RE: Mercedes CL (C125): PH Used Buying Guide
Discussion
js68 said:
cb1965 said:
As a contrast to that I owned a FMBSH 2004 55K with 70K on it for 9 months. It ran well for a month and then started suffering issues - in the remaining 8 months I had it I spent £7K on a new torque converter, coolant pump, condenser, alternator, door switches and wiring, boot opener, corrosion prevention, undertrays, engine mounts, gearbox mount, crankshaft pulley, IC pump and so on. Yes it's a £100K car and therefore at 70K miles with full MB SH it shouldn't need half of that. The interior is flimsy and frankly the car is just not worth the potential hassle. Shame as I had always liked them looks wise. My Jag X350 XJ8 was a much much better car!
Slightly off topic but I had the same 10 years ago with a one owner 1999 840Ci with FSH and 90K from the same supplying BMW garage. First year saw radiator, aux radiator, both rear shocks, front discs and pads, front tyres, boot re-wire, both batteries replaced and to add insult to injury the back arches started rusting, which to avoid was the primary reason I'd chosen it over a Maserati 3200GT....and not only that but it had replaced a truly wonderful mint 928S which had never given me a whiff of bother in 5 years which was hawked on ebay for 2.2K...cb1965 said:
js68 said:
cb1965 said:
As a contrast to that I owned a FMBSH 2004 55K with 70K on it for 9 months. It ran well for a month and then started suffering issues - in the remaining 8 months I had it I spent £7K on a new torque converter, coolant pump, condenser, alternator, door switches and wiring, boot opener, corrosion prevention, undertrays, engine mounts, gearbox mount, crankshaft pulley, IC pump and so on. Yes it's a £100K car and therefore at 70K miles with full MB SH it shouldn't need half of that. The interior is flimsy and frankly the car is just not worth the potential hassle. Shame as I had always liked them looks wise. My Jag X350 XJ8 was a much much better car!
Slightly off topic but I had the same 10 years ago with a one owner 1999 840Ci with FSH and 90K from the same supplying BMW garage. First year saw radiator, aux radiator, both rear shocks, front discs and pads, front tyres, boot re-wire, both batteries replaced and to add insult to injury the back arches started rusting, which to avoid was the primary reason I'd chosen it over a Maserati 3200GT....and not only that but it had replaced a truly wonderful mint 928S which had never given me a whiff of bother in 5 years which was hawked on ebay for 2.2K...
) but hey...in the whole scheme of things I just view it as the cost to play the game.To add though, I thought the build and durability of material in my two MBs was a lot higher than in my M6, for instance. I fully appreciate that the SL and CL are generally seen as in the next bracket up to the E63/4, but I really feel it’s a massive gulf. Even though there’s huge perception Merc’s of the era didn’t live up to build standards of the past, to me it’s still leagues above what BMW offer(ed). Can’t comment on Jag though.
Have to say though, loved the SL55, CL55 and the M6 all in different ways. 500hp in most things is a good thing
Enjoy your SL!
I was looking at one of these - a CL600. Had a PP inspection done on one & then spoke to the owner's mechanic. He was very candid. He said forget the C215 and go for the later C216. His words were "They're chalk & cheese." He said you've got to go for a post-2006 Mercedes. In the next generation the build quality, technology and reliability took a huge leap.
The C215 was from Mercedes' low point which essentially ran from 1996 - 2006 during which it struggled to grapple with the corrosion issues presented by the move to water-based paint. The S-class saloon (W220) was also subject to corner-cutting as a result of the weight-reduction program for this model following the W140 series being so grossly over-weight which caused huge engineering problems & resulted in a massive program budget over-run.
This week I took delivery of a C216 CL600 with 50k and FMBSH from franchised dealers - and so far (touch wood) I'm really happy. It'll remain garaged like the 1988 BMW 750iL I've owned since 2000, which also has FSH from new with franchised BMW dealers & has been very reliable.
I supposed it comes down to finding a cherished car rather than one which has been ragged, ridden hard & put away wet!
The C215 was from Mercedes' low point which essentially ran from 1996 - 2006 during which it struggled to grapple with the corrosion issues presented by the move to water-based paint. The S-class saloon (W220) was also subject to corner-cutting as a result of the weight-reduction program for this model following the W140 series being so grossly over-weight which caused huge engineering problems & resulted in a massive program budget over-run.
