RE: 2019 Porsche 911: PH goes shotgun in the 992
Discussion
tim milne said:
When cars are self-driving, there will be no need, or desire for ownership — people will simply buy rides.
The hard work nowadays, the thing that takes time and that cannot be circumvented, is getting people's data and credit card details. To this end, Uber are streets ahead of any competition and will have control of the market — because they have the relationship with the ride-buying public — shifting power away from the auto-makers who will be supplying cars to them.
For sure, there'll be enthusiasts who continue to own their own cars, but driving on roads dominated by autonomous vehicles will be a very different proposition, not least because governments will have to bring in a raft of legalisation to favour the self-driving cars
Hence the Toyota-uber partnership for instance. Who wins is yet to be decided of course but rides are the future indeed, driving will not be for the masses. Riding your own car will become a passion only, like horse riding.The hard work nowadays, the thing that takes time and that cannot be circumvented, is getting people's data and credit card details. To this end, Uber are streets ahead of any competition and will have control of the market — because they have the relationship with the ride-buying public — shifting power away from the auto-makers who will be supplying cars to them.
For sure, there'll be enthusiasts who continue to own their own cars, but driving on roads dominated by autonomous vehicles will be a very different proposition, not least because governments will have to bring in a raft of legalisation to favour the self-driving cars
sidesauce said:
nd that's why Lotus, Cateram and Morgan sales are through the roof every year. Oh, wait...
Only my point of view. The masses obviously want these cars and the additions/automation so lap it up. Was looking at early Aero8's the other day as quite fancy one. They're quite unique and don't spawn the same poor reactions that a lot of the supercar/sports cars seem to get.
As a verified troglodyte the 991 signalled the end of my love for the 911.
The 992 will seemingly cast the situation in concrete, but then I never expected anything other than the inevitable watering-down of what matters to drivers, with what matters to marketing departments. If these cars are about driving, let drivers drive them. Convenience aids (that marketing departments insist we must have - because other brands/cars have them, and sales will be lost otherwise) need space to package, harnesses and processors to feed, and components and control modules to implement, all of which adds volume and mass. These cars are of course first and foremost about sales volumes, and what buyers want, not what enthusiasts want. There's a distinction between the two and sadly the overlap of satisfying the entire spectrum seems to diminish or shift away from the enthusiast at every re-iteration of 911.
A shame that the interface with the mechanical and world around us is increasingly being passed-through, filtered, and measured by processors, because I have yet to find an instance where this actually results in something more tactile, more visceral, or more enjoyable.
Except for internet car forums of course.
I'm off back to my cave now...
The 992 will seemingly cast the situation in concrete, but then I never expected anything other than the inevitable watering-down of what matters to drivers, with what matters to marketing departments. If these cars are about driving, let drivers drive them. Convenience aids (that marketing departments insist we must have - because other brands/cars have them, and sales will be lost otherwise) need space to package, harnesses and processors to feed, and components and control modules to implement, all of which adds volume and mass. These cars are of course first and foremost about sales volumes, and what buyers want, not what enthusiasts want. There's a distinction between the two and sadly the overlap of satisfying the entire spectrum seems to diminish or shift away from the enthusiast at every re-iteration of 911.
A shame that the interface with the mechanical and world around us is increasingly being passed-through, filtered, and measured by processors, because I have yet to find an instance where this actually results in something more tactile, more visceral, or more enjoyable.
Except for internet car forums of course.
I'm off back to my cave now...
Looks really clunky compared the the 991, and that looked really clunky compared to the 997.
I'm a huge fan of Porsche and no doubt this car will win me over, but they aren't pretty any more are they?
Remember when 21" rims where a rapper's way of pimping their SUV? Now its standard kit on a 911
I'm a huge fan of Porsche and no doubt this car will win me over, but they aren't pretty any more are they?
Remember when 21" rims where a rapper's way of pimping their SUV? Now its standard kit on a 911
JMF894 said:
_Leg_ said:
"this car coming with Lane Keeping Assist and Lane Departure Warning systems"
"among them is a new Wet Mode, ...............it's standard, and automatically switches on if it detects a wet surface."
