RE: Toyota Supra prototype: Driven
Discussion
F1GTRUeno said:
It's just a shame they didn't go full supercar and make the FT-1 instead. The styling cues are there but the FT-1 looks incredible whereas the Supra just looks a bit weedy.
Because those people with £150-200k have a lot of choice and a Toyota isn't really going to tempt?Toyota to most people is the manufacturer of anonymous, bland tinny hatchbacks and crap saloons. They've been out of the performance market too long.
What a lot of folks don’t know is that Toyota and BMW were quite smart here..they realized they needed to make the chassis very stiff, because fast heavy cars cannnot be made to handle well without this remit. If it’s more rigid than a LFA which is just under 40.000nm/deg in torsional rigidity, then they made a car that is in the same range as all the Porsches. Indeed hi strength steel and aluminum seem to be hitting their stride these days as a material that is more effective for sedan type structures than is full carbon. Only issue with the Toyota is they cheaped out a bit by getting to such a number, by basically making the entire rear of the car a steel dome with a little box looking out. At least with Porsche you get the rigidity from low down, so visibility doesn’t suffer. Porsche have the most advanced chassis anywhere, this side of Bugatti.
Btw this Toyota will likely turn out to be a better/lighter more rigid sports car than the Aston Vantage, as they had a lot more money to invest in it. J
Btw this Toyota will likely turn out to be a better/lighter more rigid sports car than the Aston Vantage, as they had a lot more money to invest in it. J
Edited by jl4069 on Thursday 20th September 19:35
the estimated stats look poor a long with the price tag and it just reminds me of a gt86 clone. Supras should look special but this car seems to lack that specialness..I'd just be worried about this having a BMW engine and suffering from leaking seals and gaskets all over the engine after 5 years :-(
Apart from that, I'd also like to see a minimum of 460hp (510+ would be nice, but as it's a bit lighter than some others, 460 would do).
Oh, and back seats for the shopping bags and occasional lift.
Apart from that, I'd also like to see a minimum of 460hp (510+ would be nice, but as it's a bit lighter than some others, 460 would do).
Oh, and back seats for the shopping bags and occasional lift.
NITO said:
The Mkiv supra was a GT car. It could fit adults in the back at a push and certainly 3 adults no problem and kids easily, like the R34, R33,R32, 3000GTO and 300ZX.
Somewhere along the line their replacements have offered pathetic tokenistic seats that you can just about chuck a bag in. This has allegedly a shorter wheelbase than the GT86!
If the market wants sub 1500kg ‘sports’ cars, to me the mkiv was a sports car but it seems in the days of pigeon holeing everything it is considered a heavyweight GT car, whatever, it was a high performance car that would embarass contemporary supercars and do it with added practicality.
The 350z was a lame successor to the 300ZX, losing 2 turbos and 2 seats in the process, the GTR thankfully kept the 2+2 layout but sacrificed pretty much all the legroom and headroom. This looks to have gone the same way but it has retained the GTR spirit and character.
This isn’t the same genre car that the outgoing Supra was. It’s not particularly high performance though I accept the aftermarket will change that but personally I wouldn’t bother. For me it falls into the media type/hairdresser lightweight ooh ooh 2 seater hair dryer category that the mx-5, elise, Alfa 4c etc do. It’s not a manly GT car, it’s a lightweight. The GT86 is an emasculated sports car, granted it might have wonderful chassis balance and provide sporty feel at low speed, whoopee, I’d rather be trying to tame a beast. The GT2, 575’s, GTR, C63s, M4, these are cars I would expect a revived Supra to have it’s sights set on. They’ve aimed low and provided a car that’s basically a GT86+ with added gusto.
Nissan at least tackled the GTR with a clean sheet brief and they have sold in vast numbers. That is the market the supra should have been tapping into based on the outgoing model. Toyota can do what they like, I won’t be buying one despite being the perfect owner profile for a proper new supra, it doesn’t even interest me from what I have seen so far, we have two toyotas on the drive currently and neither have equivalent replacements available to the outgoing models. Toyota can go green as they like and keep on producing Priii. They no longer produce cars that interest me, a pity as my local dealer is outstanding and have looked after us for years. Mercedes are now the prospective replacements for this void providing cars that meet the enthusiasts brief and we have two of these already in the stable, shame the dealers and network are not a patch!
I kind of agree. When I got my used XFR it just totally reminded me of my Supras from the past (I had a UK twin turbo and then a facelift jap import twin turbo). They felt big and powerful. To be fair they were only 326hp ftom the factory though. This should have inflated naturally to ~450 hp.Somewhere along the line their replacements have offered pathetic tokenistic seats that you can just about chuck a bag in. This has allegedly a shorter wheelbase than the GT86!