This week I took delivery of a C216 CL600 with 50k and FMBSH from franchised dealers - and so far (touch wood) I'm really happy. It'll remain garaged like the 1988 BMW 750iL I've owned since 2000, which also has FSH from new with franchised BMW dealers & has been very reliable.
I supposed it comes down to finding a cherished car rather than one which has been ragged, ridden hard & put away wet!
PistonHeads always claims the big issues are overplayed. 996/7, 986/7 engines don’t go pop, abc systems don’t f*** up as standard. If you want to believe this pay your money and take your chance. But don’t say you weren’t warned. CLs are cheap for a reason. Pay 5k over 2.5k for one, but it doesn’t mean the abc won’t bankrupt you. Mercs of this age will crippple you. You might get lucky...
tigerkoi said:
cb, we seem to have opposite luck! I moved straight into an SL55 like you but I had numerous visits to MB (over the ABC - big moolah, please don’t ask ) but hey...in the whole scheme of things I just view it as the cost to play the game.
To add though, I thought the build and durability of material in my two MBs was a lot higher than in my M6, for instance. I fully appreciate that the SL and CL are generally seen as in the next bracket up to the E63/4, but I really feel it’s a massive gulf. Even though there’s huge perception Merc’s of the era didn’t live up to build standards of the past, to me it’s still leagues above what BMW offer(ed). Can’t comment on Jag though.
Have to say though, loved the SL55, CL55 and the M6 all in different ways. 500hp in most things is a good thing
Enjoy your SL!
I think for me it was a combination of issues - the build quality of the 840 was nowhere near as good as the 928, which really felt like it was hewn from granite, whereas the 840 was very disappointing in a number of areas - the rear splitter used to fall off regularly when exiting my driveway for example. Echoing the previous post some of the issues faced I just was not expecting on a prestige car with a full dealership history. That said at the time I was also seriously considering the CL500 as an alternative so perhaps I got off lightly! ) but hey...in the whole scheme of things I just view it as the cost to play the game.To add though, I thought the build and durability of material in my two MBs was a lot higher than in my M6, for instance. I fully appreciate that the SL and CL are generally seen as in the next bracket up to the E63/4, but I really feel it’s a massive gulf. Even though there’s huge perception Merc’s of the era didn’t live up to build standards of the past, to me it’s still leagues above what BMW offer(ed). Can’t comment on Jag though.
Have to say though, loved the SL55, CL55 and the M6 all in different ways. 500hp in most things is a good thing
Enjoy your SL!
I've owned a CL500(2000) for the past 8 months which I purchased for a little over £1k knowing it needed work. So far it's cost £1,700 in repairs to suspension including a new pump and a rear strut. It cost another £450 this week when it blew both centre cats, these were very cheap as you can see by the price. It still needs a damper for the pump, air con leak, rear window mechanism and the interior fan oiling/replacing.
One thing I will never get is people that want to buy top of the range cars and then complain they're complex and expensive to look after, if you want peace of mind buy a new one. In my case I have kept the costs down by going for the 5 litre, my choice if I was to buy again would be the N/A CL55, a gorgeous engine. I should have all the jobs out the way by the new year and it will be a pleasure to drive. The only thing it does make me think is how little I spend on my London Taxi, I think it's cost £200 in repairs since I owned it and it has over 400k on the clock, original everything!
One thing I will never get is people that want to buy top of the range cars and then complain they're complex and expensive to look after, if you want peace of mind buy a new one. In my case I have kept the costs down by going for the 5 litre, my choice if I was to buy again would be the N/A CL55, a gorgeous engine. I should have all the jobs out the way by the new year and it will be a pleasure to drive. The only thing it does make me think is how little I spend on my London Taxi, I think it's cost £200 in repairs since I owned it and it has over 400k on the clock, original everything!
Nice looking cars but that's a long old litany of issues to contend with.
Don't fancy the poor seller that has to spend the day with an overly cautious buyer...
Article says: 'After driving the car, if possible wait a few hours to check it has not settled on the suspension, which is a clear sign the ABC pump is failing.'
Don't fancy the poor seller that has to spend the day with an overly cautious buyer...
Article says: 'After driving the car, if possible wait a few hours to check it has not settled on the suspension, which is a clear sign the ABC pump is failing.'
