What car has the best ever build quality?

[Truckosaurus]

Indeed. As long as it is easily changeable (ie. not an engine out job) then regularly changing a belt is a better long term solution that.a chain that can stretch or break and is much harder to replace.

[Barchettaman]

Shiv_P said:

BMW are hardly a good example for this. They seem to fk up every 4 pot chain engine they make recently

The M47 diesel is ok (e46/early e90 models), its successor the N47 was the dodgy one.

Mine is on 235k, remapped and still running sweetly, uses no oil.

[anonymous-user]

flatso said:

What a great shot of one of the legends!

Makes me sad....also reminds me I bought too much gravel for the drive (heap to the right of the garage).

They were a lovely design.

I've still a set of BMW winter wheels/tyres in the forlorn hope I'll get another.....

[Fittster]

Car-Matt said:

My shout goes to the first Porsche Boxter.....had a lovely solid feel to everything and was way over engineered at its pricepoint

Don't these have a dodgy engine?

[Scootersp]

Mr Tidy said:

Probably the Mercedes 190e (W201) I had some years ago - although my BMW E91 is still going strong on 137K miles, and doesn't seem to be suffering from the crustiness that afflicted my E46.

Lexus look promising, but the cam-belt change is a major expense especially when they get older - why didn't they just use a chain like BMW and MB?

What lexus and toyota did before VVti and the clamp down on emissions was produce many non interference engines. So the cambelt expensive could be deferred with no catastrophic effects on the engine.

They also did this in the 2JZ straight six engines, again until the VVti models, and Carina e's etc. Saying that the VVti ones aren't particularly prone to failure but being non interference is a definite nice to have.

[Sa Calobra]

Fittster said:

Car-Matt said:

My shout goes to the first Porsche Boxter.....had a lovely solid feel to everything and was way over engineered at its pricepoint

Don't these have a dodgy engine?

Engine seal which meant engine out to change it

[bearman68]

mike9009 said:

I wish my mk1 MR2 and Eunos were well rust proofed with good steel!

But to be fair, an Mk1 MR2 is now approaching what 35 years old?

[bearman68]

Chestrockwell said:

I get your point but I think the thread is about the best built car and I still stand by the BMW E46 and E39. They’re complicated cars full of kit (at the time) and to this day, the 2 I owned and the 4 my brother owned are still rock solid and everything works. I’m not saying things stop working on Jap cars like Yaris’s and Corolla’s but they didn’t have much to start with, very simple cars.

Mmm, I agree they are not covered in leather, with electric boot lids and the like. But the engines are often complex little beasts, with VVTi and the like. Just think how many Vanos units give trouble compared to the Toyota VVT. and I think this is troublesome compared to the Honda unit. I think I read Honda have never had a VTech unit break down under warranty. Can you imagine the warranty department in Toyota, Honda etc, they must watch tumbleweed for a living. I had an E39 and it was a PITA to maintain nicely. I refer you to the famous 'Hedgehog' for example.

[anonymous-user]

bearman68 said:

Mmm, I agree they are not covered in leather, with electric boot lids and the like. But the engines are often complex little beasts, with VVTi and the like. Just think how many Vanos units give trouble compared to the Toyota VVT. and I think this is troublesome compared to the Honda unit. I think I read Honda have never had a VTech unit break down under warranty. Can you imagine the warranty department in Toyota, Honda etc, they must watch tumbleweed for a living. I had an E39 and it was a PITA to maintain nicely. I refer you to the famous 'Hedgehog' for example.

Mine had an issue with misfiring - needed all the valve lifters replacing. Parts were only c £20-30 each, minor issue of 4 valves per cylinder added up pretty quick...

[AW111]

bearman68 said:

mike9009 said:

I wish my mk1 MR2 and Eunos were well rust proofed with good steel!

But to be fair, an Mk1 MR2 is now approaching what 35 years old?

Mine's an early one, and only 32 years old.
I did have to get some rust repairs done a few years ago, but nothing major - one of the benefits of living in a dry country.

[RJG46]

mac96 said:

untakenname said:

Pre GM Saab.

Good call. We had a 99 followed by a 900 both from new (sadly not turbos); they might not have been the last word in performance but had a wonderful quality ambience.

Huh?

I love the 900 Turbo but I thought they were known to have fairly chocolate gearboxes and also used engines sourced from Triumph. Despite once being fairly popular when did you last see a 9000?

I won't pick a model but any Mercedes from the era before it all went tits up.

There's a reason there were still loads of W124s still in use as Taxis when I went to Lisbon a couple of years ago

[njw1]

wsurfa said:

I had an e39 and was set for it to be along term car



I spent a reasonable amount on the engine and suspension and it was lovely. Then about 1 month after doing that a dozy bint at work smashed into the back of and wrote it off. Not happy. My current S6 is newer, faster and has more toys, but I don't like it as much.

I like that. A lot.

[tomic]

Mk2 Golf GTI. These seem to be much less rusty than contemporary German cars, the 8v engines in particular are capable of huge mileages and I still see them around regularly.