If the market wants sub 1500kg ‘sports’ cars, to me the mkiv was a sports car but it seems in the days of pigeon holeing everything it is considered a heavyweight GT car, whatever, it was a high performance car that would embarass contemporary supercars and do it with added practicality.
The 350z was a lame successor to the 300ZX, losing 2 turbos and 2 seats in the process, the GTR thankfully kept the 2+2 layout but sacrificed pretty much all the legroom and headroom. This looks to have gone the same way but it has retained the GTR spirit and character.
This isn’t the same genre car that the outgoing Supra was. It’s not particularly high performance though I accept the aftermarket will change that but personally I wouldn’t bother. For me it falls into the media type/hairdresser lightweight ooh ooh 2 seater hair dryer category that the mx-5, elise, Alfa 4c etc do. It’s not a manly GT car, it’s a lightweight. The GT86 is an emasculated sports car, granted it might have wonderful chassis balance and provide sporty feel at low speed, whoopee, I’d rather be trying to tame a beast. The GT2, 575’s, GTR, C63s, M4, these are cars I would expect a revived Supra to have it’s sights set on. They’ve aimed low and provided a car that’s basically a GT86+ with added gusto.
Nissan at least tackled the GTR with a clean sheet brief and they have sold in vast numbers. That is the market the supra should have been tapping into based on the outgoing model. Toyota can do what they like, I won’t be buying one despite being the perfect owner profile for a proper new supra, it doesn’t even interest me from what I have seen so far, we have two toyotas on the drive currently and neither have equivalent replacements available to the outgoing models. Toyota can go green as they like and keep on producing Priii. They no longer produce cars that interest me, a pity as my local dealer is outstanding and have looked after us for years. Mercedes are now the prospective replacements for this void providing cars that meet the enthusiasts brief and we have two of these already in the stable, shame the dealers and network are not a patch!
It just doesn't stop me looking at used F- types. And 225g/km, isn't that £500 road tax? Mercedes and Alfa are making 500hp cars that cost ~200 in road tax..
KJH said:
the US
When all's said and done this is what Toyota will be bothered about. While we on PH are dribbling on about manual gearboxes, what Supras were like back in the good old days, and how it should have a million bhp, over in the States (where they like cars that work), they'll be selling these hand over fist.Ares said:
BricktopST205 said:
When Toyota put their mind to it they are world beaters. After all BMW are a drop in the ocean compared to Toyota.
Really? World beaters at the mundane with the odd flash of brilliance perhaps?First Japanese team to crush European opposition in the WRC that paved the way for the other Japanese brands.
They have been very fast and also very unlucky in sports car racing as well.
LFA was pretty much the best supercar around when it was released.
As a car company they dwarf near enough every one. It takes a collective of VAG to even get close. Yes they might not be a popular maker here but they make some fascinating stuff for other markets. Land Cruiser is in a league of its own for example but the demographic doesn't want it here. Their investment in hybrid technology has paid dividends as people finally wake up to how bad diesels are.
Edited by BricktopST205 on Friday 21st September 16:12
BricktopST205 said:
Ares said:
BricktopST205 said:
When Toyota put their mind to it they are world beaters. After all BMW are a drop in the ocean compared to Toyota.
Really? World beaters at the mundane with the odd flash of brilliance perhaps?First Japanese team to crush European opposition in the WRC that paved the way for the other Japanese brands.
They have been very fast and also very unlucky in sports car racing as well.
As a car company they dwarf near enough every one. It takes a collective of VAG to even get close. Yes they might not be a popular maker here but they make some fascinating stuff for other markets. Land Cruiser is in a league of its own for example but the demographic doesn't want it here. Their investment in hybrid technology has paid dividends as people finally wake up to how bad diesels are.
WRC/Rallying - 3 world titles since 1975
Yes - they are (just) the largest motor manufacturer, and driven the Hybrid market, but the bulk of that is very unexciting boxes. To say that BMW are a drop in the ocean in comparison is naive or disingenuous.
Mackofthejungle said:
It's just a Z4 really. Fine I guess. Nobody would care if it wasn't called a supra. And even then, they're only remembering the aftermarket ones. At the time it was pretty much a massively overweight retirees coupe.
More on the Jimny please.
" At the time it was pretty much a massively overweight retirees coupe"More on the Jimny please.
Perhaps the UK market MK3, certainly not the MK4, which outperformed the Supercars of its day, and held a stopping distance record for around a decade, which was only just beaten by the Porsche Carrera GT!
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