What car has the best ever build quality?
Discussion
Another vote for early Lexuses (Lexi?).
The LS was literally a revelation. The Japs took Mercedes to Mercedes and won. I've been in a 400K LS400 and other than the seats it was like a new car - silent, smooth, quick.
The original IS was another. Any car where the buying guides say 'Examples with over 250k miles can start to get a bit ratty' is clearly a pretty well put together motor! Especially at a time where the accountants were running German production lines.
That said, does 'well built' mean the whole car remains nice or that it does squillions of miles before it stops being able to move itself? If it's the latter, then it's probably something American. I'd imagine there are (or were) some crazy mileage Crown Vic taxis doing the rounds.
Looks like the official list is one of this lot (though I'm not sure they all count, especially that BMW): https://axleadvisor.com/highest-mileage-cars-ever/
The LS was literally a revelation. The Japs took Mercedes to Mercedes and won. I've been in a 400K LS400 and other than the seats it was like a new car - silent, smooth, quick.
The original IS was another. Any car where the buying guides say 'Examples with over 250k miles can start to get a bit ratty' is clearly a pretty well put together motor! Especially at a time where the accountants were running German production lines.
That said, does 'well built' mean the whole car remains nice or that it does squillions of miles before it stops being able to move itself? If it's the latter, then it's probably something American. I'd imagine there are (or were) some crazy mileage Crown Vic taxis doing the rounds.
Looks like the official list is one of this lot (though I'm not sure they all count, especially that BMW): https://axleadvisor.com/highest-mileage-cars-ever/
sixpistons said:
I don’t know why the e46 and e39 keep popping up. In terms of perceived quality they were good, but this blinds people to their flaws. I ran an e46 320d to 175k miles and it was a lovely car - quiet, good ride, nice handling, nice inside. However the rustproofing was crap for a supposedly premium car, it broke 3 sets of rear springs and 3 down pipe/cat assemblies and chewed through front suspension bushes at a ridiculous rate. I think the e90 was a better car, but not as good to drive.
I tend to agree about the E46. Some years ago I tried to find an 8-10 year old one. All had some form of rust and big folders of receipts for massive bills. This on a car with less than 100,000 miles. I honestly don't think they're any better put together than something like an Astra Mk4. People may snigger but there are loads of these old Astras knocking about. The newest is about 15 years old now, they're rarely rusty and they're all In the hands of people who basically use them as bargain basement low maintenance run arounds. Any car that is pampered and looked after will last, but its the ones that keep going without care that impress me the most.Anyway, my vote for best build ever, well, in recent times, is the Lexus LS400. Lexus went to massive lengths to built a better car than Merc, BMW etc and largely succeeded.
AB1canotbee said:
Harji said:
My current pre GM SAAB 900 turbo, these were designed by engineers.
My previously owned Subaru Legacy 2.5 (04 reg), I only owned it for a year, put 23k miles on it and the car felt new. Frameless doors, supper confy seats, the steering wheel was one of the best (I think it was a MOMO as standard) and of course that drive system, nothing rattled when I sold it on for 100K miles plus on the clock.
My current 2.7 diesel quattro A6 Avant, it's 12 years old, over 100k on it, I've put on 13k in less than a year and it feels like a new car, no wear in the interior, no squeaks from the suspension, nothing has broken.
"these were designed by engineers"....?! Unlike Mercedes VW Ford GM,Honda,etc etc etc etc I suppose.....still, you learn something new every day. [I am a retired automotive design engineer as it happens, so I would not know anything about this stuff.My previously owned Subaru Legacy 2.5 (04 reg), I only owned it for a year, put 23k miles on it and the car felt new. Frameless doors, supper confy seats, the steering wheel was one of the best (I think it was a MOMO as standard) and of course that drive system, nothing rattled when I sold it on for 100K miles plus on the clock.
My current 2.7 diesel quattro A6 Avant, it's 12 years old, over 100k on it, I've put on 13k in less than a year and it feels like a new car, no wear in the interior, no squeaks from the suspension, nothing has broken.
I have a similar brochure for my K reg
http://saabworld.org/saab-900-engineering-features...
kapiteinlangzaam said:
On a plus note, I have to say every Volvo ive ever had (MY2000-2010), being V70s, XC90s, and S60s have been generally extremely good.
The underside on every single one has been spotless, even after 200k miles. Exhausts always looked new, zero rust, very very good underseal from the factory.
Sorry Kapitein, but as much as I love your threads, the XC90 is utterly horrible, with more and more things failing on the car as it neared the end of our ownership. Granted, you did own a facelift (2007+) model which was more reliable, but the things that can go wrong on XC90's did go wrong, such as the 4WD system, the central electronics module (due to a sunroof leak from a desig flaw) and many electronics. Only good thing was the engine and gearbox, never had a day in the 4 years we owned it where the engine did not want to start. The underside on every single one has been spotless, even after 200k miles. Exhausts always looked new, zero rust, very very good underseal from the factory.
I am seconding the E39, everything from the doors to the engine was rock-solid. The only thing these cars had issues with was the water pump (stronger alternative) and the ABS module. That was about it.
My mother in law had a 325tds E39 and it cost her thousands to run , felt lovely quality but ate suspension components with alarming regularity.....possibly to do with refusal to admit the existence of the many speedbumps in her local area haha
My shout goes to the first Porsche Boxter.....had a lovely solid feel to everything and was way over engineered at its pricepoint
My shout goes to the first Porsche Boxter.....had a lovely solid feel to everything and was way over engineered at its pricepoint
It has to be the 100 Series Land Cruiser with a manual gearbox. Its indestructible. Ours is a 2001 that has 472,000 miles on it and it pulls a trailer with between 2-4 tonne on it at least three times a week (and it has pulled considerably more than that on many occassions). Its still on its original clutch, gearbox and the engine has perfect compression on every piston. It doesnt burn a drop of oil and it is so easy to work on. Loads of room around the engine bay. The fuel gauge doesnt work and the heater is giving some trouble but that is all that has happened in 18 years of being worked as hard as possible. Obviously it has never shown an electrical issue either. And somehow the velour seats are still in good condition, the foam has sagged but the fabric isnt even close to tearing. Incredible. The bolsters in most cars seem to be gone around 200,000 miles.
The only faults I can think of and these seem common are rusty front wings and the rear door also rusts. Still, ours is almost 18 years old and still on its original rear doors so its obviously not a major issue.
People talk about Mercedes and old Volvos and they are good machines. But none of them have ever received the abuse our land cruiser has.
The only faults I can think of and these seem common are rusty front wings and the rear door also rusts. Still, ours is almost 18 years old and still on its original rear doors so its obviously not a major issue.
People talk about Mercedes and old Volvos and they are good machines. But none of them have ever received the abuse our land cruiser has.
Edited by llcoolmac on Tuesday 13th November 17:43
llcoolmac said:
It has to be the 100 Series Land Cruiser with a manual gearbox. Its indestructible.
Seconded, and I have been in a few around the world. Once it was Land Rover, but the Rover became Cruiser many years back. Just like the Toyota pickup, which Top Gear proved was indestructible and was voted #1 by terrorists all over the world. But like everyone else it seems, the best car was the LS400, and all the abovefrom the same manufacturer. But judging on what I have seen in the USA, the Camry must run the Lexus a close second.Lester H said:
Lester H said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
p4cks said:
K11 Micra?
This, surely. The oldest ones are now 25 years old, the newest ones are 16 years old, and they are still a common sight on our roads. Literally thousands of them still running, with years of life left in them. And in 2002 when they were about to be superseded by the new model, they were on sale for £4995.Just staggering.
My dads 2008ish Honda Ridgeline just passed 100k, he has done nothing except service it. Still drives like new with no faults which is fairly impressive for a truck used for building work and towing trailers. Looks like s
t though with damage all over.
No squeaks/rattles which shocked me for it.
t though with damage all over. No squeaks/rattles which shocked me for it.
Roger Irrelevant said:
hp7 said:
ITP said:
LS400 or RX400h
ThisThinking about it a Toyota Century is probably even better, can't let the emperor of Japan be bothered by rattling trim!
I haven't had the time to read all through this so I'm most likely repeating someone else's opinion.
But
Volvo 240 in all it's (slightly) different forms. Physically and mechanically as near indestructible as you're likely to get.
Also, of course, ugly, slow for engine size and about as handy as a pig on rollerskates.
But, f###me they last well!
But
Volvo 240 in all it's (slightly) different forms. Physically and mechanically as near indestructible as you're likely to get.
Also, of course, ugly, slow for engine size and about as handy as a pig on rollerskates.
But, f###me they last well!
Probably the Mercedes 190e (W201) I had some years ago - although my BMW E91 is still going strong on 137K miles, and doesn't seem to be suffering from the crustiness that afflicted my E46. 
Lexus look promising, but the cam-belt change is a major expense especially when they get older - why didn't they just use a chain like BMW and MB?
Lexus look promising, but the cam-belt change is a major expense especially when they get older - why didn't they just use a chain like BMW and MB?
donkmeister said:
kapiteinlangzaam said:
On a plus note, I have to say every Volvo ive ever had (MY2000-2010), being V70s, XC90s, and S60s have been generally extremely good.
The underside on every single one has been spotless, even after 200k miles. Exhausts always looked new, zero rust, very very good underseal from the factory.
Gearbox and rear diff are the weak points in those cars unfortunately - those parts are not engineered by Volvo though!The underside on every single one has been spotless, even after 200k miles. Exhausts always looked new, zero rust, very very good underseal from the factory.
Always find people's perceptions funny. French cars are worse etc etc.
Could you argue that a typical Volvo owner from new regularly had hid Volvo serviced? Keeping it mint for longer?
I had an e39 and was set for it to be along term car
I spent a reasonable amount on the engine and suspension and it was lovely. Then about 1 month after doing that a dozy bint at work smashed into the back of and wrote it off. Not happy. My current S6 is newer, faster and has more toys, but I don't like it as much.
I spent a reasonable amount on the engine and suspension and it was lovely. Then about 1 month after doing that a dozy bint at work smashed into the back of and wrote it off. Not happy. My current S6 is newer, faster and has more toys, but I don't like it as much.
Mr Tidy said:
Probably the Mercedes 190e (W201) I had some years ago - although my BMW E91 is still going strong on 137K miles, and doesn't seem to be suffering from the crustiness that afflicted my E46.
Lexus look promising, but the cam-belt change is a major expense especially when they get older - why didn't they just use a chain like BMW and MB?
BMW are hardly a good example for this. They seem to fLexus look promising, but the cam-belt change is a major expense especially when they get older - why didn't they just use a chain like BMW and MB?
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