RE: Toyota Supra prototype: Driven
Discussion
rare6499 said:
This looks superb. Of course, it will be way out of my league but it looks like Toyota have built a better BMW than...BMW...even if it’s based on a BMW. Does that make sense?
Excluding the fact that the BMW version will have never set foot in a BMW factory as Magna are building it in Austria. I highly suspect we will see the Toyota version also coming out there not any Toyota factory.rare6499 said:
This looks superb. Of course, it will be way out of my league but it looks like Toyota have built a better BMW than...BMW...even if it’s based on a BMW. Does that make sense?
Agreed.Overhangs look so much better than the BMW even in the camo. Would rather have this than the Z4 on first impressions, and I'm currently driving an M3...
Also the possibility of a manual!
Hmmmm… Seems a tad too dainty.
Is Toyota playing too safe here? Going up against the Cayman or 370z seems less of a challenge / risky than say Nissan taking on the 911 with the GTR and Honda HSX versus exotic supercars.
It feels a bit like this is the car the GT86 “could” have been?
OR has Lexus providing the halo cars, relegated the Supra name to a lower performance level / different ethos? Perhaps we should consign, big turbo, mega-lag and lots of medallions to the history book.
Is Toyota playing too safe here? Going up against the Cayman or 370z seems less of a challenge / risky than say Nissan taking on the 911 with the GTR and Honda HSX versus exotic supercars.
It feels a bit like this is the car the GT86 “could” have been?
OR has Lexus providing the halo cars, relegated the Supra name to a lower performance level / different ethos? Perhaps we should consign, big turbo, mega-lag and lots of medallions to the history book.
vz-r_dave said:
indapendentlee said:
50 grand for a Z4 with a toyota badge on it?
No thank you.
Coming from someone who owns a Mini and probably the ugliest Mercedes ever made..... good job! No thank you.
The profile looks more like a Z4 than the Z4 does.
Hard to be sure with that wrap on it but to me, the detailing looks like it's going to end up less fussy than the BMW version. I'm not convinced by the headlights extending so far towards the centreline of the car, though. I'm not sure if the hardtop helps the rather dumpy profile and short wheelbase or hinders it compared to the BMW.
All in all I think I'd go for the BMW. If I'm going to own a big heavy GT car with sporting pretensions, I'd rather sacrifice a bit of chassis rigidity for the ability to take the roof off. I rather suspect I'd take the SLC over either of them if I was in the market for this sort of car.
Hard to be sure with that wrap on it but to me, the detailing looks like it's going to end up less fussy than the BMW version. I'm not convinced by the headlights extending so far towards the centreline of the car, though. I'm not sure if the hardtop helps the rather dumpy profile and short wheelbase or hinders it compared to the BMW.
All in all I think I'd go for the BMW. If I'm going to own a big heavy GT car with sporting pretensions, I'd rather sacrifice a bit of chassis rigidity for the ability to take the roof off. I rather suspect I'd take the SLC over either of them if I was in the market for this sort of car.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 19th September 11:09
Phil Dicky said:
vz-r_dave said:
indapendentlee said:
50 grand for a Z4 with a toyota badge on it?
No thank you.
Coming from someone who owns a Mini and probably the ugliest Mercedes ever made..... good job! No thank you.
spikyone said:
Are they planning on going GT3 with it? It's almost certain to end up in SuperGT anyway, but it'd be good to see it on some tracks outside the far east. Castrol livery, please Toyota...
Unlike some posters, I really like the design of this. It still looks like a Supra, but without ripping off a previous generation like the Mustang/Camaro/A110/Fiat 124 etc. And unlike its BMW sibling, it doesn't look like anything else in the model range either. The rear fog/reverse light is a lovely race car touch. The only minor criticism I have is that the front wheel arch gap looks huge in some of those photos. Hopefully it will work well on British roads.
I haven't seen anything saying they will but i'd say its a fair bet. Perhaps someone will run them in the Blancpain GT3 series at least. SuperGT is guaranteed I'd say. With you on the Castrol livery!!!Unlike some posters, I really like the design of this. It still looks like a Supra, but without ripping off a previous generation like the Mustang/Camaro/A110/Fiat 124 etc. And unlike its BMW sibling, it doesn't look like anything else in the model range either. The rear fog/reverse light is a lovely race car touch. The only minor criticism I have is that the front wheel arch gap looks huge in some of those photos. Hopefully it will work well on British roads.
vz-r_dave said:
Phil Dicky said:
vz-r_dave said:
indapendentlee said:
50 grand for a Z4 with a toyota badge on it?
No thank you.
Coming from someone who owns a Mini and probably the ugliest Mercedes ever made..... good job! No thank you.
