RE: BMW reveals 374hp M340i ahead of LA show
Discussion
Gooly said:
Kenny Powers said:
380hp, very fast and very well appointed 4-door saloon designed to perform the daily grind with comfort and pace is “pointless”
How much pace on the road is it really going to add over a lower spec model? Does 380BHP actually get you places faster in the UK? Do you really think you're going to extract the extra performance in a tangible way on the road other than a little blat down an empty DC every now and then? I'm not a luddite against speeding, its more just that in my experience even if you're ragging the balls off a 3-series you're going to get there at the same time whether you're in a 320d or a 330i. So if the aim isn't to get there quicker, then it should be to have more fun... but then whats fun about a big, heavy, 4wd automatic saloon with an obscenely powerful lump up front? I'd rather a 140i...And perhaps more importantly, why a 340i over a C43 or an S4? Both of which are, in my opinion at least, better looking and just seem that little bit more "special"...
Edited by Gooly on Wednesday 14th November 14:51
its smoother, sounds nice and can trouble a not that much older supercar.
Some people want and can afford a fairly compact, fast, sure footed saloon with an auto gearbox.
Now a 320D is a damn good car, despite the PH rhetoric, it does most things very well and is plenty fast enough for any situation, but given a choice, would anyone go for the four cyl diesel with half the power of the 340 and the "distinctive" soundtrack.
4wd makes total sense, I am enjoying mine when its greasy, similar powered one series (M135i with a tuning box) but it is very much traction limited in this weather, very easy to light the little yellow bulb on the dash, or alternatively give yourself many opportunities for opposite lock, a crash or skiddy pants if you turn the clever hedge prevention electronics off depending on skill level. Not everyone wants that so 4wd makes sense.
Gooly said:
Kenny Powers said:
380hp, very fast and very well appointed 4-door saloon designed to perform the daily grind with comfort and pace is “pointless”
How much pace on the road is it really going to add over a lower spec model? Does 380BHP actually get you places faster in the UK? Do you really think you're going to extract the extra performance in a tangible way on the road other than a little blat down an empty DC every now and then? I'm not a luddite against speeding, its more just that in my experience even if you're ragging the balls off a 3-series you're going to get there at the same time whether you're in a 320d or a 330i. So if the aim isn't to get there quicker, then it should be to have more fun... but then whats fun about a big, heavy, 4wd automatic saloon with an obscenely powerful lump up front? I'd rather a 140i...And perhaps more importantly, why a 340i over a C43 or an S4? Both of which are, in my opinion at least, better looking and just seem that little bit more "special"...
Edited by Gooly on Wednesday 14th November 14:51
Kenny Powers said:
Gooly said:
Kenny Powers said:
380hp, very fast and very well appointed 4-door saloon designed to perform the daily grind with comfort and pace is “pointless”
How much pace on the road is it really going to add over a lower spec model? Does 380BHP actually get you places faster in the UK? Do you really think you're going to extract the extra performance in a tangible way on the road other than a little blat down an empty DC every now and then? I'm not a luddite against speeding, its more just that in my experience even if you're ragging the balls off a 3-series you're going to get there at the same time whether you're in a 320d or a 330i. So if the aim isn't to get there quicker, then it should be to have more fun... but then whats fun about a big, heavy, 4wd automatic saloon with an obscenely powerful lump up front? I'd rather a 140i...And perhaps more importantly, why a 340i over a C43 or an S4? Both of which are, in my opinion at least, better looking and just seem that little bit more "special"...
Edited by Gooly on Wednesday 14th November 14:51
Must admit I am in the camp of those wondering why anyone would buy this instead of a full fat M3/M4.
..The old 335i I saw the point of, because it was a plain looking saloon/coupe so one for those who wanted a discreet express with a lovely straight six power plant. An M badged variant however, nah, I would have to stretch to the proper M.
greenarrow said:
Must admit I am in the camp of those wondering why anyone would buy this instead of a full fat M3/M4.
..The old 335i I saw the point of, because it was a plain looking saloon/coupe so one for those who wanted a discreet express with a lovely straight six power plant. An M badged variant however, nah, I would have to stretch to the proper M.
