 2JZ. I don't see anything special about this.
You can be sure that someone will have dropped a 2JZ into one of these within 12 months of it's release.

Ikobo

511 posts

149 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
Even with the wrap it’s better looking than the Z4 it shares a platform with.

Frimley111R

15,656 posts

234 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
Jag_NE said:
I’m not anti bmw at all but it seems a shame that Toyota chose not to do this fully in house.
I guess its all about costs to produce. The market for sports cars is small (and, I think, getting smaller) so production runs are relatively small leading to small profits, if any.

KillianB4

150 posts

111 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
Frimley111R said:
I guess its all about costs to produce. The market for sports cars is small (and, I think, getting smaller) so production runs are relatively small leading to small profits, if any.
That's exactly what it is and it's not uncommon really is it. Toyota and BMW have had a working relationship for a while. I'm not against it at all. Yes we'd love a 2J in it or whatever but lets face it BMW have been getting blown straight 6s through emission regs for a while now and thats why it has that engine. As for the rest, I have driven a Yaris GRMN and if the same guys who set that up are involved in the chassis of the Supra, then it's a thumbs up from me. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a hardcore variant also and perhaps an entry 4pot turbo like the F Type has (and of course the Cayman is a 4cyl these days). Are we definitely getting a manual? Surely theres plenty of BMW manual boxes that will bolt straight on.

I am iffy on the looks of the front end but lets see how it looks come production. But I think this car will sell well. How long until they have one GT3 racing do we reckon?

E65Ross

35,075 posts

212 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
vz-r_dave said:
I thought the ZF box was a Lexus/Toyota one? Am I wrong as the article seems to state its from BMW?

For those complaining about it sharing so much of the Z4, from the article it seems suspension and chassis wise that it has been changed significantly.

Pending the final product I might actually buy one of these.
I'm pretty sure the ZF box is a ZF box, utilised by many manufacturers....?

indapendentlee

401 posts

99 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
50 grand for a Z4 with a toyota badge on it?

No thank you.

spikyone

1,451 posts

100 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
KillianB4 said:
I am iffy on the looks of the front end but lets see how it looks come production. But I think this car will sell well. How long until they have one GT3 racing do we reckon?
Are they planning on going GT3 with it? It's almost certain to end up in SuperGT anyway, but it'd be good to see it on some tracks outside the far east. Castrol livery, please Toyota...

Unlike some posters, I really like the design of this. It still looks like a Supra, but without ripping off a previous generation like the Mustang/Camaro/A110/Fiat 124 etc. And unlike its BMW sibling, it doesn't look like anything else in the model range either. The rear fog/reverse light is a lovely race car touch. The only minor criticism I have is that the front wheel arch gap looks huge in some of those photos. Hopefully it will work well on British roads.

spikyone

1,451 posts

100 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
indapendentlee said:
50 grand for a Z4 with a toyota badge on it?

No thank you.
I thought school holidays were over now?

seefarr

1,467 posts

186 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
red_slr said:
The last TT was special because of the 2JZ.
The 2JZ was a legendary engine for tuning, but don't discount BMW straight 6 turbo units. They rev higher, make more power, are more responsive and use less fuel. Win!