RE: Manthey takes 7 seconds off GT2 RS 'ring time

[Oakman]

No one's mentioned "price" yet.......

Ok so I have, how much for Manthey to do the necessary on your GT2 RS ?

Not that it will be remotely testing my financial resources :-))

[anonymous-user]

Leonardo101 said:

Does anyone care about pointless ring times!

Yes. Run along.

[BaronVonVaderham]

Leonardo101 said:

Does anyone care about pointless ring times!

Yes. It’s the single best metric we have to compare fast cars.

[Don Colione]

Since (some) of you care so much about ring times...

I told you something is up there.

The true record (before the track was definitely changed) was held by the Radical SR8/LM(‘05/’09); which was basically a race car in both iterations (6.55/6.48), but was still acknowledged as the overall leader:

https://www.evo.co.uk/videos/8029/radical-sr8-smas...
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1034465_radica...

For “road legal” production cars…

In 2009, the Gumpert Apollo(7.11) held the “record” for a number of years:

https://www.motor1.com/news/17004/gumpert-apollo-s...
https://jalopnik.com/5341051/gumpert-apollo-sport-...

The LFA Nurburgring Edition then set the “mainstream time” of (7.14.64) in 2011 in stock form(with rollcage). This was still only considered the 4th fastest time at that juncture:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/video-find-zr-what...


The Dodge Viper SRT-10 then took the record from the LFA, within a month at (7.12.13), in a ‘tweaked’ iteration:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a322...

The Lexus and Viper shattered the claimed (7.18) by Tim Glick in the Porsche 911GT2 RS 997, and beat other notable heavy hitters such as the Pagani Zonda F, Porsche Carrera GT, Ferrari Enzo!


Time moved on... Then the “Hypercar Revolution” took place, with the “Hypercar Trinity” taking stage, and supposed track bragging rights.

The Porsche 918 Spyder stepped up to the plate and took the record at (6.57) in 2013.

Crucially, the Porsche eclipsed the elusive “7 minute” mark, which was only broken before then by the Radical and the non-production Ferrari 599XX in 2010: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/motoring-is...


McLaren tested the P1 there, but didn’t reveal the lap time because they obviously didn’t break the record.


Within a year of the 918 record, Koenigsegg sought to beat the time; in 2015:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/keep-calm-and-de...
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1034571_koenig...

However, there was a NISMO race car crash in March 2015, which caused Germany to shut down the track, so that “alterations” could be made to make it "more safe"! (Why didn’t they just relocate the bleacher/fan sections and make larger runoff areas?)

“Speed limits” were also now put in place:

To quote… “So while there's not an outright ban, it's effectively impossible for cars like the One:1 to match the blistering pace set by rivals like the McLaren P1 (allegedly "6:30 something"), Porsche 918 Spyder (6:57), or the Lamborghini Aventador SV (6:59). To give an idea of just how hobbled the Koenigsegg would be on the speed-limited 'Ring, Musial wrote that von Koenigsegg estimated the One:1 could hit 186 miles per hour at Tiergarten, a straight following the left-hand kink after the long run through Döttinger Höhe – that same section is now limited to 124 mph.

Other speed limits around the track include 124-mph zones at Flugplatz, Schwedenkreuz, and Antoniusbuche, all of which are known for cars catching air. There's also the 155-mph limit along Döttinger Höhe, the long straight where Touristenfahrten cars enter and exit the track.

It's unclear if or when these limits will ever be relaxed. But for the time being, don't expect to hear much about sub-seven-minute Ring runs.”

https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a254...
https://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/19/no-more-nurbur...


After the re-opening of the track… VAG subsidiary Lamborghini; was the first to eclipse the 7.00 minute mark in an AVENTADOR SVJ (6.59.73).
The VAG Group(confirmed cheaters) now subsequently owns all the top records(In very short order) and all of them are substantially under the 7 minute mark!

How did this happen in such a short period of time??

Even the (fat) Mercedes AMG GT 63 S has now set a time that is a few ticks off an Enzo and Zonda??

A re-calibration needs to be done on the Nurburgring to see just how much the track has really been altered. An objective source needs to bring back some of the older cars to see what time they set on this current iteration of the track. Then we will get a relative gauge of how much the overall time has been altered/reduced...

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife

[Gandahar]

Don Colione said:

Since (some) of you care so much about ring times...

I told you something is up there.

The true record (before the track was definitely changed) was held by the Radical SR8/LM(‘05/’09); which was basically a race car in both iterations (6.55/6.48), but was still acknowledged as the overall leader:

https://www.evo.co.uk/videos/8029/radical-sr8-smas...
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1034465_radica...

For “road legal” production cars…

In 2009, the Gumpert Apollo(7.11) held the “record” for a number of years:

https://www.motor1.com/news/17004/gumpert-apollo-s...
https://jalopnik.com/5341051/gumpert-apollo-sport-...

The LFA Nurburgring Edition then set the “mainstream time” of (7.14.64) in 2011 in stock form(with rollcage). This was still only considered the 4th fastest time at that juncture:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/video-find-zr-what...


The Dodge Viper SRT-10 then took the record from the LFA, within a month at (7.12.13), in a ‘tweaked’ iteration:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a322...

The Lexus and Viper shattered the claimed (7.18) by Tim Glick in the Porsche 911GT2 RS 997, and beat other notable heavy hitters such as the Pagani Zonda F, Porsche Carrera GT, Ferrari Enzo!


Time moved on... Then the “Hypercar Revolution” took place, with the “Hypercar Trinity” taking stage, and supposed track bragging rights.

The Porsche 918 Spyder stepped up to the plate and took the record at (6.57) in 2013.

Crucially, the Porsche eclipsed the elusive “7 minute” mark, which was only broken before then by the Radical and the non-production Ferrari 599XX in 2010: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/motoring-is...


McLaren tested the P1 there, but didn’t reveal the lap time because they obviously didn’t break the record.


Within a year of the 918 record, Koenigsegg sought to beat the time; in 2015:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/keep-calm-and-de...
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1034571_koenig...

However, there was a NISMO race car crash in March 2015, which caused Germany to shut down the track, so that “alterations” could be made to make it "more safe"! (Why didn’t they just relocate the bleacher/fan sections and make larger runoff areas?)

“Speed limits” were also now put in place:

To quote… “So while there's not an outright ban, it's effectively impossible for cars like the One:1 to match the blistering pace set by rivals like the McLaren P1 (allegedly "6:30 something"), Porsche 918 Spyder (6:57), or the Lamborghini Aventador SV (6:59). To give an idea of just how hobbled the Koenigsegg would be on the speed-limited 'Ring, Musial wrote that von Koenigsegg estimated the One:1 could hit 186 miles per hour at Tiergarten, a straight following the left-hand kink after the long run through Döttinger Höhe – that same section is now limited to 124 mph.

Other speed limits around the track include 124-mph zones at Flugplatz, Schwedenkreuz, and Antoniusbuche, all of which are known for cars catching air. There's also the 155-mph limit along Döttinger Höhe, the long straight where Touristenfahrten cars enter and exit the track.

It's unclear if or when these limits will ever be relaxed. But for the time being, don't expect to hear much about sub-seven-minute Ring runs.”

https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a254...
https://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/19/no-more-nurbur...


After the re-opening of the track… VAG subsidiary Lamborghini; was the first to eclipse the 7.00 minute mark in an AVENTADOR SVJ (6.59.73).
The VAG Group(confirmed cheaters) now subsequently owns all the top records(In very short order) and all of them are substantially under the 7 minute mark!

How did this happen in such a short period of time??

Even the (fat) Mercedes AMG GT 63 S has now set a time that is a few ticks off an Enzo and Zonda??

A re-calibration needs to be done on the Nurburgring to see just how much the track has really been altered. An objective source needs to bring back some of the older cars to see what time they set on this current iteration of the track. Then we will get a relative gauge of how much the overall time has been altered/reduced...

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife

You need to give us the above with the tyres they used at the time because tyres are in an arms war at the moment and I think that times have tumbled because of that more so than the cars getting massively better. Michelin had the Cup tyre and then the Cup 2. Pirelli brought out the Trofeo R which allowed Lambo in Hurucan and Aventador guises to post fast laps ( with a great driver). Now Michelin have brought out the Cup R tyres

Now within 30 seconds of Bellof time ( the one that matters )....... for road cars.

Nuts.

[Ahonen]

Don Colione said:

I told you something is up there.

A re-calibration needs to be done on the Nurburgring to see just how much the track has really been altered. An objective source needs to bring back some of the older cars to see what time they set on this current iteration of the track. Then we will get a relative gauge of how much the overall time has been altered/reduced...

I tell you what, I have friends at Manthey so I'll ask them in Macau in a couple of weeks. They will laugh at your conspiracy theory.

[Gandahar]

Don Colione said:

“Speed limits” were also now put in place:

To quote… “So while there's not an outright ban, it's effectively impossible for cars like the One:1 to match the blistering pace set by rivals like the McLaren P1 (allegedly "6:30 something"), Porsche 918 Spyder (6:57), or the Lamborghini Aventador SV (6:59). To give an idea of just how hobbled the Koenigsegg would be on the speed-limited 'Ring, Musial wrote that von Koenigsegg estimated the One:1 could hit 186 miles per hour at Tiergarten, a straight following the left-hand kink after the long run through Döttinger Höhe – that same section is now limited to 124 mph.

Other speed limits around the track include 124-mph zones at Flugplatz, Schwedenkreuz, and Antoniusbuche, all of which are known for cars catching air. There's also the 155-mph limit along Döttinger Höhe, the long straight where Touristenfahrten cars enter and exit the track.

It's unclear if or when these limits will ever be relaxed. But for the time being, don't expect to hear much about sub-seven-minute Ring runs.”

"There's also the 155-mph limit along Döttinger Höhe, the long straight where Touristenfahrten cars enter and exit the track."

Well the Manthey Porche in the clip above did 308km/h in that "speed limited" part of the track. Did you watch the video or just cut and paste things you have read?

When the Porsche 919 Evo did that part of the track at 369km/h which is 229mph. The only reason it did not go faster is a limitation on the engineering side of it. You can see it being limited here

https://youtu.be/qetSEn4xPY8?t=297

So what is all this talk of limiting to certain speeds?

[Gandahar]

Ahonen said:

Don Colione said:

I told you something is up there.

A re-calibration needs to be done on the Nurburgring to see just how much the track has really been altered. An objective source needs to bring back some of the older cars to see what time they set on this current iteration of the track. Then we will get a relative gauge of how much the overall time has been altered/reduced...

I tell you what, I have friends at Manthey so I'll ask them in Macau in a couple of weeks. They will laugh at your conspiracy theory.

Man reads stuff on internet, does not think about what being read. Talks bks because of that. Shot out of the sky. End of story.

Would not bother your good friends at Manthey with a crank.....

[anonymous-user]

Don Colione said:

Since (some) of you care so much about ring times...

I told you something is up there.

The true record (before the track was definitely changed) was held by the Radical SR8/LM(‘05/’09); which was basically a race car in both iterations (6.55/6.48), but was still acknowledged as the overall leader:

https://www.evo.co.uk/videos/8029/radical-sr8-smas...
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1034465_radica...

For “road legal” production cars…

In 2009, the Gumpert Apollo(7.11) held the “record” for a number of years:

https://www.motor1.com/news/17004/gumpert-apollo-s...
https://jalopnik.com/5341051/gumpert-apollo-sport-...

The LFA Nurburgring Edition then set the “mainstream time” of (7.14.64) in 2011 in stock form(with rollcage). This was still only considered the 4th fastest time at that juncture:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/video-find-zr-what...


The Dodge Viper SRT-10 then took the record from the LFA, within a month at (7.12.13), in a ‘tweaked’ iteration:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a322...

The Lexus and Viper shattered the claimed (7.18) by Tim Glick in the Porsche 911GT2 RS 997, and beat other notable heavy hitters such as the Pagani Zonda F, Porsche Carrera GT, Ferrari Enzo!


Time moved on... Then the “Hypercar Revolution” took place, with the “Hypercar Trinity” taking stage, and supposed track bragging rights.

The Porsche 918 Spyder stepped up to the plate and took the record at (6.57) in 2013.

Crucially, the Porsche eclipsed the elusive “7 minute” mark, which was only broken before then by the Radical and the non-production Ferrari 599XX in 2010: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/motoring-is...


McLaren tested the P1 there, but didn’t reveal the lap time because they obviously didn’t break the record.


Within a year of the 918 record, Koenigsegg sought to beat the time; in 2015:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/keep-calm-and-de...
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1034571_koenig...

However, there was a NISMO race car crash in March 2015, which caused Germany to shut down the track, so that “alterations” could be made to make it "more safe"! (Why didn’t they just relocate the bleacher/fan sections and make larger runoff areas?)

“Speed limits” were also now put in place:

To quote… “So while there's not an outright ban, it's effectively impossible for cars like the One:1 to match the blistering pace set by rivals like the McLaren P1 (allegedly "6:30 something"), Porsche 918 Spyder (6:57), or the Lamborghini Aventador SV (6:59). To give an idea of just how hobbled the Koenigsegg would be on the speed-limited 'Ring, Musial wrote that von Koenigsegg estimated the One:1 could hit 186 miles per hour at Tiergarten, a straight following the left-hand kink after the long run through Döttinger Höhe – that same section is now limited to 124 mph.

Other speed limits around the track include 124-mph zones at Flugplatz, Schwedenkreuz, and Antoniusbuche, all of which are known for cars catching air. There's also the 155-mph limit along Döttinger Höhe, the long straight where Touristenfahrten cars enter and exit the track.

It's unclear if or when these limits will ever be relaxed. But for the time being, don't expect to hear much about sub-seven-minute Ring runs.”

https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a254...
https://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/19/no-more-nurbur...


After the re-opening of the track… VAG subsidiary Lamborghini; was the first to eclipse the 7.00 minute mark in an AVENTADOR SVJ (6.59.73).
The VAG Group(confirmed cheaters) now subsequently owns all the top records(In very short order) and all of them are substantially under the 7 minute mark!

How did this happen in such a short period of time??

Even the (fat) Mercedes AMG GT 63 S has now set a time that is a few ticks off an Enzo and Zonda??

A re-calibration needs to be done on the Nurburgring to see just how much the track has really been altered. An objective source needs to bring back some of the older cars to see what time they set on this current iteration of the track. Then we will get a relative gauge of how much the overall time has been altered/reduced...

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife

So what?

[isaldiri]

Ahonen said:

Don Colione said:

I told you something is up there.

A re-calibration needs to be done on the Nurburgring to see just how much the track has really been altered. An objective source needs to bring back some of the older cars to see what time they set on this current iteration of the track. Then we will get a relative gauge of how much the overall time has been altered/reduced...

I tell you what, I have friends at Manthey so I'll ask them in Macau in a couple of weeks. They will laugh at your conspiracy theory.

To be fair, he does have a point. After Flugplatz was reprofiled the track definitely is faster. And recently, they have resurfaced the track more often and it also has imo made the track quicker each time.

The 'easiest' way for someone to put this to the test is for SportAuto to take a 991.1 gt3 and/or gt3 rs, run them on the latest N1/N2 tyres (same size between the gen 1 and 2 and able to run the same tyre) alongside the latest cars. That would show up pretty quickly how much of the improvement in the cars is due to the track/tyre or actually due to real improvements in the car.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

The new Flugplatz is definitely miles faster (and easier), the point is that you then carry an enormous speed advantage down to Schweidenkreutz from there on in.

[Sandpit Steve]

Gandahar said:

You need to give us the above with the tyres they used at the time because tyres are in an arms war at the moment and I think that times have tumbled because of that more so than the cars getting massively better. Michelin had the Cup tyre and then the Cup 2. Pirelli brought out the Trofeo R which allowed Lambo in Hurucan and Aventador guises to post fast laps ( with a great driver). Now Michelin have brought out the Cup R tyres

Now within 30 seconds of Bellof time ( the one that matters )....... for road cars.

Nuts.

Yes, it’s astonishing how close we now are to Bellof’s amazing time, in cars with numberplates and road tyres and meeting emissions laws.

If the Senna doesn’t break 6’11” this year, the AMG One certainly should next year, and the rate of progress doesn’t show any sign of slowing up. Thankfully not all engineers are working on self-driving electric econoboxes, so we are seeing more powerful engines, stickier tyres and better chassis all the time.

There were reasons behind Porsche sending their de-restricted LMP 919 around the ‘Ring, to make sure the absolute record stays firmly with their grasp - until someone is mad enough to send an F1 car around!

[DoubleD]

Leonardo101 said:

Does anyone care about pointless ring times!

Pointless and absolutely fantastic all at the same time.

[RDMcG]

isaldiri said:

To be fair, he does have a point. After Flugplatz was reprofiled the track definitely is faster. And recently, they have resurfaced the track more often and it also has imo made the track quicker each time.

The 'easiest' way for someone to put this to the test is for SportAuto to take a 991.1 gt3 and/or gt3 rs, run them on the latest N1/N2 tyres (same size between the gen 1 and 2 and able to run the same tyre) alongside the latest cars. That would show up pretty quickly how much of the improvement in the cars is due to the track/tyre or actually due to real improvements in the car.

I plan on the tire upgrade on my 991.1RS but of course the problem is that I do not have a new set of the older tires so all subjective. Would love to see a proper test.

[Debaser]

Leonardo101 said:

Does anyone care about pointless ring times!

Yes.


Well done Manthey and Porsche!

[anonymous-user]

Sandpit Steve said:

...
If the Senna doesn’t break 6’11” this year....

Not a chance IMO but are they going to try? What are they waiting for; snow?

[Tickle]

fblm said:

Sandpit Steve said:

...
If the Senna doesn’t break 6’11” this year....

Not a chance IMO but are they going to try? What are they waiting for; snow?

Sling some winters on it, should be fine.

[johnwilliams77]

Leonardo101 said:

Does anyone care about pointless ring times!

Yup. Thanks for asking.

[Sandpit Steve]

fblm said:

Sandpit Steve said:

...
If the Senna doesn’t break 6’11” this year....

Not a chance IMO but are they going to try? What are they waiting for; snow?

Well quite. You’d have at least thought they’d have had a go, given all the comments about it looking, err, functional. Everyone who’s driven it says it’s mighty quick, and it’s got way more power and way less weight than the GT2RS.

I did suggest on here a few months ago that McLaren should have teamed up with Top Gear - book the place out for the day, get Bruno Senna, Sabine and the Monkey (and maybe a ‘Stig’) running round with a TV crew. Would be great television and fantastic marketing if they could make it happen.

[wc98]

Onehp said:

Well it is the same driver, on more or less the same weather, and no traffic obviously. 7s is huge at the very edge... On the straight, 7s means you're almost 600m behind... That's much more than nothing...

Edited by Onehp on Friday 2nd November 15:27

i might be wrong but i suspect the standard car might be a bit faster along the straight given the extra aero on this car. what a stunning lap,really enjoyed watching.