KillianB4 said:
red_slr said:
To be a proper Supra it needs to be on a par with the base 911, which its not. IMHO. It needs to be special. The last TT was special because of the 2JZ. I don't see anything special about this.
You can be sure that someone will have dropped a 2JZ into one of these within 12 months of it's release.red_slr said:
To be a proper Supra it needs to be on a par with the base 911, which its not. IMHO. It needs to be special. The last TT was special because of the 2JZ. I don't see anything special about this.
+1A guy at work had a MkIV for a long time. It was the twin turbo 6-speed and he brought it along to a few track days.
At pre-bubble prices the MkIV was great value for money and at the time of production the target model was the established european GT cars, such as the 911.
This new effort by Toyota has very much targeted the wrong market IMO. The Supra had developed in to a well rounded GT car with the MkIV; now re-inventing it as what Toyota are describing as a "pure sports car" is in effect ignoring what made the Supra the iconic machine it became.
Toyota say their target market competition is now the Caymen. That is not what the market is looking for in my opinion. There is a large gap, from what I can see, for a capable slick looking GT car to fit in an affordable price range under the 911 (M4 price range in effect). Instead they gone for a "pure sports car" which is Lotus territory, whereby it simply won't compete. And to be honest, who is going to buy a bulky looking Toyota over a Caymen if you are looking for that type of experience?
So if its not a GT car, it looks like it will instantly fail at being a "pure sports car", then its nothing more than a new brand of 370Z or some other "hair dresser" effort
(a bit harsh, but I was expecting much more from Toyota)I've kept up with a lot of the marketing hype surrounding this new release and Toyota say they've done their market research to ensure forecourt sales.
The worrying thing is, is that market research generally only focuses on the typical new car buyer, and in recent times these have not been your typical driver enthusiast types.
So unfortunately I think Toyota have missed the mark big time with this design and were on the wrong path from pretty much the concept stage.
Although the FT-01 did look promising. The production model looks bulky, too high, too thin, too plain, lacks purpose, under powered, no driver enthusiast option of a manual gear box, bland.....and so on.
seefarr said:
red_slr said:
The last TT was special because of the 2JZ.
The 2JZ was a legendary engine for tuning, but don't discount BMW straight 6 turbo units. They rev higher, make more power, are more responsive and use less fuel. Win!It might not match the eye watering outputs of a well tuned 2JZ or an RB26, but it would still appear to be a promising base for tuning.
Edited by Limpet on Wednesday 19th September 11:40
spikyone said:
KillianB4 said:
I am iffy on the looks of the front end but lets see how it looks come production. But I think this car will sell well. How long until they have one GT3 racing do we reckon?
Are they planning on going GT3 with it? It's almost certain to end up in SuperGT anyway, but it'd be good to see it on some tracks outside the far east. Castrol livery, please Toyota...Limpet said:
I agree. The B58 has already been proven to be able to deliver in the order of 420 bhp with great driveability and reliability (so far) and that's with a £400 plug-in tuning box on a completely bog standard engine. The limit beyond this is currently down to fuelling, due to a hard coded fuel limit in the ECU, causing the engine to start to run lean at higher boost levels. . Once the tuning industry gets to grips with this (and it will), most people seem to think these will be capable of knocking on the door of 500 bhp on standard internals without any major problems. It has forged rods and crankshaft, and a closed deck block, which suggest a fundamentally strong bottom end.
It might not be a 2JZ or an RB26, but it would still appear to be a promising base for tuning.
There were rumours too that the Supra might get a CGI (Compacted Graphite Iron) block version of the B58. If true I'd suspect that would be for the higher performance version further down the line, but could potentially take some big boost.It might not be a 2JZ or an RB26, but it would still appear to be a promising base for tuning.
red_slr said:
To be a proper Supra it needs to be on a par with the base 911, which its not. IMHO. It needs to be special. The last TT was special because of the 2JZ. I don't see anything special about this.
this.1991 Carrera - 247hp
1991 Supra Turbo - 280hp
2018 Carrera 370hp
2018 Supra 350hp....
well I've actually gone against my point here, presumed the latest base 911's were much much powerful! nevermind
I haven't been to school for a couple of decades at least and my immediate thought was that £50k was a lot for this. I'm not bothered about the badge as I loved my Nissan 350Z, but to truly be a viable Cayman rival (As they don't have the "Porsche badge", then surely these need to be priced aggressively in comparison. £50k gets you a base spec 718 with some nice options or a poverty spec S. I can't see either of the Z4/Supra being better... but no proper details on this yet. I don't think they will be £20k better than a 370Z Nismo anyway.
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