RE: VW Up GTI v Mazda 2 GT Sport v Suzuki Swift Sport
Discussion
greenarrow said:
Well done Pistonheads for such a positive write up on the little Mazda 2.
I couldn't agree more. I've had an NB MX-5 and currently drive a decade old Mazda 6 (not very PH, I know). My parents bought a new Mazda2 Sport Black at a very tidy discount a few months ago, and I've thoroughly enjoyed driving it when I've had the chance. Not many new cars feel light (in a good way) these days, but the 2 definitely does. I used to drive an AX a long time ago, and the 2 had some of the same chuckable charm, albeit wrapped up in a much more grown-up (and hugely safer) package.If the next 6 takes its inspiration from the Vision Coupé concept, and the next 3 from Kai concept, both with the SkyActive-X engines in tow, Mazda could be onto something...
Edited by miscfiles on Monday 15th October 14:54
andrewparker said:
Perhaps it doesn't matter, but isn't the Mazda2 a competitor to the Fiesta, than the UP? Wouldn't an ST-Line be more relevant in this line up, in terms of size and price? The Up! sits in the segment below as far as I'm concerned.
agree, but at least its selection gets it in on the radar - I can't see PH doing an ST-line vs group testThe main issue for the Up! GTI is the GTI badge and it always will be. Had it been called GTI/GT Line (or similar) in the way other manufacturers use it, it would make a lot more sense. It simply lacks the spec to deliver as a proper GTI and it's also the reason the pricing is hard to compare.
If they'd done more development, put some better seats in it to cure the driving position etc etc we'd be talking about a £18k+ car specced to the level the PH one is. And even then we'd potentially be arguing about 'how rubbish it is that a near 19k Up! is slower than a mazda 2 to 60mph'.
Although it still doesn't excuse the act of naming the cheaper lesser car the better one purely because it has VW GTi badges, the fact you can drive a Volkswagen with a GTI badge for as little as 14-15k is what is selling them (whether that's right or wrong, its definitely true).
It's a difficult part of the market for many reasons.
If they'd done more development, put some better seats in it to cure the driving position etc etc we'd be talking about a £18k+ car specced to the level the PH one is. And even then we'd potentially be arguing about 'how rubbish it is that a near 19k Up! is slower than a mazda 2 to 60mph'.
Although it still doesn't excuse the act of naming the cheaper lesser car the better one purely because it has VW GTi badges, the fact you can drive a Volkswagen with a GTI badge for as little as 14-15k is what is selling them (whether that's right or wrong, its definitely true).
It's a difficult part of the market for many reasons.
andrewparker said:
Perhaps it doesn't matter, but isn't the Mazda2 a competitor to the Fiesta, than the UP? Wouldn't an ST-Line be more relevant in this line up, in terms of size and price? The Up! sits in the segment below as far as I'm concerned.
The UP! does sit in the segment below, in size at least.. On price however; It's right in the same price bracket.. People generally buy on budget, rather than car size.. Superhoop said:
andrewparker said:
Perhaps it doesn't matter, but isn't the Mazda2 a competitor to the Fiesta, than the UP? Wouldn't an ST-Line be more relevant in this line up, in terms of size and price? The Up! sits in the segment below as far as I'm concerned.
The UP! does sit in the segment below, in size at least.. On price however; It's right in the same price bracket.. People generally buy on budget, rather than car size.. andrewparker said:
Superhoop said:
andrewparker said:
Perhaps it doesn't matter, but isn't the Mazda2 a competitor to the Fiesta, than the UP? Wouldn't an ST-Line be more relevant in this line up, in terms of size and price? The Up! sits in the segment below as far as I'm concerned.
The UP! does sit in the segment below, in size at least.. On price however; It's right in the same price bracket.. People generally buy on budget, rather than car size.. What gets me is when they have a headline as '£30K heroes' or similar and it's an approx £29,995 Impreza saloon vs an approx. £39,995 S3 saloon.
OK, it appears that the Up won this comparison despite not being the best driver's car but perhaps the verdict is a little bit more complex than that? The Up does look the part, whereas the Mazda and Suzuki look like something my mum might drive. The other big thing for me is that you can get the Up as a 3 door, whereas the Mazda and Suzuki are 5 doors only and in a small warm/hot hatch, I much prefer the look of a 3 door. Secondly, there's the price. The Swift may objectively be the better car but even discounted, it's around 3k more. Yes, it's well-equipped but it has a lot of tech in it that personally I find unnecessary in a warm/hot hatch and personally if I was spending 17k on a hatchback, I would rather go for a "full fat" hot hatch like a Fiesta ST, even if it was a fraction more expensive. If the Up/Swift Sport were the same money then the comparison would no doubt be more favourable to the Suzuki.