I agree with Pyschosis’ summation...
Somewhere on PistonHeads I posted the man maths surrounding this model calculated after several years of ownership...it was not too bad when averaged out over a few years...yes I had all the nightmare bills...I think my conclusion was that you had to have the free cash flow to swallow the odd £3k bill...
Pretty much most of the time it was a glorious thing to waft about in...I used to drive mine all over Europe in some places people had never seen a CL before...
I also did the man maths on several years of S Class (w221) ownership...more went wrong but as with the CL it averaged out ok.
If you were to pick up a cherished one now...with all the major nightmares behind it, it could be relatively economical as I have a feeling these are beginning to appreciate a little now...
These CL’s were made with the most amazing materials and bits of advanced design you don’t see on other models...the door hinges alone were in my view marvellous....(bit nerdy).
Somewhere on PistonHeads I posted the man maths surrounding this model calculated after several years of ownership...it was not too bad when averaged out over a few years...yes I had all the nightmare bills...I think my conclusion was that you had to have the free cash flow to swallow the odd £3k bill...
Pretty much most of the time it was a glorious thing to waft about in...I used to drive mine all over Europe in some places people had never seen a CL before...
I also did the man maths on several years of S Class (w221) ownership...more went wrong but as with the CL it averaged out ok.
If you were to pick up a cherished one now...with all the major nightmares behind it, it could be relatively economical as I have a feeling these are beginning to appreciate a little now...
These CL’s were made with the most amazing materials and bits of advanced design you don’t see on other models...the door hinges alone were in my view marvellous....(bit nerdy).
I wouldn't mind a cheap broken one as a project, I'd want to delete as much of the nonsence out of it as possible though. Like pull out the fancy suspension and stick it on coilovers for example, plus any other superfluous electronic grubbins. Also, it could do with a manual box conversion, just saying...
Had 2...first one was about 6 years old, had electrical issues that Mercedes themselves had 4 goes at sorting, and couldn't, that went to auction.
Bought another, for about 7K some time later, apart from the electric seats having a mind of their own and the keyless go not working it was ok, if a little bland.
I wouldn't have another
Bought another, for about 7K some time later, apart from the electric seats having a mind of their own and the keyless go not working it was ok, if a little bland.
I wouldn't have another
SmartVenom said:
PistonHeads always claims the big issues are overplayed. 996/7, 986/7 engines don’t go pop, abc systems don’t f*** up as standard. If you want to believe this pay your money and take your chance. But don’t say you weren’t warned. CLs are cheap for a reason. Pay 5k over 2.5k for one, but it doesn’t mean the abc won’t bankrupt you. Mercs of this age will crippple you. You might get lucky...
Depends entirely how you want to play the ownership game.A lot of the back rep from these seem to come from people who quote dealer prices or simply drop the car at a garage unfamiliar with the cars and say 'Fix it'.
Most of the common pit falls can be repaired for far cheaper and easier than the figures you often see banded around.
A quick few examples from the article:
Valve blocks cost ~£1000 each. Yes... But they almost always fail because of leaky o rings, are easily accessible and replaced by a DIY mechanic. A "OMG, £1000+ bill!!!" becomes £80 and an afternoon's work on the driveway.
Pumps cost £1000+... Apart from when they can be refurbished for ~£150 DIY, ~£350 as an exchange or ~£500-£600 brand new if you get lucky on a ECP deal day. Not ideal, but pumps are good for another easy 50,000+ miles without failure in a well maintained ABC system.
The ones that can't? Well, you have to pay up and the money and try and get the use and enjoyment out of what you have paid for! Failures are usually in patterns/expected at certain miles. Components reach the end of the end of their service lives. You replace them once, and with proper care and maintenance, you're unlikely to be needing to replace them again.
As a short term prospect as running one for a couple of months, you might get burned on some repairs, but mid to long term where you are planning to get some enjoyment and use out of the maintenance, they start to make a lot more sense. They are by no means perfect cars, but they will represent excellent value in a world where people want ridiculous money for most vaguely interesting cars.
I don't mind throwing a bit of money here and there at a car if it still offers good value, especially in comparison to the increasingly limited choice of cars with the modern classic inflation going on. I often think about getting rid of my W220 600 cos truthfully it ain't the best example, and requires a fair bit of work, but frankly there isn't anything that can touch it in terms of performance, comfort and general package for even close to the money, so I'll spend a chuck of cash on it, keep it and get my money's worth out of it.
