RE: BMW reveals 374hp M340i ahead of LA show

[epom]

Reading this one would wonder why BMW even bother ? Oh ya....

[Don Colione]

2 things…

Firstly, the times are a changin’ …. We are now in the year 2018. We need to realize that this is not the 90’s anymore; 0-60 times, as well as much else, has drastically changed in the auto industry.

A mid 4 sec 0-60 is very quick, and equivalent to the V8 M3, because that M3 was first produced over 10 years ago. Right now, even Camry’s, Kia Stinger Gt’s, etc… are all within the 4-5 second range.

For this class of car, having acceleration such as this is “keeping up with the times”…. And just about the only marketing they are using to ‘hype’ the car to enthusiasts. Sadly, there is little else for them to work with, overall.

Finally, for those who don’t just yet “get it”.

A MANUAL TRANSMISSION, means just that. It allows you to MANUALLY control the gearbox and power delivery of the engine, through the clutch.

That’s all.

It has nothing to do with power, weight, engine type, or whatever insecure cliché about "manhood" one can concoct.

If I want to shift from 1-6 / 6-1, or any other gear combo; I can do so instantly, without the need to “click” through any ‘unnecessary’ gears, which wastes time, and could be potentially dangerous in certain situations.

In any auto box, sequential or otherwise; the computer ultimately gets the last say in the gear change, which is a big no-no for a true driver. If the computer says you can’t change, you can’t change!

No thanks; if I can avoid it.

A manual brings to bear a greater responsibility on the driver, who must be able to control the vehicle in all conditions and situations; at all times...

Auto boxes are for those who are incapable of handling such a great responsibility, or those who would rather do without it; for whatever reason.

Some of us DRIVERS just want the option... Especially in "enthusiast" branded models/types of vehicle.

[Turbojuice]

Don, Manual mode with ZF boxes are true manual modes. They will not change gear until you squeeze a paddle. You get full control.

i just think the whole "why no manual option? what the hell have they done?" type thing is blown way out of proportion these days. I just can't comprehend why you'd want a manual in a big car like this new 3er. Its whole purpose is to be able to waft up and down motorways with ease whilst not being overly big and intimidating for when you get onto country roads. But horses for courses and all that.

And the whole "auto boxes are for people who can't drive" can do one as well.

And no I don't work for ZF, and i own a manual believe it or not.

Edited by Turbojuice on Tuesday 13th November 23:30

[Don Colione]

Turbojuice said:

Don, Manual mode with ZF boxes are true manual modes. They will not change gear until you squeeze a paddle. You get full control.

i just think the whole "why no manual option? what the hell have they done?" type thing is blown way out of proportion these days. I just can't comprehend why you'd want a manual in a big car like this new 3er. Its whole purpose is to be able to waft up and down motorways with ease whilst not being overly big and intimidating for when you get onto country roads. But horses for courses and all that.

And the whole "auto boxes are for people who can't drive" can do one as well.

And no I don't work for ZF, and i own a manual believe it or not.

Edited by Turbojuice on Tuesday 13th November 23:30

Full clutch control... When it is engaged, and disengaged (at all times) is one of the most important parts of full manual control of the transmission; and therefore full overall control of the vehicle's drivetrain and powertrain.

This is not permitted on any auto or sequential manual transmission. Also the ability to shift to any gear in the gate at. any. time.


Don't worry, I also "hate" traction control, esp, FWD, AWD, electronic throttles/steering, turbos, etc.

I need RWD to mitigate the throttle and rear end in the best way possible.

Electronics ruins or detracts from the true driving experience in many ways... I instantly deactivate all intervening systems as soon possible, as soon as I get into any car.

It is about full control, also about feel and instant reaction to my inputs; which I prize highly in my driving experience.

I fully understand, and agree; if everyone is not the same or doesn't understand.

[9k rpm]

Does anyone with an automatic with more than 6 ‘gears’ ever really use it in manual?

I had an 8 speed 335d and it was pointless due to close ratios (possibly too good in auto) my M4 although a DCT can only be really used in manual first 4 gears (out of 7) when pressing on. It’s into 3 figures in mph early in 4th.

I see the latest C63 is 9 ‘speed’ only but how many ratios can be enjoyably used in manual mode?

Even in my E92 M3 (DCT) you’d never really use anything above 4th in manual unless cruising. The last manual box I really enjoyed was in my S2000 and that was a long time ago......

[Mr Tidy]

Turbojuice said:

Don, Manual mode with ZF boxes are true manual modes. They will not change gear until you squeeze a paddle. You get full control.

i just think the whole "why no manual option? what the hell have they done?" type thing is blown way out of proportion these days. I just can't comprehend why you'd want a manual in a big car like this new 3er. Its whole purpose is to be able to waft up and down motorways with ease whilst not being overly big and intimidating for when you get onto country roads. But horses for courses and all that.

And the whole "auto boxes are for people who can't drive" can do one as well.

And no I don't work for ZF, and i own a manual believe it or not.

Edited by Turbojuice on Tuesday 13th November 23:30

But "manual mode" isn't manual at all is it? There is a pedal missing.

The new 3er may be designed to waft up and down motorways in diesel format, but I'd just hope for the option of more involvement in the current "halo" model.

That's probably why both my BMWs are over 10 years old - and both have an N/A straight 6 petrol engine and a proper manual gearbox with no need for "modes". They are manual, full-stop.

[Robert-nszl1]

Clivey said:

Turbo (no more NA straight sixes)

Christ, modern cars suck balls!

You say that like it's a bad thing.... ??

Edited by Robert-nszl1 on Wednesday 14th November 09:20

[RobM77]

Turbojuice said:

i just think the whole "why no manual option? what the hell have they done?" type thing is blown way out of proportion these days. I just can't comprehend why you'd want a manual in a big car like this new 3er. Its whole purpose is to be able to waft up and down motorways with ease whilst not being overly big and intimidating for when you get onto country roads. But horses for courses and all that.

If that were the purpose of a BMW 3 series, then you'd be right. I'd challenge that though. The 3 series has a broad remit, but I see myself as well within that: I need a four seater car, appreciate good FE/RWD handling, and despite doing 30k miles a year, rarely ever drive on motorways and only a quarter of my commute on a dual carriageway. I also virtually never drive in towns. I've driven a number of BMWs with automatic gearboxes (friends cars and courtesy cars), and I know I'd be miserable with an auto. I think it's important to have the choice of both types of gearbox in a car with such a broad appeal and broad customer base.

[Fastdruid]

RobM77 said:

I think it's important to have the choice of both types of gearbox in a car with such a broad appeal and broad customer base.

I can kind of understand it with some cars where there was/is no manual option for that model (regardless of engine) at all. The effort to put in a gear lever/lose the flappy paddles and find a place for a third pedal would cost a lot for something only about 5 people may buy...

But it's a 3 series. There are loads of versions with a manual box (although I believe no xDrive versions.)

Rumours are however the G80 M3 will have a manual option and have the option of RWD or xDrive (but not how that will work).

It is entirely possible the new M3 will will be either or, ie you can have a RWD manual or auto but only an auto xDrive. Or it may even be that RWD/AWD is selectable and and the gearbox is irrelevant.

[Peanus]

RobM77 said:

Turbojuice said:

i just think the whole "why no manual option? what the hell have they done?" type thing is blown way out of proportion these days. I just can't comprehend why you'd want a manual in a big car like this new 3er. Its whole purpose is to be able to waft up and down motorways with ease whilst not being overly big and intimidating for when you get onto country roads. But horses for courses and all that.

If that were the purpose of a BMW 3 series, then you'd be right. I'd challenge that though. The 3 series has a broad remit, but I see myself as well within that: I need a four seater car, appreciate good FE/RWD handling, and despite doing 30k miles a year, rarely ever drive on motorways and only a quarter of my commute on a dual carriageway. I also virtually never drive in towns. I've driven a number of BMWs with automatic gearboxes (friends cars and courtesy cars), and I know I'd be miserable with an auto. I think it's important to have the choice of both types of gearbox in a car with such a broad appeal and broad customer base.

They would have done stastistical and quantitative analyses on this though. The loss of business from people leaving the brand due to the dropping of the manual would likely be more than made up for by the savings made through several factors such as more bulk savings on the auto gearboxes, increases to MPG forecasted figures which lowers punitive taxation, etc. It’s a shame but it’s just the way it is.