I have a lot of respect for Mazdas. They're good quality, good value and rather underrated. The Mazda 3 and 6 are both great cars and no doubt this new 2 GT is too. They drive like the engineers who signed them off actually cared that they drove well but the lack of visual appeal/appeal as an object is the "deal-breaker" for me, assuming that the greater practicality over the Up isn't a factor.
Incidentally, 9 years ago, we looked at a basic Swift, basic Mazda 2 and basic Fiat 500 for my wife. I liked the mk1 Swift a lot. It feels like a well-built Japanese MINI and definitely objectively, the Suzuki and Mazda were the better cars to drive. However, we went with the 500 because it felt more special and less mass-produced and we could "personalise" it more with red and ivory seats and chrome mirror caps etc and the driving experience wasn't sufficiently inferior to overcome that. I haven't driven the Up GTi and VW don't always "nail" the chassis dynamics (mk3/4 Golf GTi and mk1/2 Polo GTi weren't great) but the Up GTi does offer more scope for personalisation and as an object is the more desirable and "cool" car. Not a very PH argument but a more significant one than people like to admit to.
I have a lot of respect for Mazdas. They're good quality, good value and rather underrated. The Mazda 3 and 6 are both great cars and no doubt this new 2 GT is too. They drive like the engineers who signed them off actually cared that they drove well but the lack of visual appeal/appeal as an object is the "deal-breaker" for me, assuming that the greater practicality over the Up isn't a factor.
Incidentally, 9 years ago, we looked at a basic Swift, basic Mazda 2 and basic Fiat 500 for my wife. I liked the mk1 Swift a lot. It feels like a well-built Japanese MINI and definitely objectively, the Suzuki and Mazda were the better cars to drive. However, we went with the 500 because it felt more special and less mass-produced and we could "personalise" it more with red and ivory seats and chrome mirror caps etc and the driving experience wasn't sufficiently inferior to overcome that. I haven't driven the Up GTi and VW don't always "nail" the chassis dynamics (mk3/4 Golf GTi and mk1/2 Polo GTi weren't great) but the Up GTi does offer more scope for personalisation and as an object is the more desirable and "cool" car. Not a very PH argument but a more significant one than people like to admit to.
white_goodman said:
OK, it appears that the Up won this comparison despite not being the best driver's car but perhaps the verdict is a little bit more complex than that? The Up does look the part, whereas the Mazda and Suzuki look like something my mum might drive. The other big thing for me is that you can get the Up as a 3 door, whereas the Mazda and Suzuki are 5 doors only and in a small warm/hot hatch, I much prefer the look of a 3 door. Secondly, there's the price. The Swift may objectively be the better car but even discounted, it's around 3k more. Yes, it's well-equipped but it has a lot of tech in it that personally I find unnecessary in a warm/hot hatch and personally if I was spending 17k on a hatchback, I would rather go for a "full fat" hot hatch like a Fiesta ST, even if it was a fraction more expensive. If the Up/Swift Sport were the same money then the comparison would no doubt be more favourable to the Suzuki.
I have a lot of respect for Mazdas. They're good quality, good value and rather underrated. The Mazda 3 and 6 are both great cars and no doubt this new 2 GT is too. They drive like the engineers who signed them off actually cared that they drove well but the lack of visual appeal/appeal as an object is the "deal-breaker" for me, assuming that the greater practicality over the Up isn't a factor.
i'm just too much of a purist to let looks dominate that much. sure, a good looking car is good, but to prioritise this over dynamics and engine....I have a lot of respect for Mazdas. They're good quality, good value and rather underrated. The Mazda 3 and 6 are both great cars and no doubt this new 2 GT is too. They drive like the engineers who signed them off actually cared that they drove well but the lack of visual appeal/appeal as an object is the "deal-breaker" for me, assuming that the greater practicality over the Up isn't a factor.
also, i suspect the TCO for the Japs would be less when combining both costs to repair long term and hassle factor of my time sorting out Up issues down the line. as a keeper of cars for many years, the Japs are so easy to own. So obviously i recently replaced a faithful fault-free Yaris for a Mini Cooper
Having a quick look at what is on offer, it seems the Up GTI 5 door would come in around £15k with metallic paint (and let's face it, it only has 4 options and the base colours are prescription red and white).