As a short term prospect as running one for a couple of months, you might get burned on some repairs, but mid to long term where you are planning to get some enjoyment and use out of the maintenance, they start to make a lot more sense. They are by no means perfect cars, but they will represent excellent value in a world where people want ridiculous money for most vaguely interesting cars.
And let's not forget that more expensive performance/prestige cars are not without their pitfaills. RS6s eating gearboxes. M5s munching bearings. Early 6.2 63AMGs have head bolt issues, etc.
Pay your money, take your choice and appreciate that complex cars can and sometimes do fail.
If you don't want the risk, I think Dacia will sell you a 1.0 hatchback with windy windows and warranty for around the price of a serviceable CL55/CL600. I know which one I want!
^^^ What this chap says. Once a complex car is aging and in the hands of enthusiasts and the aftermarket there are almost always solutions to the problems that used to be hyper expensive, it just takes more legwork and intelligence that running a Ford Focus.
Any complicated old beast is the same, go into it with your eyes open, and if you're willing to put some effort into fixes rather than drop it off and let a "mechanic" throw parts at it then there is usually no reason it'll bankrupt you. Note that a lot of the 1st hand stories of eye watering bills are from people who had them new or newish and went to the dealers, who are very expensive and pretty hopeless most of the time.
Not a car for someone who just wants to pour fuel in and drive, but if you want that buy new or buy a Carina E.
Any complicated old beast is the same, go into it with your eyes open, and if you're willing to put some effort into fixes rather than drop it off and let a "mechanic" throw parts at it then there is usually no reason it'll bankrupt you. Note that a lot of the 1st hand stories of eye watering bills are from people who had them new or newish and went to the dealers, who are very expensive and pretty hopeless most of the time.
Not a car for someone who just wants to pour fuel in and drive, but if you want that buy new or buy a Carina E.
Edited by dme123 on Friday 30th November 10:47
From day one I swore I had to have an AMG on 19's. And then I found this CL600 on stock 18's, but in the rare, and I think fabulous, Almandine Black. I actually think that the smooth lines of the non-AMG cars is actually the better looking machine. And please don't talk to me about CL500s wearing AMG badges and slightly wonky quad exhausts!!!!
With a full MB history and recent expenditure of £9k (Both coil packs, discs, pads, tyres, ABC sort-through) I thought it seemed a good one to buy. But I buy it with my eyes open, that it could easily throw me a £3k bill.
From day one I had a battery discharge issue, which we tracked, through diagnostics to an alarm, and TV Tuner, that wouldn't go to sleep. Took out the (analogue) TV Tuner, and replaced the alarm, no harm done.
That silky V12 is just sublime, wafty, smooth, and laugh out loud fast when you exercise it, with a real V12 snarl as you extend above about 2,500 rpm. Daily MPG (it is my 'station car') is about 6.5 mpg or so, but a recent 700 mile trip to Anglesey saw 24.1 mpg (it has cylinder shutdown).
Yes, like others with little imagination, I could lease a blue/grey/white Golf R, or I could drive a V12 leather/alcantara-lined behemouth that makes me look-back every time I park it up, and makes me chuckle every time I get into it and enjoy that extended starter motor whinny, followed by the whoomph of 12 cyclinders.
No competition. Buy well, keep a small sink-fund. And enjoy.
tch911 said:
From day one I swore I had to have an AMG on 19's. And then I found this CL600 on stock 18's, but in the rare, and I think fabulous, Almandine Black. I actually think that the smooth lines of the non-AMG cars is actually the better looking machine. And please don't talk to me about CL500s wearing AMG badges and slightly wonky quad exhausts!!!!
With a full MB history and recent expenditure of £9k (Both coil packs, discs, pads, tyres, ABC sort-through) I thought it seemed a good one to buy. But I buy it with my eyes open, that it could easily throw me a £3k bill.
From day one I had a battery discharge issue, which we tracked, through diagnostics to an alarm, and TV Tuner, that wouldn't go to sleep. Took out the (analogue) TV Tuner, and replaced the alarm, no harm done.
That silky V12 is just sublime, wafty, smooth, and laugh out loud fast when you exercise it, with a real V12 snarl as you extend above about 2,500 rpm. Daily MPG (it is my 'station car') is about 6.5 mpg or so, but a recent 700 mile trip to Anglesey saw 24.1 mpg (it has cylinder shutdown).
Yes, like others with little imagination, I could lease a blue/grey/white Golf R, or I could drive a V12 leather/alcantara-lined behemouth that makes me look-back every time I park it up, and makes me chuckle every time I get into it and enjoy that extended starter motor whinny, followed by the whoomph of 12 cyclinders.
No competition. Buy well, keep a small sink-fund. And enjoy.
I love the way the V12 starts - my old W140 600 SEL also started in a similar fashion, as well as my old E38 750iL.
Your man-maths is spot on - who wants a typical white goods vehicle when you can have this? Yes, some of those cars will be quicker of the mark, but tell you what, once on song, not much will keep up with the 600 mid range onward.
Had a CL500 a few years back - got it up to 120k miles before I ran out of brave pills - during my ownership the maintenance costs were surprisingly sensible (not tyres, but they're consumable rather than maintenance). That said lots of the electronics started going wrong in the run up to me getting rid so I avoided £7k of bills (at MB rates) by trading it in.
Lovely car, one of only two that I miss. Don't miss MB customer service though.
Lovely car, one of only two that I miss. Don't miss MB customer service though.
Like others, I like the look of these, but do not have the courage to own one. The stock suspension can be replaced by these; http://www.strutmasters.com/products/2001-2006-mer...
tch911 said:
From day one I swore I had to have an AMG on 19's. And then I found this CL600 on stock 18's, but in the rare, and I think fabulous, Almandine Black. I actually think that the smooth lines of the non-AMG cars is actually the better looking machine. And please don't talk to me about CL500s wearing AMG badges and slightly wonky quad exhausts!!!!
With a full MB history and recent expenditure of £9k (Both coil packs, discs, pads, tyres, ABC sort-through) I thought it seemed a good one to buy. But I buy it with my eyes open, that it could easily throw me a £3k bill.
From day one I had a battery discharge issue, which we tracked, through diagnostics to an alarm, and TV Tuner, that wouldn't go to sleep. Took out the (analogue) TV Tuner, and replaced the alarm, no harm done.
That silky V12 is just sublime, wafty, smooth, and laugh out loud fast when you exercise it, with a real V12 snarl as you extend above about 2,500 rpm. Daily MPG (it is my 'station car') is about 6.5 mpg or so, but a recent 700 mile trip to Anglesey saw 24.1 mpg (it has cylinder shutdown).
Yes, like others with little imagination, I could lease a blue/grey/white Golf R, or I could drive a V12 leather/alcantara-lined behemouth that makes me look-back every time I park it up, and makes me chuckle every time I get into it and enjoy that extended starter motor whinny, followed by the whoomph of 12 cyclinders.
No competition. Buy well, keep a small sink-fund. And enjoy.
Stunning car and colour! Just looks right to my eyes! Classy, elegant and non fussy, which are qualities not found in some other cars.
I keep telling myself that I want a C216 for all the toys and gadgets, but they seemed to be only available in sliver or black.
Almandine Black is an absolutely stunning colour and suits the C215s so well. A cheap enough Bi-Turbo 600 in that colour is one of those "Shut up and take my money" prospects without a second thought.
6.5 mpg? Good effort! I thought the 8.5 I get around London from my w220 was bad enough! The V12 engines are as smooth and powerful as anything, but you can literally see the fuel gauge moving when pressing on!
Oh, and that starter motor sound!
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 30th November 14:13
TiMopar said:
Like others, I like the look of these, but do not have the courage to own one. The stock suspension can be replaced by these; http://www.strutmasters.com/products/2001-2006-mer...
IMHO, thats akin to buying a Ferrari and swapping in a small block Chevy, or buying a Bentley and fitting OMP bucket seats.ABC/Hydraulic suspension is truly a engineering marvel and technically THE best way of suspending a vehicle. It's a benefit that not enough cars get credit for.
Nearly as good ride quality as air, instant height changes without annoyingly loud pumps and next to no body roll despite usually being fitted to cars with immense weight.
I bet pressing on in a 2ton+ car with just those coil springs and no anti roll bars must be... interesting!
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff