RE: BMW Z4 M40i: Driven

[E65Ross]

RJG46 said:

Ares said:

mikey P 500 said:

The a45 is a 2.0, 4 cylinder the c43 in a SLC is a 3.0 6 cylinder. Not an expert on BMW history just commenting it seems strange that in same show room will be cars that are priced so far apart sharing the engine, they could have least added a remap for the Z4 to give a little extra power to offset weight of car.

Offset the weight compared to what?

The 1100kg, all aluminium Alpine.

Alfa 4C.

Lotus Elise.

Firstly, those cars are in a different class/category of cars. Spend a day driving them on mundane trips to/from work, along a motorway etc and you'll soon see where some of that extra weight goes (NVH).

Secondly, if those cars are so good because of their weight, how come the old, heavier Z4, outsells them all put together? Because most people don't want a stripped out, bare-bones car.

Thirdly, are all of those cars listed convertibles with electric folding roofs?

[Ares]

E65Ross said:

Firstly, those cars are in a different class/category of cars. Spend a day driving them on mundane trips to/from work, along a motorway etc and you'll soon see where some of that extra weight goes (NVH).

Secondly, if those cars are so good because of their weight, how come the old, heavier Z4, outsells them all put together? Because most people don't want a stripped out, bare-bones car.

Thirdly, are all of those cars listed convertibles with electric folding roofs?

I suspect the biggest reason for favourable comparison is that they aren't BMWs

[Bobskirs6]

Looks like BMW and Mercedes had a baby and it all went horribly wrong.

[Julian Thompson]

mhurley said:

I think it will sell less than the last gen

I don’t, but only because I think BMW have built this at a very modest cost and that they have plonked a ridiculous retail price on it, allowing them to support it with huge incentives. Would it look better value at £30k? Coming to a phone near you soon, in my opinion....

[underphil]

mikey P 500 said:

E65Ross said:

Quiet you, don't bring your logical arguments against Mikey P 500

Neither of your examples were a top of the range sports car sharing an engine and performance with smallest cheapest hatch back from same company. Obviously lots larger cars share engines with smaller cars, the decision here is how large a car you want.
but selling a sports car that has worse performance than the cheaper hatch back seems odd to me, but obviously not the majority so I will stand corrected that it wouldn't bother everyone else. Most clearly only want a sports car for looks not performance.

Alfa's 4C was about £50K and shared the same engine as the Giulietta QV that was near half the price

[RJG46]

E65Ross said:

RJG46 said:

Ares said:

mikey P 500 said:

The a45 is a 2.0, 4 cylinder the c43 in a SLC is a 3.0 6 cylinder. Not an expert on BMW history just commenting it seems strange that in same show room will be cars that are priced so far apart sharing the engine, they could have least added a remap for the Z4 to give a little extra power to offset weight of car.

Offset the weight compared to what?

The 1100kg, all aluminium Alpine.

Alfa 4C.

Lotus Elise.

Firstly, those cars are in a different class/category of cars. Spend a day driving them on mundane trips to/from work, along a motorway etc and you'll soon see where some of that extra weight goes (NVH).

Secondly, if those cars are so good because of their weight, how come the old, heavier Z4, outsells them all put together? Because most people don't want a stripped out, bare-bones car.

How do you know? The Alpine isn't here yet. I see very few Z4s around. The 4C looks great but wasn't very well reviewed and sold accordingly. The Elise has been around forever and long overdue a replacement.

Edited by RJG46 on Thursday 8th November 14:42

[Ares]

RJG46 said:

E65Ross said:

RJG46 said:

Ares said:

mikey P 500 said:

The a45 is a 2.0, 4 cylinder the c43 in a SLC is a 3.0 6 cylinder. Not an expert on BMW history just commenting it seems strange that in same show room will be cars that are priced so far apart sharing the engine, they could have least added a remap for the Z4 to give a little extra power to offset weight of car.

Offset the weight compared to what?

The 1100kg, all aluminium Alpine.

Alfa 4C.

Lotus Elise.

Firstly, those cars are in a different class/category of cars. Spend a day driving them on mundane trips to/from work, along a motorway etc and you'll soon see where some of that extra weight goes (NVH).

Secondly, if those cars are so good because of their weight, how come the old, heavier Z4, outsells them all put together? Because most people don't want a stripped out, bare-bones car.

How do you know? The Alpine isn't here yet. I see very few Z4s around. The 4C looks great but wasn't very well reviewed and sold accordingly. The Elise has been around forever and long overdue a replacement.

Edited by RJG46 on Thursday 8th November 14:42

1,000 or so have been sold in Europe though....

[WJNB]

None of our criticisms is of any consequence whatsoever.
It's a BMW a better badge than a Mazda & more youthful & flash than a Mercedes. Those who have no understanding of what a sports car is all about, poseurs & the ladies will love it as a statement piece & as far as BMW is concerned that's all that matters.
I so agree that the concept did look exciting but we should all know by now such promises are never fulfilled.

[Ares]

WJNB said:

None of our criticisms is of any consequence whatsoever.
It's a BMW a better badge than a Mazda & more youthful & flash than a Mercedes. Those who have no understanding of what a sports car is all about, poseurs & the ladies will love it as a statement piece & as far as BMW is concerned that's all that matters.
I so agree that the concept did look exciting but we should all know by now such promises are never fulfilled.

Concepts are never to be taken as 'promises', they are 'concepts', styling cues which get put through 'production', 'finance' and 'HSE' departments and toned down.

This is no different.

[mikey P 500]

Ares said:

Offset the weight compared to what?

Compared to the lighter also front engine rear wheel drive m140i that's next to it in the showroom costing £20k less, using the same engine with the same level of tune.
I can't be the only one on piston heads who thinks this is the better value option (Sunday services was full of 140i and 135i I can't see this z4 being as popular among pistonheads.

[LuS1fer]

WJNB said:

It's a BMW a better badge than a Mazda & more youthful & flash than a Mercedes.

Maybe once but not any more.
I see more and more young moro.....erm people aspiring to a leased Merc A-Class than BMWs - not surprising since the smaller BMWs are well...a bit ugly. Not that I think the A class is a looker but my, they love that bling 3 pointed grille.
Other than that, most have the Audi A1 and 3 as second choice.

[Ares]

mikey P 500 said:

Ares said:

Offset the weight compared to what?

Compared to the lighter also front engine rear wheel drive m140i that's next to it in the showroom costing £20k less, using the same engine with the same level of tune.
I can't be the only one on piston heads who thinks this is the better value option (Sunday services was full of 140i and 135i I can't see this z4 being as popular among pistonheads.

That will be the slower, 1,525kg, £36,000 M140i?

You're really surprised that the soft-top sports car is more expensive than the (bigger) tintop.... Has that ever NOT been the case?

[TwinExit]

E65Ross said:

Secondly, if those cars are so good because of their weight, how come the old, heavier Z4, outsells them all put together? Because most people don't want a stripped out, bare-bones car.

Because the Z4 is a cabriolet, there it thrives in a distinct image/lifestyle conscious market (and substantially more lucrative) to that of the low weight sports cars segment.

[Ares]

LuS1fer said:

Maybe once but not any more.
I see more and more young moro.....erm people aspiring to a leased Merc A-Class than BMWs - not surprising since the smaller BMWs are well...a bit ugly. Not that I think the A class is a looker but my, they love that bling 3 pointed grille.
Other than that, most have the Audi A1 and 3 as second choice.

In fairness....people haven't aspired to leasing an A-Class. They've leased an A-Class in the last 12/18mths as the outgoing model was available for 50p & a bag of quavers per month. Now the new one is out, and rates are back to 'normal', they'll be a lot less popular.

[Chestrockwell]

LuS1fer said:

WJNB said:

It's a BMW a better badge than a Mazda & more youthful & flash than a Mercedes.

Maybe once but not any more.
I see more and more young moro.....erm people aspiring to a leased Merc A-Class than BMWs - not surprising since the smaller BMWs are well...a bit ugly. Not that I think the A class is a looker but my, they love that bling 3 pointed grille.
Other than that, most have the Audi A1 and 3 as second choice.

This may not be relevant, but I don’t think these Merc buyers are there to stay. There will be some judging here but this is a public forum where we are all anonymous so fk it.

Every person I see in an A class or CLA are the same, you can’t make it up. Always either an A160 or A180d AMG Line without the xenons. All showoffs in their tracksuit bottoms and trainers. If it’s not that, it’s the female equivalent.

It’s all down to cheap lease deals (I still get weekly emails of stock A classes going cheap) and credit that’s easy to obtain. None of them are buyers or returning customers unlike BMW.

Leasing a BMW is hard work, not only are they nowhere near as cheap as Mercs, but there’s always a 12 week wait and this sways people towards Mercs.

I’m no expert on this matter and this is a pure guess but I get the impression MB UK are pumping out thousands of Mercs left right center to fill the roads with their cars at a cheap price to blind is with them, why? Because they’re not the Manufacturer they once were.

I feel as if BMW buyers are people who have a genuine passion/taste in cars that go to them because that’s what they want. Where as with Merc buyers/leaser’s, they just go for whatever’s the flashiest, cheapest and quickest.

[ocrx8]

Chestrockwell said:

Every person I see in an A class or CLA are the same, you can’t make it up. Always either an A160 or A180d AMG Line without the xenons. All showoffs in their tracksuit bottoms and trainers. If it’s not that, it’s the female equivalent.

Off-topic but this sums up a former colleague almost perfectly. And all they’d go on about was how they had an AMG. Awful.

On-topic, the new Z4 is a munter, and I say that as a big Z4 fan.

[J4CKO]

The people who buy it wont try to bench press it so they wont be bothered about it being the weight of a normal car and not some diaphanous carbon fibre thing.

They will perhaps look past the looks or even like it, I dont think it looks that bad.

They will buy one, put the roof down and enjoy what I guess will be a fairly pleasant thing to drive, its not a Caterham but it will go faster than most normal people ever need to go, has a pretty decent automatic box and every comfort and convenience you could ever want.

Just because its is a "Sports car", doesnt mean its for you, stick to the nirvana that is an ancient TVR, a Caterfield or Elise and dont worry about whether the punters who buy or more likely lease/PCP these are enjoying them, they probably are and are avoiding crumbling electrics, being wet/cold/deaf and having to be a contortionist to get in and out.

They will go to it on a cold morning, it will start, warm their bottoms, play their Spotify music and do 30 plus to the gallon on any kind of journey where you actually move, they dont have to piss about at weekends "fettling", it just works and you dont have to have another car to use.

They dont want an 20 grand 2 litre 4 cyl MX5 of they are looking at a six cylinder 50 grand BMW, they would probably more likely to get an F Type Jag or a Boxster.

We need to remember its a Sports car, not a racing car, most wont do track days, most probably wont go all that fast.

I dont get that daft attitude about people going to nails bars, gyms and wine bars, I would love to know what super important missions everyone is on, track days and driving around for the sake of it ? not really any more important is it ? you just prefer that, people like different stuff !

[E65Ross]

mikey P 500 said:

Ares said:

Offset the weight compared to what?

Compared to the lighter also front engine rear wheel drive m140i that's next to it in the showroom costing £20k less, using the same engine with the same level of tune.
I can't be the only one on piston heads who thinks this is the better value option (Sunday services was full of 140i and 135i I can't see this z4 being as popular among pistonheads.

It doesn't matter if it's not popular on PH, PH is an insanely small demographic for a car manufacturer. You'd expect the M140i to be more popular than the Z4 M40i because it's cheaper. It's why you see more MX5's to Ferrari 488's. Or is that because the MX5 is lighter and so it's a better car?

TwinExit said:

E65Ross said:

Secondly, if those cars are so good because of their weight, how come the old, heavier Z4, outsells them all put together? Because most people don't want a stripped out, bare-bones car.

Because the Z4 is a cabriolet, there it thrives in a distinct image/lifestyle conscious market (and substantially more lucrative) to that of the low weight sports cars segment.

Kind of my point entirely

[Kenny Powers]

Personally I don’t understand why people can’t just be happy with their choice of car and be happy that others are happy with theirs. I use car forums because I’m interested in cars of all shapes and sizes. I like discussing them but tend not to judge them or the people that buy them. Some I like and some I don’t.

It seems some people use car forums just to bh and moan whilst judging everyone else against their own preferences. Toxic pessimism. Not an attractive character trait. Each to their own though, and at least it gives me something to moan about

[Loyly]

I had high hopes for this car when it was announced, but the final product is a bit disappointing. It looks like a big, fat boulevard cruiser but without the class and luxury of an SL.

The notion of fitting a cloth roof to save weight and then pairing it with a slusher seems ridiculous. This is no scalpel sharp sports car. It reads like two separate teams with two separate design briefs were fighting to take control of the project.