Timing chain disaster

Author
Discussion

WoodL

Original Poster:

34 posts

65 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
So I know nothing about cars other than the very basics. I have joined this forum for some advise.

I was driving my 64 plate Mini countryman on the motorway and the engine just died on me. It was pretty scary ! I had to get towed to a garage that night. The mechanic there said my timming chain had broke off and the engine is a mess. He said 2 main reasons this happens are empty oil tank or a fault.

He said my oil tank was registering at min level on the dip stick and in his option didn't think that would cause this to happen. He saod be was very experienced and has seen empty oil tabks with cars running on them even though its bad...He works at my local small garage and couldn't do the job as it was too big a job for him at present time. Evan Halshaw then towed it to their garage (We bought the car from Evans Halshaw 10 months ago ) We had taken out an extended warranty with them. This repair is now covered under than unless they can prove it was our fault. They are trying to say the oil level is slightly below the min level and that's why this has happened? The 1st mechanic is still standing his ground and saying it shouldn't have happened.

Evans Halshaw are now wanting to send it to mini for them to look at it and authorise a repair. We have been told to orgabjse and oay for the tow truck which I feel is wrong. How likely is it they will agree with Evan Halshaw that the oil tank at minimal level caused this to happen? What would be the cost to replace a whole engine - diesel 2L cooper SD. I paid 9k for it and I've still 6k on my loan so not sure where to go from here. I've never had this happen before ! Nightmare !

Thanks in advance for any help

alorotom

11,907 posts

186 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
Was there any warning or notification that the oil level was low, other than the dip stick indication?

Matt Harper

6,613 posts

200 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
Oil tank?

WoodL

Original Poster:

34 posts

65 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
Hi , no oil warning light was on and the oil tank was at minimal level

GroundEffect

13,819 posts

155 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
If that's their official position - take it up with their senior management that the benefit of doubt she lie with the customer, not against. You have the opinion of the mechanic too, which will help.


Deep Thought

35,724 posts

196 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
WoodL said:
Hi , no oil warning light was on and the oil tank was at minimal level
Too late now, but i'd have stuck a litre of oil in to it before they picked it up....

BMW engines are known for timing chain failure particularly that 2.0TD. A quick google will come up with loads of similar experiences to demonstrate its a fault.

Also, the finance company own the car - you need to loop them in to put pressure on the dealer / warranty company.

Also, does the car have a full BMWSH? They may well contribute.

Also, you have your mechanics word - and no doubt a supporting letter could be provided - confirming that it was at the min level but not below it.

Edited by Deep Thought on Sunday 28th October 16:06

WoodL

Original Poster:

34 posts

65 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
Could an oil tank at that level be the actual cause ? There was a burning smell just before it happened. I've never owned a mini before but I had been topping up the oil every 2 months sometimes more sometimes less

As I said there was no low oil warning light on my dash

I just feel mini and Evans Halshaw will try to get out of the repair and I will be left with no car . What's the point of taking out a £400 extended warranty if it doesn't cover faults or mechanical failures ?

Would a new engine be more than the car is worth ?I think it's worth about 8.5k at present time .

It has been serviced by mini every year and passed it MOT 2 weeks ago with flying colours. I do drive 46 miles x 5 days in it

WoodL

Original Poster:

34 posts

65 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
fellows4 said:
Aside from financing a used car worth £9k, this is pretty unfortunate OP.

Given that you've only paid down £3k of your £9k loan you can't have had the car that long. I presume Evans Halshaw wouldn't have sold you a car with oil near min, would they?
I took out a personal loan to buy the car via the bank so not with them. I only got the car 10 months ago. It's been serviced by BMW at my local Mini garage every year. It was 3 years old when I bought it.

200Plus Club

10,668 posts

277 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
I don't think it's connected to a timing chain failure but tbh oil level maintenance is something people don't check and they really should, its so basic.

WoodL

Original Poster:

34 posts

65 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
Deep Thought said:
Too late now, but i'd have stuck a litre of oil in to it before they picked it up....

BMW engines are known for timing chain failure particularly that 2.0TD. A quick google wil2l come up with loads of similar experiences to demonstrate its a fault.

Also, the finance company own the car - you need to loop them in to put pressure on the dealer / warranty company.

Also, does the car have a full BMWSH? They may well contribute.

Also, you have your mechanics word - and no doubt a supporting letter could be provided - confirming that it was at the min level but not below it.

Edited by Deep Thought on Sunday 28th October 16:06
The 1st mechanic that saw it told me about the 're calls for the faults but it all seems to be 2007-2010 plates that had the fault?

I couldn't put oil in it as I was at work and they came and towed it that very day from the 1st garage.


I took out a personal loan with the bank so I doubt they would care other than I need to keep paying the loan wether I have the car or not now

It has been serviced by BMW every year and well looked after. It just had its MOT and was booked in for a service for (ironically ) the morning after it broke down so obviously never went.

WoodL

Original Poster:

34 posts

65 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
200Plus Club said:
I don't think it's connected to a timing chain failure but tbh oil level maintenance is something people don't check and they really should, its so basic.
Apparently it is. If the oil tank is empty then the timing chain jumps off so I've been told 10 times by EH. Evans Halshaw are trying to say that a minimal level is just the same as empty . They are very sharp on the phone and very rude. The 1st mechanic at my local garage said there's no way it would cause it unless it was empty and even then he said he's seen cars run on empty . It was just at his garage about 2 weeks ago for an MOT !

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
WoodL said:
Could an oil tank at that level be the actual cause ? There was a burning smell just before it happened. I've never owned a mini before but I had been topping up the oil every 2 months sometimes more sometimes less

As I said there was no low oil warning light on my dash

I just feel mini and Evans Halshaw will try to get out of the repair and I will be left with no car . What's the point of taking out a £400 extended warranty if it doesn't cover faults or mechanical failures ?

Would a new engine be more than the car is worth ?I think it's worth about 8.5k at present time .

It has been serviced by mini every year and passed it MOT 2 weeks ago with flying colours. I do drive 46 miles x 5 days in it
How often do you check the oil level?

WonkeyDonkey

2,333 posts

102 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
WoodL said:
Apparently it is. If the oil tank is empty then the timing chain jumps off so I've been told 10 times by EH. Evans Halshaw are trying to say that a minimal level is just the same as empty . They are very sharp on the phone and very rude. The 1st mechanic at my local garage said there's no way it would cause it unless it was empty and even then he said he's seen cars run on empty . It was just at his garage about 2 weeks ago for an MOT !
I'm not a mechanic but I really wouldn't think oil at low would cause the timing chain to snap. EH just want you to go away so they don't have to put their hands in their pockets as they know they will probably have to fix this.

They won't unless they are pushed into doing it though.

WoodL

Original Poster:

34 posts

65 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
How often do you check the oil level?
Every 6 weeks or so sometimes more but sometimes less?

Berkshire bred

985 posts

74 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
I don't see this as your fault, ok maybe careless for letting the oil get low but for normal people who aren't car nuts it's an everyday occurrence.

I suggest compiling some evidence of similar failures in other cars and get your friendly mechanics opinion down on paper. Careful what you say on the phone as these types are like vultures and jump on any little advantage you give them.

WoodL

Original Poster:

34 posts

65 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
Well I am not backing down unless they can properly evidence there findings.

They are now asking me to tow it to Mini and they are hoping that mini will agree with them and then they said they won't be fixing it under the warranty if they do agree with their opinion.

I just feel they will win no matter what.

I'm just hoping surely mini/bmw wouldn't say that would happen otherwise there not saying much about the quality for their cars.

seveb

308 posts

72 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
There is no way the oil level being at the minimum level would result in a timing chain failing.

If the oil warning light was not on - then the chain broke because it's faulty or there was another fault which stopped the engine and snapped the chain. The oil warning light is there for a reason - to warn you that damage is likely to be caused if you continue, so if the light was not on then the failure is not due to low oil level - especially if the oil was only at the bottom level on the dipstick.

Most car manuals suggest waiting until the oil is at the bottom level on the dipstick before topping up because the difference between the top and bottom marks is usually 1 litre and oil is sold in 1 litre bottles.

WoodL

Original Poster:

34 posts

65 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
Yeah the 1st mechanic that saw it said the same thing . He said 100% it was some sort of fault. EH tried to say the oil tank was empty when they 1st spoke to me. Then the mechanic called EH and they then back tracked to saying the oil level was just 'slightly below 'the minimum level and that's caused the timing chain to jump off. I argued back to say it wasn't below the min level and that woukdnt cause that to happen. They are just trying to get out of the repair which makes it difficult for me as I know nothing about cars and they do.

Ninja59

3,691 posts

111 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
It will have an N47 BMW engine which is very common to have issues regarding timing chain wear and eventually snapping. How a mechanic has never heard of the N47 issues is beyond me.

Has it had a whirring, whooshing or "ticking" noises before snapping that you have noticed recently?

Chances are (I am not 100% certain if the timing is chain significantly for mini) that the top chain has failed over the other chains, although it might be other parts of the timing chain system where the tensioner has run out of travel, the timing chain guides get chewed and break apart.

In regards to oil levels they are essential to maintaining lubrication as the system has an oil sprayer, so I do think having low oil whether you like it or not if it is below min then it is "low", I would get that "fact" checked though. BUT equally the issues in regards to the N47 timing chains are so common that I think you might be met with a halfway house.

What mileage is on the car?

Edited by Ninja59 on Sunday 28th October 17:02

Chromegrill

1,067 posts

85 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
quotequote all
Oil is often ( but not required to be) checked at MoT which was only two weeks ago. Do you know if it was?

If so, how often should you check oil levels? According to Mini every six weeks isn't often enough if that's your personal maintenane routine and they are accusing you of not checking often enough. Indeed every two weeks isn't enough either. What do they suggest? Daily? Before each time you turn on the engine?

Come to think of it, if it's that critical not to drive with low oil levels why not have a dashboard warning light that comes when the levels get too low?

(Ducks for cover...)