Because probably they can’t find £20-30k down the back of the sofa?..The old 335i I saw the point of, because it was a plain looking saloon/coupe so one for those who wanted a discreet express with a lovely straight six power plant. An M badged variant however, nah, I would have to stretch to the proper M.
theplayingmantis said:
Someones at lunch/just come out of a meeting
everything's about winning, this is PH remember, the most pointless argumentative forum Ive ever made the mistake of joining!
i knew i shouldn't have looked back here!...i do think 370bhp is a bit pointless given its not enough to bother tracking...and imo most of the time you wont be able to use it all on the road. Yes the few times you can its fun. Are you saying you use the Quads 500 on the road? i dont, well not often, but its still nice to have and it gives me the option of tracking it if i want. But i feel the same to this beemer as i do regards audi s models and merc equiv (although im sure all are fine cars), i see no point to them, to me they are a purgatory, middle ground between the boggo spec and the nice versions, screaming i'm too good for the boggo but cant actually get into a proper nice model, but then i think weirdly so am probably in a minority of 1 on this thinking).
i think AR with the Veloce have got it right a useable amount of power at a fair price in a nice package, contrary to loads who think there should be a middle ground between it and the Quad. But then to my weird thinking if i didn't/couldn't get an m3 i wouldn't want a warm one instead... i'd just get a 320...(i appreciate the irony here given i have a 330 too...but i didn't buy it!) anyway im getting incoherent in rambling so will go back to lurking...
A car doesn't need to be tracked to be relevant though? And yes, I use all 500bhp, maybe not every journey, but pretty much every day. everything's about winning, this is PH remember, the most pointless argumentative forum Ive ever made the mistake of joining!
i knew i shouldn't have looked back here!...i do think 370bhp is a bit pointless given its not enough to bother tracking...and imo most of the time you wont be able to use it all on the road. Yes the few times you can its fun. Are you saying you use the Quads 500 on the road? i dont, well not often, but its still nice to have and it gives me the option of tracking it if i want. But i feel the same to this beemer as i do regards audi s models and merc equiv (although im sure all are fine cars), i see no point to them, to me they are a purgatory, middle ground between the boggo spec and the nice versions, screaming i'm too good for the boggo but cant actually get into a proper nice model, but then i think weirdly so am probably in a minority of 1 on this thinking).
i think AR with the Veloce have got it right a useable amount of power at a fair price in a nice package, contrary to loads who think there should be a middle ground between it and the Quad. But then to my weird thinking if i didn't/couldn't get an m3 i wouldn't want a warm one instead... i'd just get a 320...(i appreciate the irony here given i have a 330 too...but i didn't buy it!) anyway im getting incoherent in rambling so will go back to lurking...
I had a Veloce as a courtesy car when mine was in for a service last week. It's a great car, handles like a mid-range saloon really shouldn't, but I missed there QV's grunt. I've never thought the QV had too much power.
Limpet said:
Gooly said:
What's the point of 380bhp in a road car if you have not a semblance of engagement?
Quite, but as nobody outside of BMWs development team has driven it yet, how do you know?Edited by Gooly on Wednesday 14th November 13:38
Gooly said:
Limpet said:
Quite, but as nobody outside of BMWs development team has driven it yet, how do you know?
Sure, but do you really think it'll be more engaging than the outgoing model? Just by looking at it on paper and given the fact that newer models tend to be even more refined. I just don't see what purpose the new 340i can really serve, and Mercedes and Audi seem to both have rivals that at least seem a little more resolved in their identity. Edited by Gooly on Wednesday 14th November 14:46
Gooly said:
Kenny Powers said:
380hp, very fast and very well appointed 4-door saloon designed to perform the daily grind with comfort and pace is “pointless”
How much pace on the road is it really going to add over a lower spec model? Does 380BHP actually get you places faster in the UK? Do you really think you're going to extract the extra performance in a tangible way on the road other than a little blat down an empty DC every now and then? I'm not a luddite against speeding, its more just that in my experience even if you're ragging the balls off a 3-series you're going to get there at the same time whether you're in a 320d or a 330i. So if the aim isn't to get there quicker, then it should be to have more fun... but then whats fun about a big, heavy, 4wd automatic saloon with an obscenely powerful lump up front? I'd rather a 140i...And perhaps more importantly, why a 340i over a C43 or an S4? Both of which are, in my opinion at least, better looking and just seem that little bit more "special"...