Not long now.....
My thoughts exactly!!"among them is a new Wet Mode, ...............it's standard, and automatically switches on if it detects a wet surface."
Not long now.....
If I want easy to drive I take my 4x4 thanks, that's not the point of a sports or supercar.
_Leg_ said:
JMF894 said:
_Leg_ said:
"this car coming with Lane Keeping Assist and Lane Departure Warning systems"
"among them is a new Wet Mode, ...............it's standard, and automatically switches on if it detects a wet surface."
Not long now.....
My thoughts exactly!!"among them is a new Wet Mode, ...............it's standard, and automatically switches on if it detects a wet surface."
Not long now.....
If I want easy to drive I take my 4x4 thanks, that's not the point of a sports or supercar.
_Leg_ said:
If I want easy to drive I take my 4x4 thanks, that's not the point of a sports or supercar.
Exactly. Instead of a compromise, one size fits none solution like the 911 you can have a Range Rover and a Lotus and drive the one that meets the day's needs. That's how you can have a daily driver that's an actual sports car - not by merging the two and ending up with a "pretty good sports car for an SUV" merged with a "pretty good SUV for a sports car".
MikeGalos said:
Exactly. Instead of a compromise, one size fits none solution like the 911 you can have a Range Rover and a Lotus and drive the one that meets the day's needs. That's how you can have a daily driver that's an actual sports car - not by merging the two and ending up with a "pretty good sports car for an SUV" merged with a "pretty good SUV for a sports car".
The 911 isn’t a pretty good sports car. It’s been the benchmark for 50 years.
"this car coming with Lane Keeping Assist and Lane Departure Warning systems"
Sorry, I'm still stuck on this stupidity.
If people can't keep a f
king car between 2 white lines and need ste like this to get safely from A to B then which idiot is issuing them with a license? Surely the "keep it between the kerb and the white line" test is pretty much the most basic skill needed to drive?
And therein lies the answer to congestion. As soon as someone specs or buys a car with "Lane Keeping Assist" an alarm should go off and a team specially selected from PHers should swoop in, slap them in the chops and take their license off them immediately.
Any volunteers?
Sorry, I'm still stuck on this stupidity.
If people can't keep a f
king car between 2 white lines and need ste like this to get safely from A to B then which idiot is issuing them with a license? Surely the "keep it between the kerb and the white line" test is pretty much the most basic skill needed to drive?And therein lies the answer to congestion. As soon as someone specs or buys a car with "Lane Keeping Assist" an alarm should go off and a team specially selected from PHers should swoop in, slap them in the chops and take their license off them immediately.
Any volunteers?
_Leg_ said:
"this car coming with Lane Keeping Assist and Lane Departure Warning systems"
Sorry, I'm still stuck on this stupidity.
If people can't keep a fking car between 2 white lines and need ste like this to get safely from A to B then which idiot is issuing them with a license? Surely the "keep it between the kerb and the white line" test is pretty much the most basic skill needed to drive?
And therein lies the answer to congestion. As soon as someone specs or buys a car with "Lane Keeping Assist" an alarm should go off and a team specially selected from PHers should swoop in, slap them in the chops and take their license off them immediately.
Any volunteers?
People struggle to keep in lane even in a relatively civilised place like London, on roads with very visible and continues markings. Sorry, I'm still stuck on this stupidity.
If people can't keep a f
king car between 2 white lines and need ste like this to get safely from A to B then which idiot is issuing them with a license? Surely the "keep it between the kerb and the white line" test is pretty much the most basic skill needed to drive?And therein lies the answer to congestion. As soon as someone specs or buys a car with "Lane Keeping Assist" an alarm should go off and a team specially selected from PHers should swoop in, slap them in the chops and take their license off them immediately.
Any volunteers?
Imagine somewhere like Naples where there are little to no road markings (other than massive pot holes)
Nanook said:
_Leg_ said:
"this car coming with Lane Keeping Assist and Lane Departure Warning systems"
Sorry, I'm still stuck on this stupidity.
