RE: Lancia Delta HF Integrale: PH Used Buying Guide

[Phil Dicky]

sprintevo said:

Heres mine at one of the Cholmondley Pub meets Hillclimb and fast road spec and for sale at £40,000

That's a bit nice. standard colour and wheels ?

[bloomen]

I owned several before they became classics and rotboxes. Great cars. No way do I think they're worth what people are trying to get for them, not that it matters what I think.

Evo 1 is the sweet spot. 16vs have crashy suspension and st brakes and lights. Evo 2s have less comfortable seats and mysterious premium. I can't say I ever noticed the smaller turbo.

Considering how many I came across had shell issues when they were 5-10 years old I wonder what they'll be like now. One guy I knew completely bent his entire shell hitting a kerb with a bit too much vigour.

[DeejRC]

The ability of Walkers to relieve you of money is almost without rival in the UK - and that includes Porsche dealerships!

They do however, return to you a most beautifully sorted motor car. That mid December '08 thrash back across the snowy Yorkshire moors after picking mine up remains to this day one of my stand out drives.

[viggyp]

Behemoth said:

millen said:

Was serviced by that knowledgeable old boy who ran a Lancia spares emporiumnear Kennington/ Elephant & Castle. Name escapes me but thought he retired to Corsica and sadly expired soon after.

Barry. Really amenable & genuine. I remember his place under the arches well.

Yeah. I think Barry's name was Waterhouse? He had a black Evo nicknamed Stealth if memory serves me well.

[viggyp]

deltashad said:

rtz62 said:

Twoshoe said:

fushion julz said:

A coffin has 5 sides and a lid

6 surely?

6, a kid and a bottom, which may prove to be apt as that is where the prices can drop if interest rates change etc (that’s a subject mulled over recently on here by people with bigger brains than I !)
Personally I don’t see the sense in £20k+ Escort Mexico’s and £50k Lancias
Dealers are artificially pushing the prices upwards, I wonder how many of the cars they advertise actually sell for what they are asking and how many get pushed around other dealers.

Quick Google search.. escort mexico 66k. Hmmm... Integrale is pure work of art. I like the escort but 66k? That's the fordy market. Prices hiked up by 70s throw back moustaches and medallions. Cosworths just as bad from ex max power magazine chavs trying to relive their memories from days past in car parks blasting rave music popping acid tabs dressed in designer track suits. Just having a laugh...

40K is a bargain considering a S1 Escort RS Turbo (albeit mint with very low miles) went for over 60K......and that has a rubbish engine.

My mate who is Italian car mad ever since he bought my Mk1 Uno Turbo years back was a proper Ford RS fan and had 3 Mk1 Escorts. He can't believe how much they have gone up and has said that the 105 series GTV is much better value and a better car.

[Behemoth]

viggyp said:

Yeah. I think Barry's name was Waterhouse? He had a black Evo nicknamed Stealth if memory serves me well.

Yes, iirc that car was a 16v. Barry was the most charismatic garage owner I've ever met. He should have had his own TV show & it's a shame YouTube wasn't yet a thing back then - a Lancia channel by him would have been sthg to really cherish. I was sad when he died, but at least he got to enjoy retirement in Corsica for a little while.

[viggyp]

Behemoth said:

viggyp said:

Yeah. I think Barry's name was Waterhouse? He had a black Evo nicknamed Stealth if memory serves me well.

Yes, iirc that car was a 16v. Barry was the most charismatic garage owner I've ever met. He should have had his own TV show & it's a shame YouTube wasn't yet a thing back then - a Lancia channel by him would have been sthg to really cherish. I was sad when he died, but at least he got to enjoy retirement in Corsica for a little while.

Yes, you're right but can't remember if it was still the normal 16v shell or made to look like an Evo? I can't find images of it. I know someone who worked there years ago but that person has disappeared.

[yellowtr]

viggyp said:

Behemoth said:

viggyp said:

Yeah. I think Barry's name was Waterhouse? He had a black Evo nicknamed Stealth if memory serves me well.

