RE: Honda Integra DC2 Type R: Spotted
Discussion
I think we agree - would most likely benefit from some refreshment simply due to it's age if nothing else, but if as good as it looks at first glance then is probably a very good and worthwhile base.
I really miss mine, even nearly 13 years on. If I had the skills to maintain one and somewhere dry to keep it I'd love another - the perfect antidote to modern regulation driven car design.
I really miss mine, even nearly 13 years on. If I had the skills to maintain one and somewhere dry to keep it I'd love another - the perfect antidote to modern regulation driven car design.
Loved my grey import DC2 R back in 2000, I eventually upgraded to a Supra TT and power aside it was a step back, still one of my favourite ever cars, even after owning a near 500 hp car.
Neutral handling and a predictable drift when it did let go, pointy on the nose, grippy in all weather thanks to the LSD, vtec controller fiddling with the screaming changeover... just brilliant, and those seats!
Neutral handling and a predictable drift when it did let go, pointy on the nose, grippy in all weather thanks to the LSD, vtec controller fiddling with the screaming changeover... just brilliant, and those seats!
- goes off to browse classifieds**
chrismc1977 said:
SidewaysSi said:
Yet another DC2 article. They are decent cars but personally I didn't find it a particularly great steer.
Interesting take. What spec/mileage/tyres?I actually prefer my current E36 BMW. Though it is highly modified so probably unfair on the poor old Honda.
For £5k it would be worth a punt but over £10k? No chance.
SidewaysSi said:
Driven from 40k -120k over a number of years. It is a good car but to be frank, it gets destroyed for fun by a proper sports car (as you would expect).
I actually prefer my current E36 BMW. Though it is highly modified so probably unfair on the poor old Honda.
For £5k it would be worth a punt but over £10k? No chance.
Well 80k is a decent time to make a judgement I guess. Did you ever refresh it though?I actually prefer my current E36 BMW. Though it is highly modified so probably unfair on the poor old Honda.
For £5k it would be worth a punt but over £10k? No chance.
My car is now only on 64k but is 18yrs old & is due a full rebush in all honesty. I’ve done a few bits myself but needs tackling as a oner to reap the full benefit.
With the strong reputation the chassis has it goes without saying that it needs keeping on top of....takes me back to the original article. It might appear to be a bargain- but any potential buyers should be realistic :-)
Edited by chrismc1977 on Friday 9th November 07:24
chrismc1977 said:
SidewaysSi said:
Driven from 40k -120k over a number of years. It is a good car but to be frank, it gets destroyed for fun by a proper sports car (as you would expect).
I actually prefer my current E36 BMW. Though it is highly modified so probably unfair on the poor old Honda.
For £5k it would be worth a punt but over £10k? No chance.
Well 80k is a decent time to make a judgement I guess. Did you ever refresh it though?I actually prefer my current E36 BMW. Though it is highly modified so probably unfair on the poor old Honda.
For £5k it would be worth a punt but over £10k? No chance.
My car is now 64k/18yrs & needs a full rebush in all honesty. I’ve done a few bits myself but needs tackling as a oner to reap the full benefit.
Going back to the original article as a ‘classifieds bargain’ on paper, most need a decent refresh to drive properly tbh
You are right in that it need a proper refresh now. So in all honesty to get things done by a specialist will all add up:
Car - £6k
Suspension refresh - £2k at least
Arches - approx £1k a side
Repaint Milano pink - £3k at a guess
It is easily a £10k + car and that is assuming the mechanicals are spot on which they probably aren't (20 years and 100k miles will have taken its toll in some areas) and also will need a refresh.
For me, the time has passed for these cars. Far better options out there for the money.
It's a decent steer (though the steering is its worst element IMO. Has Honda ever produced a car that steers properly?) but something like a (modded) 911 or Elise are quite a few rungs up the involvement/excitement ladder for similar cash.
My old E36 has had all its mechanicals upgraded, total cost is a lot less than this Honda yet it is genuinely a much nicer drive. And it oversteers. A lot and very easily.
One man's meat etc.
SidewaysSi said:
Yet another DC2 article. They are decent cars but personally I didn't find it a particularly great steer.
SidewaysSi said:
It's a decent steer (though the steering is its worst element IMO.
I agree with most of what you said, but I'm baffled by this. Do you mean the actual steering feel? I removed the PAS from mine, and the feel was great! SidewaysSi said:
Mine was quite fresh when bought and I have driven quite a few of them.
You are right in that it need a proper refresh now. So in all honesty to get things done by a specialist will all add up:
Car - £6k
Suspension refresh - £2k at least
Arches - approx £1k a side
Repaint Milano pink - £3k at a guess
It is easily a £10k + car and that is assuming the mechanicals are spot on which they probably aren't (20 years and 100k miles will have taken its toll in some areas) and also will need a refresh.
For me, the time has passed for these cars. Far better options out there for the money.
It's a decent steer (though the steering is its worst element IMO. Has Honda ever produced a car that steers properly?) but something like a (modded) 911 or Elise are quite a few rungs up the involvement/excitement ladder for similar cash.
My old E36 has had all its mechanicals upgraded, total cost is a lot less than this Honda yet it is genuinely a much nicer drive. And it oversteers. A lot and very easily.
One man's meat etc.
Where can you find a lotus elise for 10k?You are right in that it need a proper refresh now. So in all honesty to get things done by a specialist will all add up:
Car - £6k
Suspension refresh - £2k at least
Arches - approx £1k a side
Repaint Milano pink - £3k at a guess
It is easily a £10k + car and that is assuming the mechanicals are spot on which they probably aren't (20 years and 100k miles will have taken its toll in some areas) and also will need a refresh.
For me, the time has passed for these cars. Far better options out there for the money.
It's a decent steer (though the steering is its worst element IMO. Has Honda ever produced a car that steers properly?) but something like a (modded) 911 or Elise are quite a few rungs up the involvement/excitement ladder for similar cash.
My old E36 has had all its mechanicals upgraded, total cost is a lot less than this Honda yet it is genuinely a much nicer drive. And it oversteers. A lot and very easily.
One man's meat etc.
chrismc1977 said:
havoc said:
Without wanting to talk a car I've not seen down, I tend to agree.
Compared vs other classifieds, this DOES look like good value, and if it's a straight car without hidden issues (except probably some rusty arches), then it's up at a fair price for the current market. If I had the driveway space (and a more tolerant wife!
) I'd be tempted to go and look myself.
...but most of these cars will need (and because they used to be down at £3-4k have probably never had)
- new bushes for certain (OE only, or possibly Mugen - avoid polybushes as Honda used differential hardness to 'tune' the handling, and polybushes behave differently)
- plus dampers at some point soon on any car +/- 100k miles
- probably engine mounts, rear wheel bearings and exhaust if not already done due to wear
- ...and as Chris says, red ones are usually now pink - the old red paints used to fade badly and only ones regularly waxed or garaged will have had enough protection from UV. Potentially (!) recoverable by a decent detailer, so may not need a respray...but consider the possibility of repainting the rear arches and the risk of paint mismatch...i.e. try the detailing first!
So you can typically add somewhere around/above £5k to the asking price to get the car back to original fighting fettle...and trust me, you'll want to as they genuinely are that good when fit...only a very noticeable lack of performance below 5,500rpm disappoints.
(Back in the late-90s even that wasn't really an issue, but nowadays there are boggo TDi MPVs and mini-SUVs which will have quicker in-gear performance)
Powertrain, if looked after, is robust (gear linkages can wear, synchro can on occasion too if the driver's been too aggressive with changes, but the B-series 'box is better in that regard than the one on the K-series that replaced it, and the engines only suffer if let run low on oil...which applies to every single car out there), electrics are typical Japanese quality, and build quality overall was from the time when Honda was better than Toyota at such things. The interior is dated but there's little to go wrong - seat bolsters are a cheap (and usually DIY) fix, ICE is well-served by the aftermarket and who's going to regularly have rear-seat passengers in one of these anyway?
This is kinda what I was getting at.Compared vs other classifieds, this DOES look like good value, and if it's a straight car without hidden issues (except probably some rusty arches), then it's up at a fair price for the current market. If I had the driveway space (and a more tolerant wife!
) I'd be tempted to go and look myself....but most of these cars will need (and because they used to be down at £3-4k have probably never had)
- new bushes for certain (OE only, or possibly Mugen - avoid polybushes as Honda used differential hardness to 'tune' the handling, and polybushes behave differently)
- plus dampers at some point soon on any car +/- 100k miles
- probably engine mounts, rear wheel bearings and exhaust if not already done due to wear
- ...and as Chris says, red ones are usually now pink - the old red paints used to fade badly and only ones regularly waxed or garaged will have had enough protection from UV. Potentially (!) recoverable by a decent detailer, so may not need a respray...but consider the possibility of repainting the rear arches and the risk of paint mismatch...i.e. try the detailing first!
So you can typically add somewhere around/above £5k to the asking price to get the car back to original fighting fettle...and trust me, you'll want to as they genuinely are that good when fit...only a very noticeable lack of performance below 5,500rpm disappoints.
(Back in the late-90s even that wasn't really an issue, but nowadays there are boggo TDi MPVs and mini-SUVs which will have quicker in-gear performance)
Powertrain, if looked after, is robust (gear linkages can wear, synchro can on occasion too if the driver's been too aggressive with changes, but the B-series 'box is better in that regard than the one on the K-series that replaced it, and the engines only suffer if let run low on oil...which applies to every single car out there), electrics are typical Japanese quality, and build quality overall was from the time when Honda was better than Toyota at such things. The interior is dated but there's little to go wrong - seat bolsters are a cheap (and usually DIY) fix, ICE is well-served by the aftermarket and who's going to regularly have rear-seat passengers in one of these anyway?
Seems an honest enough car- but some further investment likely required to get it up to ‘fighting fettle’. Very unlikely to jump into it & find it feeling factory fresh & taught.
Other potential weaknesses at such a mileage are the clutch (they are pretty tough due to not many torques but don’t last forever) & rear calipers which tend to bind up over time.
Hardrace also do decent rubber bush kits too- poly not the way to go despite being cheap. OEM all the way for the RTA’s too
Probably worth the investment though, there aren't as many around as there used to be, and it would be lovely to see a restored one. Wish I had the time and space for it.
The odd thing about ITR's is that I've test driven two, albeit quite a few years ago, and wasn't blown away by them, and I still want one and am actively looking for one.
As cars become ever more complicated and cosseting, something raw with a great naturally aspirated engine becomes more appealing.
As for cost, currently I don't think these make sense, adding up the costs as pointed out makes this fairly clear, but since when does buying the majority of cars make sense.
When we're forced to buy cars with essentially the same power train (albeit a very efficient one) akin to our fridge we'll look back to these days with envy.
As cars become ever more complicated and cosseting, something raw with a great naturally aspirated engine becomes more appealing.
As for cost, currently I don't think these make sense, adding up the costs as pointed out makes this fairly clear, but since when does buying the majority of cars make sense.
When we're forced to buy cars with essentially the same power train (albeit a very efficient one) akin to our fridge we'll look back to these days with envy.
Not sure the 911 and Elise comparisons are valid. For either of those I’d expect to spend closer to £20k to buy and get into decent shape.
I’d also expect ongoing running costs to be far lower on a DC2 than most other options once it’s sorted.
Yes the DC2 have appreciated a bit but what hasn’t? I remember when GT3s could be bought for £30k – that doesn’t mean they’re not worth £60k today. Even an E36 is worth double what it was 10 years ago.
And surely appreciation has to be a good thing – meaning that you might have a chance of recovering some of the money you sink into the car.
I’d also expect ongoing running costs to be far lower on a DC2 than most other options once it’s sorted.
Yes the DC2 have appreciated a bit but what hasn’t? I remember when GT3s could be bought for £30k – that doesn’t mean they’re not worth £60k today. Even an E36 is worth double what it was 10 years ago.
And surely appreciation has to be a good thing – meaning that you might have a chance of recovering some of the money you sink into the car.
plenty said:
Not sure the 911 and Elise comparisons are valid. For either of those I’d expect to spend closer to £20k to buy and get into decent shape.
I’d also expect ongoing running costs to be far lower on a DC2 than most other options once it’s sorted.
Yes the DC2 have appreciated a bit but what hasn’t? I remember when GT3s could be bought for £30k – that doesn’t mean they’re not worth £60k today. Even an E36 is worth double what it was 10 years ago.
I’d also expect ongoing running costs to be far lower on a DC2 than most other options once it’s sorted.
Yes the DC2 have appreciated a bit but what hasn’t? I remember when GT3s could be bought for £30k – that doesn’t mean they’re not worth £60k today. Even an E36 is worth double what it was 10 years ago.
Once fit the running costs of a DC2 are peanuts compared to ANY Porsche, and unlike an S1/S2 Elise it's not going to need regular fettling/fixing...
So you can't really compare a £6k 'teg needing £5k of work with a £14k Porsche needing ??? work, and needing 2-3x the annual running costs.
(Still tempted by a 996 though...)
https://youtu.be/2iM99fgG8K4
Mine had vtec controller making it rev to 9k along with decat and 4 inch backbox was way to loud. Handling was becoming very ropey that was around 2013 would of needed a complete suspension overhaul at that point don't no if that is a weak point on them along with rusty arches and crunchy gearbox!
Mine had vtec controller making it rev to 9k along with decat and 4 inch backbox was way to loud. Handling was becoming very ropey that was around 2013 would of needed a complete suspension overhaul at that point don't no if that is a weak point on them along with rusty arches and crunchy gearbox!
havoc said:
Once fit the running costs of a DC2 are peanuts compared to ANY Porsche, and unlike an S1/S2 Elise it's not going to need regular fettling/fixing...
So you can't really compare a £6k 'teg needing £5k of work with a £14k Porsche needing ??? work, and needing 2-3x the annual running costs.
(Still tempted by a 996 though...)
They are pretty tough mechanically and can take some serious stick.
There isn’t too much that isn’t DIY-able. Even bushes can be done with replacement arms for those not able or willing to use a press. Fit & forget for 60k.
No it isn’t an Elise/Exige/Atom/Caterham etc etc- but with a fair comparison to other N/A FWD hot hatches/coupes of it’s time I can’t think of any that do so much so well as standard.
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