The Suzuki Sport, on the other hand can be had for around £16k because metallic/pearl paint is a no cost option and it seems far better specified. I have seen an independent review where the reviewer was plainly very taken by it and it would be my first choice by a country mile.
The Suzuki Sport, on the other hand can be had for around £16k because metallic/pearl paint is a no cost option and it seems far better specified. I have seen an independent review where the reviewer was plainly very taken by it and it would be my first choice by a country mile.
CABC said:
i'm just too much of a purist to let looks dominate that much. sure, a good looking car is good, but to prioritise this over dynamics and engine....
also, i suspect the TCO for the Japs would be less when combining both costs to repair long term and hassle factor of my time sorting out Up issues down the line. as a keeper of cars for many years, the Japs are so easy to own. So obviously i recently replaced a faithful fault-free Yaris for a Mini Cooper
I'm with you re Jap cars. If I'm after a hassle-free ownership experience, something Japanese would be my "go to". That being said, I ran new VWs from 2005-2010 and never had any major issues, the Fiat 500 was also trouble-free over 3.5 years and 30,000 miles and having owned some more recent Japanese cars (Toyota Auris and a 2013 Civic 1.8 petrol), yeah, they were pretty reliable but did nothing for me, hence why the Civic was replaced by a 2009 MINI Cooper two years ago, which "touchwood" has also been fine! Toyotas are pretty "unkillable" though. My MIL's 2007 Yaris is on 300,000km with minimal maintenance and still going strong! Pretty nasty to drive though.also, i suspect the TCO for the Japs would be less when combining both costs to repair long term and hassle factor of my time sorting out Up issues down the line. as a keeper of cars for many years, the Japs are so easy to own. So obviously i recently replaced a faithful fault-free Yaris for a Mini Cooper
Don't get me wrong, the Japanese made some great driver's cars in the 90s and even a few gems more recently but most Japanese cars are pretty dull if reliable but life's a bit short for dull and reliable. I haven't heard any complaints about the Up's engine and a thrummy turbocharged 3-pot sounds pretty fun to me. I guess the styling tends to draw me in first, not to say that the drive couldn't potentially put me off but for me, the new SSS doesn't inspire me to look at, isn't cheap enough to be a bargain or powerful enough to justify its price tag. The mk1 and 2 SSS appealed to me more for the bargain pricetag, pert looks and old school, revvy NA engines, even if the performance fell short of the Fiesta ST et al.
white_goodman said:
OK, it appears that the Up won this comparison despite not being the best driver's car but perhaps the verdict is a little bit more complex than that? The Up does look the part, whereas the Mazda and Suzuki look like something my mum might drive. The other big thing for me is that you can get the Up as a 3 door, whereas the Mazda and Suzuki are 5 doors only and in a small warm/hot hatch, I much prefer the look of a 3 door. Secondly, there's the price. The Swift may objectively be the better car but even discounted, it's around 3k more. Yes, it's well-equipped but it has a lot of tech in it that personally I find unnecessary in a warm/hot hatch and personally if I was spending 17k on a hatchback, I would rather go for a "full fat" hot hatch like a Fiesta ST, even if it was a fraction more expensive. If the Up/Swift Sport were the same money then the comparison would no doubt be more favourable to the Suzuki.
I have a lot of respect for Mazdas. They're good quality, good value and rather underrated. The Mazda 3 and 6 are both great cars and no doubt this new 2 GT is too. They drive like the engineers who signed them off actually cared that they drove well but the lack of visual appeal/appeal as an object is the "deal-breaker" for me, assuming that the greater practicality over the Up isn't a factor.
Incidentally, 9 years ago, we looked at a basic Swift, basic Mazda 2 and basic Fiat 500 for my wife. I liked the mk1 Swift a lot. It feels like a well-built Japanese MINI and definitely objectively, the Suzuki and Mazda were the better cars to drive. However, we went with the 500 because it felt more special and less mass-produced and we could "personalise" it more with red and ivory seats and chrome mirror caps etc and the driving experience wasn't sufficiently inferior to overcome that. I haven't driven the Up GTi and VW don't always "nail" the chassis dynamics (mk3/4 Golf GTi and mk1/2 Polo GTi weren't great) but the Up GTi does offer more scope for personalisation and as an object is the more desirable and "cool" car. Not a very PH argument but a more significant one than people like to admit to.
It's funny how different people's perceptions are as regards the styling of the cars. For me, the Swift Sport is definitely the better looking / most aggressive of the three cars. The old lady that used to live next to me had a boggo Up!. The Up! GTI barely looks any different to me. Visually, the only thing that really sets them apart - are the wheels. Other than that, it's a couple of badges and a few red flashes.I have a lot of respect for Mazdas. They're good quality, good value and rather underrated. The Mazda 3 and 6 are both great cars and no doubt this new 2 GT is too. They drive like the engineers who signed them off actually cared that they drove well but the lack of visual appeal/appeal as an object is the "deal-breaker" for me, assuming that the greater practicality over the Up isn't a factor.
Incidentally, 9 years ago, we looked at a basic Swift, basic Mazda 2 and basic Fiat 500 for my wife. I liked the mk1 Swift a lot. It feels like a well-built Japanese MINI and definitely objectively, the Suzuki and Mazda were the better cars to drive. However, we went with the 500 because it felt more special and less mass-produced and we could "personalise" it more with red and ivory seats and chrome mirror caps etc and the driving experience wasn't sufficiently inferior to overcome that. I haven't driven the Up GTi and VW don't always "nail" the chassis dynamics (mk3/4 Golf GTi and mk1/2 Polo GTi weren't great) but the Up GTi does offer more scope for personalisation and as an object is the more desirable and "cool" car. Not a very PH argument but a more significant one than people like to admit to.
The Swift Sport however, looks much better in the skin. Pictures don't do it any justice. Seen in the skin, it's quite a purposeful looking car. In some respects I think it looks better than the new Fiesta ST as well. As most will know, there's not much to differentiate between an ST-Line Fiesta and a full fat ST. The Swift Sport has completely different styling to the rest of the range. You know it's a Sport as soon as you see it.
Out of the three cars here - stylistically - the Mazda is the weakest for me. It doesn't even look like a warm hatch, let alone a hot one. The Up! GTI comes next. Again, put those wheels on a regular Up! and you'd need a double-take to even notice the difference. The Swift Sport has it sewn up as the only one that 'looks' like a hot-hatch.
DazzaSport said:
It's funny how different people's perceptions are as regards the styling of the cars. For me, the Swift Sport is definitely the better looking / most aggressive of the three cars. The old lady that used to live next to me had a boggo Up!. The Up! GTI barely looks any different to me. Visually, the only thing that really sets them apart - are the wheels. Other than that, it's a couple of badges and a few red flashes.
The Swift Sport however, looks much better in the skin. Pictures don't do it any justice. Seen in the skin, it's quite a purposeful looking car. In some respects I think it looks better than the new Fiesta ST as well. As most will know, there's not much to differentiate between an ST-Line Fiesta and a full fat ST. The Swift Sport has completely different styling to the rest of the range. You know it's a Sport as soon as you see it.
Out of the three cars here - stylistically - the Mazda is the weakest for me. It doesn't even look like a warm hatch, let alone a hot one. The Up! GTI comes next. Again, put those wheels on a regular Up! and you'd need a double-take to even notice the difference. The Swift Sport has it sewn up as the only one that 'looks' like a hot-hatch.
A fair point and to be fair, I have yet to see a new SSS in the metal, as my local Suzuki dealership closed down a few years ago. In pictures though, it does look less "cohesive" than the old one to me and the extra pair of doors don't help its sporting credentials. My other points still stand though. It may be a fantastic drive and the package certainly has some appeal but needs to lose 2k or so in price to be on my radar (and I would be perfectly happy if they achieved this by losing some of the tech features). The Swift Sport however, looks much better in the skin. Pictures don't do it any justice. Seen in the skin, it's quite a purposeful looking car. In some respects I think it looks better than the new Fiesta ST as well. As most will know, there's not much to differentiate between an ST-Line Fiesta and a full fat ST. The Swift Sport has completely different styling to the rest of the range. You know it's a Sport as soon as you see it.
Out of the three cars here - stylistically - the Mazda is the weakest for me. It doesn't even look like a warm hatch, let alone a hot one. The Up! GTI comes next. Again, put those wheels on a regular Up! and you'd need a double-take to even notice the difference. The Swift Sport has it sewn up as the only one that 'looks' like a hot-hatch.
white_goodman said:
A fair point and to be fair, I have yet to see a new SSS in the metal, as my local Suzuki dealership closed down a few years ago. In pictures though, it does look less "cohesive" than the old one to me and the extra pair of doors don't help its sporting credentials. My other points still stand though. It may be a fantastic drive and the package certainly has some appeal but needs to lose 2k or so in price to be on my radar (and I would be perfectly happy if they achieved this by losing some of the tech features).
Suzuki have an offer on right now - £16,999. I paid £16,499 for my car. I believe it's worth every penny of that - tech features or not.It's well known among Swift Sport owners that the cars tend to be more powerful / faster than the book figures as well. I can vouch for that with the two Sports I have owned. They are both quicker than you'd expect.
Spec wise. The new car is extremely well equipped. 2 months later, I'm still discovering things I didn't know it had! The last one was a week or so ago. I discovered it has 'hill hold'. LOL.
Although people are declaring these cars "slow", and the article refers to being fast enough to be fun they are not slow in any meaningful way as road cars. There are much faster cars out there, but for usable performance, you don't need that much.
The Mazda 2 sounds great as a driving car. It actually reads like it is a newer, more powerful version of our old Mk6 Fiesta -which is light, sharp and very fun to drive, even with only 80bhp (so what if it can't win a drag race with an AMG or do much above a ton?).
The Mazda 2 sounds great as a driving car. It actually reads like it is a newer, more powerful version of our old Mk6 Fiesta -which is light, sharp and very fun to drive, even with only 80bhp (so what if it can't win a drag race with an AMG or do much above a ton?).
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 15th October 20:34
DazzaSport said:
Suzuki have an offer on right now - £16,999. I paid £16,499 for my car. I believe it's worth every penny of that - tech features or not.
It's well known among Swift Sport owners that the cars tend to be more powerful / faster than the book figures as well. I can vouch for that with the two Sports I have owned. They are both quicker than you'd expect.
Spec wise. The new car is extremely well equipped. 2 months later, I'm still discovering things I didn't know it had! The last one was a week or so ago. I discovered it has 'hill hold'. LOL.
OK, when they announced the Up GTi, I was pleasantly surprised by the price, especially as the Lupo GTi was always quite a pricey little car in its day. Finally, a desirable new car that I can afford! I still prefer the styling of the Up to the Swift (I like the regular Up anyway) but I have seen a few ex-demo SSSs for sale for close to 14k and in that context it does offer more car for the money than the Up and I would consider one, especially if I could have it now (still a waiting list on the Up)? It also means something that you owned the previous-gen SSS and it compares favorably but...I still think it looks a bit beaky and I don't like the rims! It's well known among Swift Sport owners that the cars tend to be more powerful / faster than the book figures as well. I can vouch for that with the two Sports I have owned. They are both quicker than you'd expect.
Spec wise. The new car is extremely well equipped. 2 months later, I'm still discovering things I didn't know it had! The last one was a week or so ago. I discovered it has 'hill hold'. LOL.
I would also see what deals were available on the Fiesta ST, as I would be happy with a 3 door ST-1, as the extra doors and spec of the Swift Sport don't matter to me, it's all about how it drives. I admire your enthusiasm for the SSS though and would also defend my own car (R56 MINI Cooper) to the hilt from any detractors. It's not that quick or practical and has an overly firm ride but I like it! I'm probably looking to go with something completely different next time but I do have a fondness for small warm/hot hatches, especially as a newer, lower-risk option, so will certainly consider an SSS if it falls into my budget and wants/needs.
DazzaSport said:
It's well known among Swift Sport owners that the cars tend to be more powerful / faster than the book figures as well. I can vouch for that with the two Sports I have owned. They are both quicker than you'd expect.
I was reading this group test earlier and the Swift Sport does look pretty quick. Ok, it’s not setting the world alight, but it looks quick enough to be fun. Up looks remarkably similar despite the weight and power difference too.https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/suzuki/swift/103757/...
underphil said:
Zygot said:
If only the Mazda had the new MX5 1.5. engine. Guess the market research shows it wouldn't sell in the UK in sufficient numbers to make it worthwhile. Shame really as I bet that would be a fun thing to drive. Mazda are bucking the trend by sticking with a naturally aspirated engine still and can build one that doesn't self destruct after a couple of years.
But could I please swap the Apple Carplay for all round disc brakes on the options list.
The 1.5 in the Mazda 2 is the same as the 1.5 in the MX-5 ND But could I please swap the Apple Carplay for all round disc brakes on the options list.
Exhaust system and cats are a bit different but it has the potential for a big increase from the 115 via a BBR map, to at least 140 I would imagine - with a much higher rev limit too (7800 I think)
The 1.5 MX5 can get to 155-160 bhp with a decent map.
I think to get much over 130 hp out of the Mazda 2 you may need to make some mechanical alterations.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff