RE: Going going Ghosn

[PZR]

nickfrog said:

Can we have a link to the data please?

I can't give you a link at this point because I can't find any primary source data which would prove anything one way or the other. I didn't see Ghosn give any figures in his Power Point presentation either.

Only numbers I've found so far after a look around relate to 2016, and cite a total of 15,276 crimes in Japan as having been committed by non-Japanese. However, the number of non-Japanese actually convicted in 2016 was 3,509 and only 744 of these received custodial sentences, the balance receiving suspended sentences.

In April 2019 the Ministry of Justice in Japan http://www.moj.go.jp/ said that there were roughly 1,600 'foreign'/Non-Japanese inmates in Japanese jails. With Japan's population currently sitting at something over 126 million - including non-Japanese residents - I'd say that seems like a surprisingly low figure.

[PZR]

Burwood said:

It’s 99.9 for foreigners and that’s because 1 in 1000 die whilst in custody but before trial.

Careful, somebody might ask you for a link to data.

[Burwood]

PZR said:

Burwood said:

It’s 99.9 for foreigners and that’s because 1 in 1000 die whilst in custody but before trial.

Careful, somebody might ask you for a link to data.

The difference is your comment is made up bullst

[PZR]

Burwood said:

PZR said:

Burwood said:

It’s 99.9 for foreigners and that’s because 1 in 1000 die whilst in custody but before trial.

Careful, somebody might ask you for a link to data.

The difference is your comment is made up bullst

You seem to be confusing Japan with North Korea.

[nickfrog]

PZR said:

Careful, somebody might ask you for a link to data.

Someone suggested you had an axe to grind earlier.
I wasn't sure but now I am so will discount any of your pre conceived opinions and lack of understanding for due process and separation of powers.

Bullst does describe it quite well.

[PZR]

Burwood said:

Rubbish. It’s a fact the Judiciary kowtow to prosecutors out of fear. Foreigners are lower class citizens. He wasn’t going to be acquitted. I’ve worked for Japanese organisations. They are pretty out there. And they are the most racist race on the planet.

I see.

[PZR]

nickfrog said:

PZR said:

Careful, somebody might ask you for a link to data.

Someone suggested you had an axe to grind earlier.
I wasn't sure but now I am so will discount any of your pre conceived opinions and lack of understanding for due process and separation of powers.

Bullst does describe it quite well.

How many wrongfully-convicted non-Japanese are currently in Japanese jails? I accept - of course - that there may be some, but I don't see or hear about an epidemic. People seem to be believing that the 99.x% at-trial conviction rate indicates some sort of police state, but there's plenty of community policing (almost to a Dixon of Dock Green clip around the ear'ole level) where offenders are simply cautioned.

An axe to grind? I don't personally like Ghosn, as I think I've made clear. I see that as a starting position, not any kind of vendetta. Perhaps I'm in the minority, as I see plenty of people are apparently ready to treat him as some kind of heroic figure, and "The Japs" (all of them...) as the bad guys.

I have more than 30 years personal experience of Japan - including several years living and working there - so I think I have a pretty good idea of what goes on in Japanese society. I'm not naive about it. I'm not an arriviste 'J-fan' (as I heard somebody call themselves recently) and there's plenty about Japanese society I don't like, but I could say the same about the UK. Am I, therefore, biased?

Thanks for the "bullst" comment. Noted.

[Burwood]

PZR said:

nickfrog said:

PZR said:

Careful, somebody might ask you for a link to data.

Someone suggested you had an axe to grind earlier.
I wasn't sure but now I am so will discount any of your pre conceived opinions and lack of understanding for due process and separation of powers.

Bullst does describe it quite well.

How many wrongfully-convicted non-Japanese are currently in Japanese jails? I accept - of course - that there may be some, but I don't see or hear about an epidemic. People seem to be believing that the 99.x% at-trial conviction rate indicates some sort of police state, but there's plenty of community policing (almost to a Dixon of Dock Green clip around the ear'ole level) where offenders are simply cautioned.

An axe to grind? I don't personally like Ghosn, as I think I've made clear. I see that as a starting position, not any kind of vendetta. Perhaps I'm in the minority, as I see plenty of people are apparently ready to treat him as some kind of heroic figure, and "The Japs" (all of them...) as the bad guys.

I have more than 30 years personal experience of Japan - including several years living and working there - so I think I have a pretty good idea of what goes on in Japanese society. I'm not naive about it. I'm not an arriviste 'J-fan' (as I heard somebody call themselves recently) and there's plenty about Japanese society I don't like, but I could say the same about the UK. Am I, therefore, biased?

Thanks for the "bullst" comment. Noted.

I’ve had years of experience working for a large Japanese Corporate, in London. The Japanese tolerate foreigners. Decisions are made to placate superiors, devoid of any moral compass. We had senior management from Japan that didn’t know their ass from their elbow and didn’t actually do anything other than ‘report’ back to Tokyo. Their communications to ‘us’ (all westerners) were written in Japanese. We had translators. Very efficient. Worse place I’ve ever worked.

[YankeePorker]

We shall see if we ever get the truth on this story, with 2 PR machines trying to muddy the waters.

I thought that it was corporate geo-politics, with Nissan wanting freedom from Renault before the tie up with Mitsubishi. Initially, after the Renault buy up of Nissan stock, Renault supported Nissan. It wasn’t long before Nissan’s results were such that they were supporting Renault, hence a desire to break out of the corporate tie up. This looked to me like a huge, state sanctioned, theatrical way to discredit the Renault link.

However, discussing this with French friends in the car industry, they all seemed to think that he had taken the piss with company money to buy properties abroad and that it was a fair cop. Equally they are now delighting in his escape, seeing it as a French triumph.

Irrespective of whether Ghosn was likely to receive any form of justice in Japan, do you think that he really is guilty of robbing the corporate coffers for his own benefit?

[Venturist]

Personally I reckon he’s done a FEW naughty things, but the driver was that management wanted rid and spied here an opportunity to do so by wholeheartedly throwing him under the bus.
This doesn’t make him innocent, but in my eyes the outright betrayal - by people he’s helped - is the grater of two weevils. This doesn’t make it true...

I also like the idea that the whole thing was a combined op by Nissan/Renault/Japan and possibly even Ghosn to use him as a fall guy, and enable them all to part ways with some mucky PR for a while but with individual honours held high. I’m looking forward to the movie version

[bimbeano]

"and the hot water in which he has found himself in Lebanon over a 2008 trip to Israel "

Yeah, as a Lebanese citizen you can't go to Israel without risking jail-time .... because Israel is such a bad (only democracy in the Middle-East) country filled with crooks .... laughable .... .