Yes, iirc that car was a 16v. Barry was the most charismatic garage owner I've ever met. He should have had his own TV show & it's a shame YouTube wasn't yet a thing back then - a Lancia channel by him would have been sthg to really cherish. I was sad when he died, but at least he got to enjoy retirement in Corsica for a little while.

Yes, you're right but can't remember if it was still the normal 16v shell or made to look like an Evo? I can't find images of it. I know someone who worked there years ago but that person has disappeared.

Yes, indeed it was Barry Waterhouse or BWE or Evo Engineering. I was very good friends with Barry and we spent many a night out, days together. He was an legend and very few like him left. He has some amazing stories, he was actually a trained chemist, turned estate agent and then mechanic. The arches off John Ruskin Street was always filled with a variety of Italian exotica.Stealth was indeed a 16v and I believe it still exists, possibly with Keith at Auto Integrale in Reading.

I am good friends with Peter Ward at Autofficina who worked at Barry's for a while. Peter worked on my Lancia Y10 Turbo when I first met him at Barry's.

I was gutted when Barry passed away. I went to a remembrance service organised by his daughter in Guildford. Was lovely to see all his friends and family. I think of him fondly even to this day and actually have a bit of a wet eye writing this.

[viggyp]

yellowtr said:

viggyp said:

Behemoth said:

viggyp said:

Yeah. I think Barry's name was Waterhouse? He had a black Evo nicknamed Stealth if memory serves me well.

Yes, iirc that car was a 16v. Barry was the most charismatic garage owner I've ever met. He should have had his own TV show & it's a shame YouTube wasn't yet a thing back then - a Lancia channel by him would have been sthg to really cherish. I was sad when he died, but at least he got to enjoy retirement in Corsica for a little while.

Yes, you're right but can't remember if it was still the normal 16v shell or made to look like an Evo? I can't find images of it. I know someone who worked there years ago but that person has disappeared.

Yes, indeed it was Barry Waterhouse or BWE or Evo Engineering. I was very good friends with Barry and we spent many a night out, days together. He was an legend and very few like him left. He has some amazing stories, he was actually a trained chemist, turned estate agent and then mechanic. The arches off John Ruskin Street was always filled with a variety of Italian exotica.Stealth was indeed a 16v and I believe it still exists, possibly with Keith at Auto Integrale in Reading.

I am good friends with Peter Ward at Autofficina who worked at Barry's for a while. Peter worked on my Lancia Y10 Turbo when I first met him at Barry's.

I was gutted when Barry passed away. I went to a remembrance service organised by his daughter in Guildford. Was lovely to see all his friends and family. I think of him fondly even to this day and actually have a bit of a wet eye writing this.

I remember Peter Ward running Racing Technologies but never realised he is at Autofficina. He had an 8V Integrale with 285bhp and over 300lb ft with only 1.2bar boost if I remember correctly? Will need to hunt my old Auto Italia mag for that feature tonight

[yellowtr]

viggyp said:

I remember Peter Ward running Racing Technologies but never realised he is at Autofficina. He had an 8V Integrale with 285bhp and over 300lb ft with only 1.2bar boost if I remember correctly? Will need to hunt my old Auto Italia mag for that feature tonight

I believe that car was Alan Hutton's but Alan sadly passed away many years ago. I have no idea what happened to the car. Peter still does a few Integrales now, but the staple is mostly Ferrari's, Lambo's and Maserati's.

[Jacobyte]

yellowtr said:

viggyp said:

Behemoth said:

viggyp said:

Yeah. I think Barry's name was Waterhouse? He had a black Evo nicknamed Stealth if memory serves me well.

Yes, iirc that car was a 16v. Barry was the most charismatic garage owner I've ever met. He should have had his own TV show & it's a shame YouTube wasn't yet a thing back then - a Lancia channel by him would have been sthg to really cherish. I was sad when he died, but at least he got to enjoy retirement in Corsica for a little while.