If people can't keep a fking car between 2 white lines and need ste like this to get safely from A to B then which idiot is issuing them with a license? Surely the "keep it between the kerb and the white line" test is pretty much the most basic skill needed to drive?
And therein lies the answer to congestion. As soon as someone specs or buys a car with "Lane Keeping Assist" an alarm should go off and a team specially selected from PHers should swoop in, slap them in the chops and take their license off them immediately.
Any volunteers?
I see what you mean, if people can't keep a car between the lines, should they have a licence?Sorry, I'm still stuck on this stupidity.
If people can't keep a f
king car between 2 white lines and need ste like this to get safely from A to B then which idiot is issuing them with a license? Surely the "keep it between the kerb and the white line" test is pretty much the most basic skill needed to drive?And therein lies the answer to congestion. As soon as someone specs or buys a car with "Lane Keeping Assist" an alarm should go off and a team specially selected from PHers should swoop in, slap them in the chops and take their license off them immediately.
Any volunteers?
Follow that to its logical conclusion though, and everyone is perfect, we don't need seatbelts, airbags, all that jazz.
People make mistakes. Car manufacturers are taking steps to limit the impact those mistakes have.
Seems like a positive step to me, and it's certainly not going to do you any harm.
Nanook said:
Seems like a positive step to me, and it's certainly not going to do you any harm.
Unfortunately it may well do. The damn brake pre-sense on my Audi has kicked in 3 times in the last 6 months for no reason whatsoever. Nearly had a heart attack. Each time I disable it in the MMI menu, it seems to automatically rearm itself.Nanook said:
_Leg_ said:
"this car coming with Lane Keeping Assist and Lane Departure Warning systems"
Sorry, I'm still stuck on this stupidity.
If people can't keep a fking car between 2 white lines and need ste like this to get safely from A to B then which idiot is issuing them with a license? Surely the "keep it between the kerb and the white line" test is pretty much the most basic skill needed to drive?
And therein lies the answer to congestion. As soon as someone specs or buys a car with "Lane Keeping Assist" an alarm should go off and a team specially selected from PHers should swoop in, slap them in the chops and take their license off them immediately.
Any volunteers?
I see what you mean, if people can't keep a car between the lines, should they have a licence?Sorry, I'm still stuck on this stupidity.
If people can't keep a f
king car between 2 white lines and need ste like this to get safely from A to B then which idiot is issuing them with a license? Surely the "keep it between the kerb and the white line" test is pretty much the most basic skill needed to drive?And therein lies the answer to congestion. As soon as someone specs or buys a car with "Lane Keeping Assist" an alarm should go off and a team specially selected from PHers should swoop in, slap them in the chops and take their license off them immediately.
Any volunteers?
Follow that to its logical conclusion though, and everyone is perfect, we don't need seatbelts, airbags, all that jazz.
People make mistakes. Car manufacturers are taking steps to limit the impact those mistakes have.
Seems like a positive step to me, and it's certainly not going to do you any harm.
spikyone said:
And correct me if I'm wrong, but don't those systems only kick in if you fail to use your indicators when changing lanes? You'd expect the average PHer to approve of systems like that, for other people's cars at least
I'm joking in all my comments on this thread largely, I don't care what they do with new 911s as I have the Porsches I want and any more I want aren't new ones, but the point really is that if you're the sort of numpty who can't drive properly, don't buy a 911. I know Porsche want to sell more cars and so they need to target a wider audience. The fact that they're doing this to the 911 says everything about what the 911 has become. It will bleed into other performance cars too. They're becoming too accessible, thereby losing the point of them.Edited by _Leg_ on Thursday 11th October 18:21
I don’t think I have particularly low standards in regard to cars, but pretty much uniquely on this thread, I would be really happy with this car and would feel quite lucky to have it. It’s a really nice brand new sports car, well made, looks good, nice and powerful and is just an all-round nice object. I love classics but this car would be an ideal daily driver. Riviera Blue special order please with very dark grey leather, PDK and silver alloys.
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