[telecat]

Peanus said:

RobM77 said:

Turbojuice said:

i just think the whole "why no manual option? what the hell have they done?" type thing is blown way out of proportion these days. I just can't comprehend why you'd want a manual in a big car like this new 3er. Its whole purpose is to be able to waft up and down motorways with ease whilst not being overly big and intimidating for when you get onto country roads. But horses for courses and all that.

If that were the purpose of a BMW 3 series, then you'd be right. I'd challenge that though. The 3 series has a broad remit, but I see myself as well within that: I need a four seater car, appreciate good FE/RWD handling, and despite doing 30k miles a year, rarely ever drive on motorways and only a quarter of my commute on a dual carriageway. I also virtually never drive in towns. I've driven a number of BMWs with automatic gearboxes (friends cars and courtesy cars), and I know I'd be miserable with an auto. I think it's important to have the choice of both types of gearbox in a car with such a broad appeal and broad customer base.

They would have done stastistical and quantitative analyses on this though. The loss of business from people leaving the brand due to the dropping of the manual would likely be more than made up for by the savings made through several factors such as more bulk savings on the auto gearboxes, increases to MPG forecasted figures which lowers punitive taxation, etc. It’s a shame but it’s just the way it is.

The problem is that those people leaving due to loss of Manual are the "Influencers". They are the reason that BMW is the label it is. Without them they will have to hope that they can stand on their own and outlive their reputation or fall into the Generic vehicle trap that such as Vauxhall and Ford found themselves in. I did see several manual 340i saloons from the current range for sale Up to the middle of last year. It was an itch you could scratch. I will be sticking with my Manual M240i which has a great box as far as I can see and feel and I will be able to approach roundabouts in confidence that the box and clutch do what I want them to do when I get there.

[nottyash]

Once again they have built an incredible car and made it look amazingly dull

[Gooly]

Pointless. Bet the engine sounds will be synthesised through the speakers too... may as well just get a 320d, 90% of the time it'll be the exact same car and despite having 380BHP I can't imagine it's all that exciting when you do put your foot down for the 2-3 seconds you can actually use it for. At least the C43 and S4 are good looking... What is the point BMW if not a poised, smart looking, RWD with a nice legible interior? The 8 series being an absolute heap as well doesn't inspire confidence either. How do Merc get it so right these days and BMW don't?

[stuart-b]

Yet another high powered, but boring to listen to, AWD which you can't tinker with. X-drive is a tuners nightmare, so much so that a tuning software house have just released x-drive delete for the platform. You might think that's counter-intuitive, but why do you buy a fast 3 series for AWD? I can understand the requirement for an AWD barge in certain parts of the world, but this is becoming the defacto standard. So much power that RWD isn't enough - but do you need that much power? There are plenty of alternatives from many other manufacturers, Volvo, Audi, VAG, etc etc.

The 3 series was always, for the last 30+ years, about being the driving lover's practical car. Now every car in the BMW range is the same, except the body panels. From the Z4 to the 8 series - same engines and interiors, same drive chain - boring.

I bet it also stimulates your senses by playing fake engine noise through the speakers.

Very unexcited by this - and I've owned BMWs for years.

[anonymous-user]

I remember in 1995 when 390bhp in an XKR was ridiculous. That 340i will be a great car, even if it is absolutely hideous.

[Limpet]

TwinExit said:

No one buys a BMW new, they are all trapped in 2-3 year payment plans and must renew to the latest/bigger model (no matter how fugly and boring on paper they appear to be) to minimise the effect of depreciation on the buyer.

Perpetual car prison.

On what planet is that then, as it's not this one?

You hand the car back and walk away from a lease at the end, having met the payment terms that were agreed up front, at the start of the plan.

You can hand the car back and walk away from a PCP at the end, having met the payment terms that were agreed up front, at the start of the plan.

If the amount of money paid under the agreement hasn't covered the depreciation, that's the finance company's problem, not the buyer's. As long as all payments have been made, and the car is returned in acceptable condition according the BVRLA guidelines, the buyer has no further obligation from that point forward, and they can do what they like. The term 'prison' is absolute nonsense.