Yes, you're right but can't remember if it was still the normal 16v shell or made to look like an Evo? I can't find images of it. I know someone who worked there years ago but that person has disappeared.

Yes, indeed it was Barry Waterhouse or BWE or Evo Engineering. I was very good friends with Barry and we spent many a night out, days together. He was an legend and very few like him left. He has some amazing stories, he was actually a trained chemist, turned estate agent and then mechanic. The arches off John Ruskin Street was always filled with a variety of Italian exotica.Stealth was indeed a 16v and I believe it still exists, possibly with Keith at Auto Integrale in Reading.

I am good friends with Peter Ward at Autofficina who worked at Barry's for a while. Peter worked on my Lancia Y10 Turbo when I first met him at Barry's.

I was gutted when Barry passed away. I went to a remembrance service organised by his daughter in Guildford. Was lovely to see all his friends and family. I think of him fondly even to this day and actually have a bit of a wet eye writing this.

Ahh, them were the days!

Stealth was in fact an 8v rally car, made into a 16v fast road/trackday car then full race car, after which Barry retired (in fact it was to Sardinia, although Corsica would also be a great place to retire to). Stealth was then "in storage" for a decade before quite recently being turned into a fully bare-shell-restored Evo rally car in Martini colours (by Keith) and is now doing the historic scene.

Pete, I look forward to seeing the old man's Evo1 when it's ready - it's been a loooong time!

[yellowtr]

Jacobyte said:

Ahh, them were the days!

Stealth was in fact an 8v rally car, made into a 16v fast road/trackday car then full race car, after which Barry retired (in fact it was to Sardinia, although Corsica would also be a great place to retire to). Stealth was then "in storage" for a decade before quite recently being turned into a fully bare-shell-restored Evo rally car in Martini colours (by Keith) and is now doing the historic scene.

Pete, I look forward to seeing the old man's Evo1 when it's ready - it's been a loooong time!

Hi mate,

I am glad you have popped in

Ah, thanks for the correction, my memory isn't quite as good anymore

It will hopefully be ready next year, he has no idea I am doing it, so will be a great surprise for him. He hasn't seen it in 7 years.

[firebird350]

yellowtr said:

viggyp said:

Behemoth said:

viggyp said:

Yeah. I think Barry's name was Waterhouse? He had a black Evo nicknamed Stealth if memory serves me well.

Yes, iirc that car was a 16v. Barry was the most charismatic garage owner I've ever met. He should have had his own TV show & it's a shame YouTube wasn't yet a thing back then - a Lancia channel by him would have been sthg to really cherish. I was sad when he died, but at least he got to enjoy retirement in Corsica for a little while.

Yes, you're right but can't remember if it was still the normal 16v shell or made to look like an Evo? I can't find images of it. I know someone who worked there years ago but that person has disappeared.

Yes, indeed it was Barry Waterhouse or BWE or Evo Engineering. I was very good friends with Barry and we spent many a night out, days together. He was an legend and very few like him left. He has some amazing stories, he was actually a trained chemist, turned estate agent and then mechanic. The arches off John Ruskin Street was always filled with a variety of Italian exotica.Stealth was indeed a 16v and I believe it still exists, possibly with Keith at Auto Integrale in Reading.

I am good friends with Peter Ward at Autofficina who worked at Barry's for a while. Peter worked on my Lancia Y10 Turbo when I first met him at Barry's.

I was gutted when Barry passed away. I went to a remembrance service organised by his daughter in Guildford. Was lovely to see all his friends and family. I think of him fondly even to this day and actually have a bit of a wet eye writing this.

Yes, charismatic is certainly the word. I met Barry a couple of times during the '80s in the days of the old Fiat Twin Cam Register.
Remember we chatted down at a Castle Combe trackday (not one of today's commecialised trackdays but rather the 'old' track days where motor clubs would book an amenable circuit mid-week for their members and we'd pay £20 each and get a day throwing our cars around for 6 laps at a time).

Barry was there that day putting a genuine Fiat 131 Abarth through its paces. The car was a rally car (although not ex-works) and belonged to a guy named Tim Parker-Garner who resided in Jersey at the time and he'd commissioned Barry to sort out some engine issues (excessive bore wear being one of them). The car was putting out around 190 BHP that day according to Barry.

Anyway, I was out trying to put in some quick laps in my pretty standard 131 Sport (Stage 1 head and cams but standard twin-choke Weber unfortunately!) and managed to get it down to 1 min 28 secs (pre-chicane days obviously - well, the second one anyway). Barry sauntered over to enquire about my car and also complimented me on trying. We had a nice chat and then he went out in the 131 Abarth and knocked out a couple of 1 min 18 sec laps with no trouble at all - a full 10 secs faster.

For the life of me I still don't know why I didn't bag a ride with him at the time - never got the chance to sample a 131 Abarth (one of my favourite rally cars) even though I occasionally also saw Peter Ward who had a blue 131 Abarth Stradale at the time (don't think he took it out much though).

Also saw Barry at a dealer's 'open' day (again back in the '80s) for Italian car enthusiasts where he'd brought along an immaculate, gleaming black Lancia Montecarlo that he'd fitted with a brake balance kit - essentially a cockpit-controlled (knurled knob) facility to adjust the front to rear brake bias. I did get a ride in that and thought it was lovely.

[sledge68]

HF 4WD, 8V, 16V , Evolution 1 of which there were examples like waterspray ones which I owned, then Evolution 2s.

[sledge68]

HF 4WD, 8V, 16V , Evolution 1 of which there were examples like waterspray ones which I owned, then Evolution 2s.

Evo 1s have black roof rails whereas Evo2s have coloured roof rails.

There are also variants within each Evo, like the intercooler waterspray 1 I had, which was 1 of 500.

rtz62 said:

Being a pedant, wasn’t the first Evolution model known just as that, the Evolution and not Evolution 1?
So, from the Integrale onwards it was Integrale 8v, Integrale 16v, Evolution, Evolution 2, followed by the limited edition and final edition models (various).
And out of interest, the colour Giallo Ginestra means ‘Broom yellow’ iirc, not as exotic sounding in English is it? A bit like Quattroporte meaning the less than exotic sounding ‘four door’..

Edited by rtz62 on Thursday 4th October 07:49

[Behemoth]

sledge68 said:

HF 4WD, 8V, 16V , Evolution 1 of which there were examples like waterspray ones which I owned, then Evolution 2s.

You've missed the 8vKat, which was produced alongside the 16v. Of course, there were also various Deltas which preceded the HF 4WD.

[LotusOmega375D]

I'd avoid an Integrale with the 8v Kat engine. Wasn't that the strangled low output Swiss specifiation, used in later models as well?

I had a 16v for a couple of years. It shared my garage with my R5 Turbo 2. Hmm, what do I fancy driving today? Group A or Group B? Decisions, decisions...



I sold both of these cars for a combined total of less than 20 grand. I wonder what they'd be worth today? Still they provided effectively free motoring whilst I owned them, so no regrets.

[RowntreesCabana]

drewos said:

Ah, those were the days. Top Marques magazine, I was 21 and lusted after the Integrale. Walkers was always the place to pick one up. Sadly I never managed to realise that dream, and never will now with the way prices have gone.

[Behemoth]

LotusOmega375D said:

I'd avoid an Integrale with the 8v Kat engine. Wasn't that the strangled low output Swiss specifiation, used in later models as well?

The cat isn't a legal requirement outside Switzerland. Strip it out and you have a standard 8v which is well known to be more robust and less stressed than the 16v. By the time of the later catted cars, the cats are legally required in the UK so can't be removed to recover lost power iirc.

That said, these power output differences are pretty meaningless in the real world after so many decades.

I'd go for any non Evo car, certainly including the 8vKat. They all remain bargains if you can find a well looked after example.

[wolfie28]

Nearly bought a red Evo 1 for 8k a number of years ago but didn't buy it and bought something else. One of my dream cars and sadly will stay a dream due to prices now!!