Edited by Gooly on Wednesday 14th November 14:51
RobM77 said:
I guess it's a matter of taste, and thankfully one thing BMW do, unlike other manufacturers, is appeal to a broad base of customers.
From experience of the whole BMW range I'd be happier in a 1300kg lower powered model on 16s than a 1600kg beast with 19" wheels and an automatic gearbox and xDrive. The latter is my idea of barge, irrespective of the power output. The context of that is that I regularly drive a car that's much faster than either of them, so the relative difference between a 320 and a 340 isn't really significant for me, but the difference between a 1300kg car and a 1600kg car certainly is and always will be, equally the difference in grip and feel between 205 16s and 255 19s matters to me, or the interaction of a manual box compared with the big heavy auto box that does it all for you. Equally, someone else with different priorities may prefer the 340 to the 320. The key is that unlike most other marques, BMW give us the choice by offering both ends of the range with M Sport suspension, so we can add good handling to a lightweight feelsome car and we don't have to ofsett it with the heaviest drivetrain choice. What I would like to see is that extended to manual gearboxes and rear wheel drive, which is my only comment on this new car.
Problem is, you and the three other people that want that solution and actually buy new cars, are outnumbered by 1000s by the people that buy the cars!From experience of the whole BMW range I'd be happier in a 1300kg lower powered model on 16s than a 1600kg beast with 19" wheels and an automatic gearbox and xDrive. The latter is my idea of barge, irrespective of the power output. The context of that is that I regularly drive a car that's much faster than either of them, so the relative difference between a 320 and a 340 isn't really significant for me, but the difference between a 1300kg car and a 1600kg car certainly is and always will be, equally the difference in grip and feel between 205 16s and 255 19s matters to me, or the interaction of a manual box compared with the big heavy auto box that does it all for you. Equally, someone else with different priorities may prefer the 340 to the 320. The key is that unlike most other marques, BMW give us the choice by offering both ends of the range with M Sport suspension, so we can add good handling to a lightweight feelsome car and we don't have to ofsett it with the heaviest drivetrain choice. What I would like to see is that extended to manual gearboxes and rear wheel drive, which is my only comment on this new car.
Ares said:
RobM77 said:
I guess it's a matter of taste, and thankfully one thing BMW do, unlike other manufacturers, is appeal to a broad base of customers.
From experience of the whole BMW range I'd be happier in a 1300kg lower powered model on 16s than a 1600kg beast with 19" wheels and an automatic gearbox and xDrive. The latter is my idea of barge, irrespective of the power output. The context of that is that I regularly drive a car that's much faster than either of them, so the relative difference between a 320 and a 340 isn't really significant for me, but the difference between a 1300kg car and a 1600kg car certainly is and always will be, equally the difference in grip and feel between 205 16s and 255 19s matters to me, or the interaction of a manual box compared with the big heavy auto box that does it all for you. Equally, someone else with different priorities may prefer the 340 to the 320. The key is that unlike most other marques, BMW give us the choice by offering both ends of the range with M Sport suspension, so we can add good handling to a lightweight feelsome car and we don't have to ofsett it with the heaviest drivetrain choice. What I would like to see is that extended to manual gearboxes and rear wheel drive, which is my only comment on this new car.
Problem is, you and the three other people that want that solution and actually buy new cars, are outnumbered by 1000s by the people that buy the cars!From experience of the whole BMW range I'd be happier in a 1300kg lower powered model on 16s than a 1600kg beast with 19" wheels and an automatic gearbox and xDrive. The latter is my idea of barge, irrespective of the power output. The context of that is that I regularly drive a car that's much faster than either of them, so the relative difference between a 320 and a 340 isn't really significant for me, but the difference between a 1300kg car and a 1600kg car certainly is and always will be, equally the difference in grip and feel between 205 16s and 255 19s matters to me, or the interaction of a manual box compared with the big heavy auto box that does it all for you. Equally, someone else with different priorities may prefer the 340 to the 320. The key is that unlike most other marques, BMW give us the choice by offering both ends of the range with M Sport suspension, so we can add good handling to a lightweight feelsome car and we don't have to ofsett it with the heaviest drivetrain choice. What I would like to see is that extended to manual gearboxes and rear wheel drive, which is my only comment on this new car.
Ares said:
Problem is, you and the three other people that want that solution and actually buy new cars, are outnumbered by 1000s by the people that buy the cars!
Once again Ares, people don't simply 'buy new cars' anymore, they obtain access to new vehicles using the most affordable method of payment (which is currently PCP) to mitigate the costs of owning a new car.1000's of people just want a car that does the job with the re-assurance that it is new, under warranty and minimal exposure to outgoings. They certainty do not want to expend any time or their money on stuff that car enthusiasts would normally prioritise.
Which brings up the question on why do you spend your time on a car enthusiasts forum when your answer to everything is sales volume and demographic profiling?
Ares said:
Problem is, you and the three other people that want that solution and actually buy new cars, are outnumbered by 1000s by the people that buy the cars!
Like I said, I'm sure BMW have done their research and are giving the market what they want and I'm sure it'll be a very competent car. They barely sold any manual 340is compared to autos from the last gen and the x-drive auto 335d sold well - this was always going to be a natural progression. I guess I just find it hard to see any of what I perceive to be BMW's identity / design ethos in this new one, and I don't see what it has over the C43 which IMO is a better looking car and just somehow has a little more kudos about it. I'm sure the new car drives great - I just struggle to see where it fits in. And I guess beyond anything, BMW were the last manufacture to be building a car that fitted the bill for what I liked - traditional layout, RWD, inline 6 saloon with a nice understated interior. I'm not going to pretend thats what the market wants, but thats always how I separated BMW from the rivals and in my mind I'm not really sure what it does best now. As long as they continue making a manual, RWD I6 car somewhere I'll be happy. Just looks to me that the 3series is getting closer and closer to occupying the space of what was the 5 series.
Kenny Powers said:
I “really think” I’ll buy what I choose. You are free to do the same, but you’re most certainly not free to arbitrate anyone else’s choices
Wasn't intending to imply otherwise! Each to their own etc etc. Just hope BMW continue to make stuff like the 140i as well!Edited by Gooly on Wednesday 14th November 18:03
Jim the Sunderer said:
You'd think after putting 50 man hours in with Photoshop they could make it look good.
Fabulous performance figures though.
Agree. Dynamically it looks to be superb. The design is mundane in the extreme however. BMW are losing their grip in terms of design I’m afraid. Fabulous performance figures though.
Edited by Escort3500 on Wednesday 14th November 18:42
TwinExit said:
Ares said:
Problem is, you and the three other people that want that solution and actually buy new cars, are outnumbered by 1000s by the people that buy the cars!
Once again Ares, people don't simply 'buy new cars' anymore, they obtain access to new vehicles using the most affordable method of payment (which is currently PCP) to mitigate the costs of owning a new car.1000's of people just want a car that does the job with the re-assurance that it is new, under warranty and minimal exposure to outgoings. They certainty do not want to expend any time or their money on stuff that car enthusiasts would normally prioritise.
Which brings up the question on why do you spend your time on a car enthusiasts forum when your answer to everything is sales volume and demographic profiling?
When it comes to a new car launch, for the manufacturer, sales ARE everything.
Why do so many people on a car enthusiast forum immediately whinge about a 370bhp normal 3-series based on photographs and nothing else?
Gooly said:
Just looks to me that the 3series is getting closer and closer to occupying the space of what was the 5 series.
They'll probably make a 1 series saloon and 2 series gran coupe 4 door thing as well in the next couple of years which will be the same size as the older 3 series.Every single niche has to be filled by ze germans.
Ares said:
Why do so many people on a car enthusiast forum immediately whinge about a 370bhp normal 3-series based on photographs and nothing else?
It seems to be when any new car is revealed, the majority of PH attempt to rip it to shreds for all manor of reasons. Some in the 8 series one were ranting about how it was the ugliest car they've seen... talk about exaggeration. In fact I think it was yourself who highlighted all of those comments.This one in particular though confuses me to no end. I understand people again not agreeing with the looks of it (i don't like how it looks either), but the rest of it on paper is superb. The old 340i was truly a swiss army knife of a car. A +300bhp practical as you like car with a characterful engine which can return over 40mpg on the mway. This one looks to improve on that, so what's not to like?
And don't get me started on the "what a pointless car" comments
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