RE: New EU law could effectively ban motorsport
Discussion
HustleRussell said:
Clickbait title, scaremongering and then climbdown in the final paragraph. PH articles beginning to conform to type with the sponsored content at the foot of the page.
It drives traffic, that’s what PH want these days. Why else would they encourage a forum full of self righteous small minded types to judge others based on being ‘council’ of having the ‘wrong’ mods on their cars or ‘chav’ number plates etc etc. Jeez, Some of you clearly don't read half of the posts.
This is really happening with, as yet, no solution. That's not to say there wont be, but the more people aware of it the better chance we have of having an amendment to the directive that suits all.
Just because it sounds ludicrous, doesn't mean it's not happening.
This is really happening with, as yet, no solution. That's not to say there wont be, but the more people aware of it the better chance we have of having an amendment to the directive that suits all.
Just because it sounds ludicrous, doesn't mean it's not happening.
r.g. said:
Jeez, Some of you clearly don't read half of the posts.
This is really happening with, as yet, no solution. That's not to say there wont be, but the more people aware of it the better chance we have of having an amendment to the directive that suits all.
Just because it sounds ludicrous, doesn't mean it's not happening.
Um despite the best efforts of some useful idiots we are hopefully going to leave the EUSSR next year,This is really happening with, as yet, no solution. That's not to say there wont be, but the more people aware of it the better chance we have of having an amendment to the directive that suits all.
Just because it sounds ludicrous, doesn't mean it's not happening.
maybe we can become the motorsport capital of Europe once we are free of the dead hand of EU bureaucracy ???
Ranger 6 said:
The MSA have been working on VNUK for years - why has it taken Haymarket so long to pick up on it.......?
Don't know but I guess its only recently started to become a reality. I'm sure a solution will be found but it is a concern to the MSA and MIA who have been lobbying government for some time on the issueBearing in mind motorsport accidents have given rise to their own regulations, it seems absurd that a farm accident could lead to such broad legislation, even discounting any implications for racing.
I don't think the media necessarily need to spin stories as 'EU rules are killing something you love' for people to take exception to the scope of such laws any more than they would to knee-jerk sweeping UK laws.
I don't think the media necessarily need to spin stories as 'EU rules are killing something you love' for people to take exception to the scope of such laws any more than they would to knee-jerk sweeping UK laws.
powerstroke said:
Um despite the best efforts of some useful idiots we are hopefully going to leave the EUSSR next year,
maybe we can become the motorsport capital of Europe once we are free of the dead hand of EU bureaucracy ???
When/if we leave day one the default position is we adopt all EU directives which then need to be revoked. I doubt this will be top of the list. maybe we can become the motorsport capital of Europe once we are free of the dead hand of EU bureaucracy ???
r.g. said:
Jeez, Some of you clearly don't read half of the posts.
This is really happening with, as yet, no solution. That's not to say there wont be, but the more people aware of it the better chance we have of having an amendment to the directive that suits all.
Just because it sounds ludicrous, doesn't mean it's not happening.
There are two very different things here. The “journalism” displayed here is appalling, that is independent of what is going on with the EU. The title and the story simply do not match and the inference that the headline puts forward is contradicted in the article itself.This is really happening with, as yet, no solution. That's not to say there wont be, but the more people aware of it the better chance we have of having an amendment to the directive that suits all.
Just because it sounds ludicrous, doesn't mean it's not happening.
That is dreadful journalism and the basis of the comments rather than anything the EU might or might not do.
jfire said:
... does anyone want to assess the actual wording of the law and declare they are in favour of it in its current form?
The lawyers seem to think its a serious enough issue. Here’s some more “shameful click bait” in the law gazette...https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice-points/has-t...
Perhaps any of the EU’s useful idiots present would care to comment on; “The Association of British Insurers said: 'The Commission will be aware that in Finland, where a compulsory insurance requirement for motorsport competitors was introduced, average premiums have increased dramatically (from an initial average of €200 to a more recent average of €4000, with much higher premiums charged for some events).”
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 7th November 13:16
fblm said:
jfire said:
... does anyone want to assess the actual wording of the law and declare they are in favour of it in its current form?
The lawyers seem to think its a serious enough issue. https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice-points/has-t...
Perhaps any of the EU’s useful idiots present would care to comment on; “The Association of British Insurers said: 'The Commission will be aware that in Finland, where a compulsory insurance requirement for motorsport competitors was introduced, average premiums have increased dramatically (from an initial average of €200 to a more recent average of €4000, with much higher premiums charged for some events).”
fblm said:
jfire said:
... does anyone want to assess the actual wording of the law and declare they are in favour of it in its current form?
The lawyers seem to think its a serious enough issue. https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice-points/has-t...
Perhaps any of the EU’s useful idiots present would care to comment on; “The Association of British Insurers said: 'The Commission will be aware that in Finland, where a compulsory insurance requirement for motorsport competitors was introduced, average premiums have increased dramatically (from an initial average of €200 to a more recent average of €4000, with much higher premiums charged for some events).”
Just because it's in the Daily Mail it doesn't mean it's a lie...
If only there was some sort of UK wide Motorsports Sports Association that provided permits and insurance for Motorsports events! Jesus. Pistonheads is officially finished with garbage like this.
www.msauk.org
www.msauk.org
re33 said:
If only there was some sort of UK wide Motorsports Sports Association that provided permits and insurance for Motorsports events! Jesus. Pistonheads is officially finished with garbage like this.
www.msauk.org
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice-points/has-t...www.msauk.org
"We have discussed this matter with Insurance Market specialists based in London, who underwrite and provide the majority of insurance to motorsport organisers across the European Union. They confirm no effective market can, or will, write insurance to meet the Directive-specified levels of liability which requires cover for both property damage and personal injury to fellow motorsport competitors.' "
The directive specifies unlimited 3rd party damages.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 7th November 16:19
fblm said:
re33 said:
If only there was some sort of UK wide Motorsports Sports Association that provided permits and insurance for Motorsports events! Jesus. Pistonheads is officially finished with garbage like this.
www.msauk.org
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice-points/has-t...www.msauk.org
"We have discussed this matter with Insurance Market specialists based in London, who underwrite and provide the majority of insurance to motorsport organisers across the European Union. They confirm no effective market can, or will, write insurance to meet the Directive-specified levels of liability which requires cover for both property damage and personal injury to fellow motorsport competitors.' "
The directive specifies unlimited 3rd party damages.
Edited by fblm on Wednesday 7th November 16:19
In the case of "fellow motorsport competitors" who would be claiming off this insurance? Anyway my main point was that the article is click bait nonsense, as the member states don't have to apply it as per the last paragraph. This article has more response than the last 6 months of motorsport's articles put together, so I expect more rubbish to follow.
"But before our recently crowned five-time champ hangs up his helmet for good, it seems that, from a UK perspective at least, the law is due to receive appropriate alteration to enable racing without insurance. Most other EU members are also yet to integrate the EU's changes into their national legislation, so there's a strong chance motorsport will be enabled in each country individually via their own adjustments to law. Or, alternatively, Hamilton might find himself dipping into the pension pot a little earlier than planned. He has hinted at a career in the music industry..."
A directive is something that a country must implement in its own way and may, to a degree, interpret. A regulation is an 'actual' EU law which then has direct effect.
Thus this 'law' is not a law at all, but should be implemented by the 28 (27 soon) Member States. It'll be interesting to see how they legislate around it.
From where I'm sitting I think everything will be absolutely fine and this is a story created as much to fill column inches as it is to worry about in the courts. What you will notice though as how few people either Remain or Leave actually understand the law-making process of the EU. Which is a bit worrying when these people would tell you which way to vote on the issue.
I'm off to prepare for a trackday tomorrow - for which I am fully insured. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, EU!
Thus this 'law' is not a law at all, but should be implemented by the 28 (27 soon) Member States. It'll be interesting to see how they legislate around it.
From where I'm sitting I think everything will be absolutely fine and this is a story created as much to fill column inches as it is to worry about in the courts. What you will notice though as how few people either Remain or Leave actually understand the law-making process of the EU. Which is a bit worrying when these people would tell you which way to vote on the issue.
I'm off to prepare for a trackday tomorrow - for which I am fully insured. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, EU!
re33 said:
fblm said:
re33 said:
If only there was some sort of UK wide Motorsports Sports Association that provided permits and insurance for Motorsports events! Jesus. Pistonheads is officially finished with garbage like this.
www.msauk.org
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice-points/has-t...www.msauk.org
"We have discussed this matter with Insurance Market specialists based in London, who underwrite and provide the majority of insurance to motorsport organisers across the European Union. They confirm no effective market can, or will, write insurance to meet the Directive-specified levels of liability which requires cover for both property damage and personal injury to fellow motorsport competitors.' "
The directive specifies unlimited 3rd party damages.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 7th November 16:19
In the case of "fellow motorsport competitors" who would be claiming off this insurance? Anyway my main point was that the article is click bait nonsense, as the member states don't have to apply it as per the last paragraph. This article has more response than the last 6 months of motorsport's articles put together, so I expect more rubbish to follow.
"But before our recently crowned five-time champ hangs up his helmet for good, it seems that, from a UK perspective at least, the law is due to receive appropriate alteration to enable racing without insurance. Most other EU members are also yet to integrate the EU's changes into their national legislation, so there's a strong chance motorsport will be enabled in each country individually via their own adjustments to law. Or, alternatively, Hamilton might find himself dipping into the pension pot a little earlier than planned. He has hinted at a career in the music industry..."
Actus Reus said:
A directive is something that a country must implement in its own way and may, to a degree, interpret.
..."to a degree". In this case though the ECJ and the Commission have interpreted and clarified the Directive AND specifically included motorsports, hence the problem."As the European Commission put it in its consultation document: 'The European Court of Justice has clarified in a judgement of 2014 (case C-162/13)…that the concept of the "use of vehicles" covers any use of a motor vehicle that is consistent with the normal function of that vehicle.
'Therefore vehicles used in certain locations (also outside of road traffic) and/or certain activities which might not have been initially understood as being covered are now clarified as covered by the obligation of insurance cover under [the Directive]. Specifically, accidents that are the result of agricultural, construction, industrial, motor sports or fairground activities outside of public roads must now be covered by motor third party liability policies.'
The definition of ‘vehicle’ in the Directive is very wide ('any motor vehicle intended for travel on land and propelled by mechanical power, but not running on rails, and any trailer, whether or not coupled')."
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice-points/has-t...
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