According to Quentin Willson they get faster with age too.

https://youtu.be/7sxN5GV8ywY

I'd also say the 24v E34 BMWs were very high quality.

[Chestrockwell]

bearman68 said:

Chestrockwell said:

I get your point but I think the thread is about the best built car and I still stand by the BMW E46 and E39. They’re complicated cars full of kit (at the time) and to this day, the 2 I owned and the 4 my brother owned are still rock solid and everything works. I’m not saying things stop working on Jap cars like Yaris’s and Corolla’s but they didn’t have much to start with, very simple cars.

Mmm, I agree they are not covered in leather, with electric boot lids and the like. But the engines are often complex little beasts, with VVTi and the like. Just think how many Vanos units give trouble compared to the Toyota VVT. and I think this is troublesome compared to the Honda unit. I think I read Honda have never had a VTech unit break down under warranty. Can you imagine the warranty department in Toyota, Honda etc, they must watch tumbleweed for a living. I had an E39 and it was a PITA to maintain nicely. I refer you to the famous 'Hedgehog' for example.

My EP3 Civic Type R had 140k miles, 7 owners with part service history, I put 10 thousand hardcore miles on it in less than a year, I used to like letting it bounce on the limiter before changing gear, I really did abuse that car and not once, did it give me the slightest hint of trouble! The funnest car I have ever owned and as soon as I turn 25 at the end of the year, I will buy another and use it as a run around. Insurance now costs more than my 2015 4 series! 2 grand a year, ridiculous

[RJG46]

Chestrockwell said:

bearman68 said:

Chestrockwell said:

I get your point but I think the thread is about the best built car and I still stand by the BMW E46 and E39. They’re complicated cars full of kit (at the time) and to this day, the 2 I owned and the 4 my brother owned are still rock solid and everything works. I’m not saying things stop working on Jap cars like Yaris’s and Corolla’s but they didn’t have much to start with, very simple cars.

Mmm, I agree they are not covered in leather, with electric boot lids and the like. But the engines are often complex little beasts, with VVTi and the like. Just think how many Vanos units give trouble compared to the Toyota VVT. and I think this is troublesome compared to the Honda unit. I think I read Honda have never had a VTech unit break down under warranty. Can you imagine the warranty department in Toyota, Honda etc, they must watch tumbleweed for a living. I had an E39 and it was a PITA to maintain nicely. I refer you to the famous 'Hedgehog' for example.

My EP3 Civic Type R had 140k miles, 7 owners with part service history, I put 10 thousand hardcore miles on it in less than a year, I used to like letting it bounce on the limiter before changing gear, I really did abuse that car and not once, did it give me the slightest hint of trouble! The funnest car I have ever owned and as soon as I turn 25 at the end of the year, I will buy another and use it as a run around. Insurance now costs more than my 2015 4 series! 2 grand a year, ridiculous

Everything still works on my 28 year old, 185k mile Mercedes C124. One of the best specced W124s I've seen. These cars were from an era when BMW couldn't even do rust proofing well.

[ninjag]

mac96 said:

untakenname said:

Pre GM Saab.

Good call. We had a 99 followed by a 900 both from new (sadly not turbos); they might not have been the last word in performance but had a wonderful quality ambience.

My dad had an original 900 and loved it. Probably best built car I've come across relative to its day.

[fooby]

Lexus IS200. I owned one which cost £500 expecting a banger but was blown away. No squeaks or rattles and the controls felt better than most new cars. Everything worked too. Not a single niggle or sign of age inside. The fact that it had a 6 cylinder putting out 150bhp says a lot about how over engineered they were.

Older hondas are quite impressive too. Nothing mind blowing but they age very well and feel built to last. I have a 2003 Jazz right now and even as a cheap super mini it’s miles ahead of similar aged Nissans, Toyotas and VW’s I’ve owned.

Worst goes to the Peugeot 206. Just felt like it wasn’t built to last inside at all.

Edited by fooby on Saturday 17th November 12:15

Edited by fooby on Saturday 17th November 12:16

[RJG46]

ninjag said:

mac96 said:

untakenname said:

Pre GM Saab.

Good call. We had a 99 followed by a 900 both from new (sadly not turbos); they might not have been the last word in performance but had a wonderful quality ambience.

My dad had an original 900 and loved it. Probably best built car I've come across relative to its day.

But they weren't exactly cheap cars back. Even the non-turbo versions were E-Class Merc sort of money.

[njw1]

fooby said:

Worst goes to the Peugeot 206. Just felt like it wasn’t built to last inside at all.

I'll agree with that, my mother's got an '02 plate and it's horrendous, it's covered in dents and scratches, the interior is falling to bits, I haven't servciced it since I don't know when, the brakes are abysmal, it squeaks and rattles and is generally knackered, however, it just point blank refuses to die! It's even just passed another mot, admittedly the list of advisories was as long as my arm so it's probably it's last year on the road but the bloody thing passed!

[otolith]

njw1 said:

I'll agree with that, my mother's got an '02 plate and it's horrendous, it's covered in dents and scratches

They’re meant to look like that!