Of course, the dealers will do their best to get you into a new agreement and a shiny new car, and many take this option, but that is exactly what it is, an option. There is no obligation whatsoever on the part of the buyer to do so.

[nickfrog]

Kenny Powers said:

It’s not Pistonheads, it’s people in general. Being morose actually makes people happy now. Wallowing in misery and negativity. Most people who hate it probably don’t even hate it. They’re just part of the hive mind of hate and this will be just another excuse to have their voice heard

True, absolute/binary comments that boils down to "Everything is st apart from what I like and people buying this stuff don't get it like I do" are amusing as not based on reality but a deep confusion between personal preference and facts. And it invariably ignores the obvious fact that people can own several cars at the same time for different needs.

[Fastdruid]

Peanus said:

RobM77 said:

Turbojuice said:

i just think the whole "why no manual option? what the hell have they done?" type thing is blown way out of proportion these days. I just can't comprehend why you'd want a manual in a big car like this new 3er. Its whole purpose is to be able to waft up and down motorways with ease whilst not being overly big and intimidating for when you get onto country roads. But horses for courses and all that.

If that were the purpose of a BMW 3 series, then you'd be right. I'd challenge that though. The 3 series has a broad remit, but I see myself as well within that: I need a four seater car, appreciate good FE/RWD handling, and despite doing 30k miles a year, rarely ever drive on motorways and only a quarter of my commute on a dual carriageway. I also virtually never drive in towns. I've driven a number of BMWs with automatic gearboxes (friends cars and courtesy cars), and I know I'd be miserable with an auto. I think it's important to have the choice of both types of gearbox in a car with such a broad appeal and broad customer base.

They would have done stastistical and quantitative analyses on this though. The loss of business from people leaving the brand due to the dropping of the manual would likely be more than made up for by the savings made through several factors such as more bulk savings on the auto gearboxes, increases to MPG forecasted figures which lowers punitive taxation, etc. It’s a shame but it’s just the way it is.

It is....but every company needs a USP. Arguably if you remove the "good to drive" from BMW then what distinguishes them from other companies?

That way lies a homogeneous set of cars with nothing more than the badge and dash layout to distinguish them.

At the moment if looking for a new car I would buy a BMW over a Audi or Mercedes for example because of how they drive. In the same way at the lower end of the market I would go for a Ford over a Vauxhall. Again due to how they drive.

If all are just comfortable cruisers with auto-gearboxes and nothing more than a turbo charged 2T (or even if a nicer engine if everything that makes it so is engineered out) then there is nothing to attract me and it's purely going to be on the best deal.

[Ares]

theplayingmantis said:

Ares said:

theplayingmantis said:

Greg the Fish said:

To make it look like teeth so the inferior people will move their in vastly inferior vehicles will move out of the way for fear of being eaten by someone FAR more successful.

But not successful enough to get an M3...

Don’t get the point of this. If you want power you can’t use in the road go whole hog and get M3 and track it, otherwise this just smacks of cant afford the monthlies for an M3,rightly or wrongly.

What's hard to understand? So if you can't afford £70k for an M3 you should just drive a 200bhp diesel?

And if you can't use 374bhp, perhaps it's time to hand your licence in.

oh st maybe thats why i crashed my quad! couldn't handle the power! anyway, i maintain you cant use the full beans on the road the majority of time, legally, as you will know from your quad. Its still nice to have, even more so the unicorn factor.

Your not going to track a repmobile, you might as well finance a quad for a probably only small amount more pm than you would on this and get a infinitely superior car, if not the badge cachet.

Again see no point to this.

But then i'm not going to get in an argument with you over it as i know i wont win and don't have the time as my commutes not that long.

It's not about winning....but shouting about "Don’t get the point of this. If you want power you can’t use in the road , it suggests you think that 370bhp is too much for the road? If you think that, stick to low powered cars.

[Ares]

Honeywell said:

So basically the NON M3 version of the 3 series is now a Lotus Carlton with 4wd and an 8spd box?

A car which in 1990 cost £48,000 which in today’s terms adjusted for inflation is £104,000.


Progress indeed. It shows how insane the power wars in cars have become. Bet it’s not as much actual fun as my tuned GT86 though.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/in...

But it's stilled deemed and pointless and too expensive on PH