Discussion
For those of a more "open minded" and critical way of thinking, I'd thought I'd share this interesting video on the dangers of 5G.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdmuiOpCEik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdmuiOpCEik
Edited by Jukebag on Thursday 6th December 15:54
Quite why he's linking the "internet of things" with the "dangers of 5G". I have no idea, as most IoT devices will tend to be connected via local wifi rather than cellular data links.
Definite conspiracy theory nutter in my book. Take a sprinkling of "facts" then link them together with theories about the agenda of "those in power".
Yeah - I'd believe everything he says - particularly worth checking out his other videos attempting to prove the earth is flat!
I also noticed that one of his arguments in the linked video is that "they" want us to go to a cashless society. His main problems with that included the fact that many business owners get paid in cash, and put a little bit extra away often to pay for essentials, which they may not be able to afford otherwise. The other way of putting this is that they are basically stealing from the taxman - something that most people doing regular jobs don't/can't do. He also doesn't mention the fact that a cashless society would make it far more difficult for various criminals to operate - whether casually selling illegal drugs, or fundamentally living their lives outside of the normal rules of society - perhaps not even having a permanent home, but "travelling" from place to place and exchanging dodgy work for cash in hand, and paying no taxes at all?
Definite conspiracy theory nutter in my book. Take a sprinkling of "facts" then link them together with theories about the agenda of "those in power".
Yeah - I'd believe everything he says - particularly worth checking out his other videos attempting to prove the earth is flat!
I also noticed that one of his arguments in the linked video is that "they" want us to go to a cashless society. His main problems with that included the fact that many business owners get paid in cash, and put a little bit extra away often to pay for essentials, which they may not be able to afford otherwise. The other way of putting this is that they are basically stealing from the taxman - something that most people doing regular jobs don't/can't do. He also doesn't mention the fact that a cashless society would make it far more difficult for various criminals to operate - whether casually selling illegal drugs, or fundamentally living their lives outside of the normal rules of society - perhaps not even having a permanent home, but "travelling" from place to place and exchanging dodgy work for cash in hand, and paying no taxes at all?
Having worked in telecoms for the best part of 20 years I'd rather hoped we'd left this sort of nonsense behind but no. It seems 5G is going to be latched on to as the next bad thing and people like me will have our jobs made more difficult because of idiots protesting everywhere.
Quick question for the OP. What's the difference between 5G and 4G that means one is evil and the other is benign?
Quick question for the OP. What's the difference between 5G and 4G that means one is evil and the other is benign?
I had the feeling I would get this kind of reaction, and I have to say I disagree. This stuff is certainly not the ramblings of "conspiracy theorists", but has some actual basis in fact, backed up by credible people, if only one would be bothered to take the time to do their research.
We already know that our internet activity, including our personal emails, are constantly snooped on (Edward Snowden?), so why wouldn't companies want to do the same for their own benefit?. Linking things like this to flat earth is just ridiculous and an attempt to label people as conspiracy nutters, and most people in that field (the majority that is) are certainly not flat earth believers.
We already know that our internet activity, including our personal emails, are constantly snooped on (Edward Snowden?), so why wouldn't companies want to do the same for their own benefit?. Linking things like this to flat earth is just ridiculous and an attempt to label people as conspiracy nutters, and most people in that field (the majority that is) are certainly not flat earth believers.
Edited by Jukebag on Thursday 6th December 15:56
Jukebag said:
Linking things like this to flat earth is just ridiculous and an attempt to label people as conspiracy nutters, and most people in that field (the majority that is) are certainly not flat earth believers.
Ok - since I was the one who linked this to flat earth nutters.The guy that posted the video you linked to on YouTube is Flat Max UK.
Clicking on his name takes you to his "homepage" here.
Several of the videos, including the one at the top of his page are proporting to give evidence that the earth is flat.
I rather think you've managed to link this to the flat earth conspiracy nutters all by yourself.
Normally I wouldn't have made any comparison to the flat earth lot, as there seems no sensible connection. The only reason I did was that I decided to look at some of this guy's other videos - that is all.
When the video is posted by a flat earther, it kind of undermines the credibility of other videos he posts.
That's before actually looking at the video and seeing it's full of conspiracy type rubbish about the "dangers" of 5G. It's just a further development of 4G.
Some of the stuff on Smart Meters isn't far off - in order to manage demand in the future it's likely they could be used to control/limit output to those houses with them fitted. That is provided you don't switch your electricity supplier and render your smart meter immediately dumb again due to the non-existant standardisation on these things when they started fitting them in the first place.....
Jukebag said:
I had the feeling I would get this kind of reaction, and I have to say I disagree. This stuff is certainly not the ramblings of "conspiracy theorists", but has some actual basis in fact, backed up by credible people, if only one would be bothered to take the time to do their research.
We already know that our internet activity, including our personal emails, are constantly snooped on (Edward Snowden?), so why wouldn't companies want to do the same for their own benefit?. Linking things like this to flat earth is just ridiculous and an attempt to label people as conspiracy nutters, and most people in that field (the majority that is) are certainly not flat earth believers.
When you say, "this stuff" - which stuff, specifically? Whilst the bloke in the linked video is without a shadow of a doubt a grade A loon, that doesn't necessarily mean that everything he says is total rubbish. So, which "stuff" do you think is relevant, factual and accurate?We already know that our internet activity, including our personal emails, are constantly snooped on (Edward Snowden?), so why wouldn't companies want to do the same for their own benefit?. Linking things like this to flat earth is just ridiculous and an attempt to label people as conspiracy nutters, and most people in that field (the majority that is) are certainly not flat earth believers.
w.r.t your point about snooping and the explosion in individual tracking that has happened in the last few years - yes absolutely that's a very real concern. But it's got bugger all to do with 5G.
[quote=C&C]Quite why he's linking the "internet of things" with the "dangers of 5G". I have no idea, as most IoT devices will tend to be connected via local wifi rather than cellular data links.
Definite conspiracy theory nutter in my book. Take a sprinkling of "facts" then link them together with theories about the agenda of "those in power".
Yeah - I'd believe everything he says - particularly worth checking out his other videos attempting to prove the earth is flat!
I also noticed that one of his arguments in the linked video is that "they" want us to go to a cashless society. His main problems with that included the fact that many business owners get paid in cash, and put a little bit extra away often to pay for essentials, which they may not be able to afford otherwise. The other way of putting this is that they are basically stealing from the taxman - something that most people doing regular jobs don't/can't do. He also doesn't mention the fact that a cashless society would make it far more difficult for various criminals to operate - whether casually selling illegal drugs, or fundamentally living their lives outside of the normal rules of society - perhaps not even having a permanent home, but "travelling" from place to place and exchanging dodgy work for cash in hand, and paying no taxes at all?
[/quote]
In the future the internet of things is expected to be connected to 5G. In fact it’s likely that there’ll just be indoor 5G cells, rather than Wi-fi.
Definite conspiracy theory nutter in my book. Take a sprinkling of "facts" then link them together with theories about the agenda of "those in power".
Yeah - I'd believe everything he says - particularly worth checking out his other videos attempting to prove the earth is flat!
I also noticed that one of his arguments in the linked video is that "they" want us to go to a cashless society. His main problems with that included the fact that many business owners get paid in cash, and put a little bit extra away often to pay for essentials, which they may not be able to afford otherwise. The other way of putting this is that they are basically stealing from the taxman - something that most people doing regular jobs don't/can't do. He also doesn't mention the fact that a cashless society would make it far more difficult for various criminals to operate - whether casually selling illegal drugs, or fundamentally living their lives outside of the normal rules of society - perhaps not even having a permanent home, but "travelling" from place to place and exchanging dodgy work for cash in hand, and paying no taxes at all?
[/quote]
In the future the internet of things is expected to be connected to 5G. In fact it’s likely that there’ll just be indoor 5G cells, rather than Wi-fi.
jurbie said:
Having worked in telecoms for the best part of 20 years I'd rather hoped we'd left this sort of nonsense behind but no. It seems 5G is going to be latched on to as the next bad thing and people like me will have our jobs made more difficult because of idiots protesting everywhere.
Quick question for the OP. What's the difference between 5G and 4G that means one is evil and the other is benign?
I'm far more interested in knowing the seance [sic] (science) between the two, is it a case of smaller similar frequency overlapping cells, i.e. at a much lower power? If not where is the extra bandwidth coming from for the 5G network? New encoding? Has CDMA been dropped?Quick question for the OP. What's the difference between 5G and 4G that means one is evil and the other is benign?
What I do know is that in SatComms we were always trying to get our kit to 'whisper' and not 'shout'. Frequency reuse/planning was the biggest issue and hence satellites were launched back in 2005 that had very tight spot beams.
The best thing you can do in my mind to achieve a 5G network is get every terminal to speak very quietly to its nearest base-station/mast and have lots of masts for it to choose from.
In my mind, the only way for a 5G network to work is that we reduce as much noise as possible - remember that to your phone which is perhaps streaming a YouTube vid, every other phone in your vicinity is creating RF noise that is stopping your phone from achieving its goal, and your phone is creating just as much noise to everyone else using the network.
The nonsense that newer phones are ever more powerful in order to achieve these data rates and thus 'microwaving our brains' doesn't add up in the world of physics - designers and manufacturers are doing their utmost to reduce the power required for your phone to function.
So jurbie as you're in the industry, would you give a quick summary to the difference between 4 and 5 G - I'm ten years out of the game.
Trying to get my head around it all myself, but they have not yet finalised the spec I believe.
But very roughly, different frequency bands, eg 3.5 GHz, 6 GHz, then the so-called mmWave stuff at much higher frequencies (24 GHz and beyond).
Obviously the higher the frequency the poorer the propogation but the plan is lots and lots of micro cells, as you guessed. 24 GHz allows much wider bandwidth channels to be used, with a corresponding increase in bitrate. Off the top of my head the aim is to have one million connected devices per square kilometre.
Then the encoding and modulation technology is improving, I believe the aim is for the whole system to be agile and to be able to swap between modulation and encoding methods depending on need.
They are also looking at improving capacity at the cell edges, I guess that will also be driven by the implementation of smaller cells.
Oh yes, and steerable beam antennae/beam forming technology, and lots of frequency re-use.
As I mentioned before, there'll also be a drive to improve indoor coverage, so that'll mean the implementation of small cells inside buildings etc. I suspect we will see wifi disappear over time as most new kit will connect to 5G, but we shall see.
But very roughly, different frequency bands, eg 3.5 GHz, 6 GHz, then the so-called mmWave stuff at much higher frequencies (24 GHz and beyond).
Obviously the higher the frequency the poorer the propogation but the plan is lots and lots of micro cells, as you guessed. 24 GHz allows much wider bandwidth channels to be used, with a corresponding increase in bitrate. Off the top of my head the aim is to have one million connected devices per square kilometre.
Then the encoding and modulation technology is improving, I believe the aim is for the whole system to be agile and to be able to swap between modulation and encoding methods depending on need.
They are also looking at improving capacity at the cell edges, I guess that will also be driven by the implementation of smaller cells.
Oh yes, and steerable beam antennae/beam forming technology, and lots of frequency re-use.
As I mentioned before, there'll also be a drive to improve indoor coverage, so that'll mean the implementation of small cells inside buildings etc. I suspect we will see wifi disappear over time as most new kit will connect to 5G, but we shall see.
Super Slo Mo said:
Loads of interesting suff ^
What frustrates me is that the designers of mobile networks are trying their hardest to cram as much data as possible into a limited spectrum and yet the public imbeciles complain that they getting 'microwaved'.Ten or so years ago I tried to get one of the so called 'rural broadband' schemes up and running, on one of our sites I'd pulled the power on the base station way down but because the antenna was a metre long dipole, the resident property owner could not comprehend that her tiny mobile phone was emitting more EMF than my 'huge' antenna.
Nuts!
Anyway, I don't have access to the 3GPP Working Group documents any more, also surprised to read what Inmarsat are doing now since I last did any work with them 10+ years ago, most of the stuff I worked on has been retired.
I'm really curious to get a quick insight into the differences between 4G & 5G, I'm long out of contributing in this game.
I'm in the Broadcast TV game, but we are all looking at this stuff as we are getting squeezed out of what tiny bit remains of the existing spectrum as it is. My learning curve is very steep at the moment!
Things like remote production using LTE/5G are looking quite interesting at the moment, although whether our tiny industry will be accommodated by the telco's is another question entirely.
Yes, the general public usually have no idea.
I've been harangued by camera operators before moaning about receive antennae near them 'concentrating' the RF...
.
The worst ones are those who've done a tiny bit of research, read about gamma radiation then put 2 and 2 together and made 7, (i.e they've decided 2.2 GHz RF at 100mW is dangerous), then talk loudly about it as though they are experts, scaring everyone else in the process.
Things like remote production using LTE/5G are looking quite interesting at the moment, although whether our tiny industry will be accommodated by the telco's is another question entirely.
Yes, the general public usually have no idea.
I've been harangued by camera operators before moaning about receive antennae near them 'concentrating' the RF...
. The worst ones are those who've done a tiny bit of research, read about gamma radiation then put 2 and 2 together and made 7, (i.e they've decided 2.2 GHz RF at 100mW is dangerous), then talk loudly about it as though they are experts, scaring everyone else in the process.
^^^ 
I've been considering doing some stoopid number 'research' to correlate the increase in 2.xx GHz microwave radiation from hand held devices vs CO2, all in the Man Made Global Warming arena.
I mean there must be a few billion 100mW+ mini microwave ovens out there already and we all know microwaves make things hotter!
I've been considering doing some stoopid number 'research' to correlate the increase in 2.xx GHz microwave radiation from hand held devices vs CO2, all in the Man Made Global Warming arena.
I mean there must be a few billion 100mW+ mini microwave ovens out there already and we all know microwaves make things hotter!
Super Slo Mo said:
I'm in the Broadcast TV game, but we are all looking at this stuff as we are getting squeezed out of what tiny bit remains of the existing spectrum as it is. My learning curve is very steep at the moment!
One thing that was being looked at 10yrs ago to address this was IP multicast.It already being done/developed by cable TV providers who would sell you TV and Broadband down the same wire. There being a constant 1000+ channels of shared public 'broadcast' streams along side your own private Internet stream.
Multicast technology aimed to 'switch off' unrequired broadcast streams into segments of the network unless they were required (or better put, turn on shared streams that were requested by nodes (humans wanting to watch EastEnders) on to those segments of the network) .
This is a massive problem on a shared RF spectrum network, the only way to achieve it is to turn down everyone's power and use lots of smaller cells with as little overlap as possible.
Frequency reuse is the only name in town, which means more towers and (surprisingly/obviously) this gives better battery life for the customer.
Uninterrupted IP handover from one tower to the next whilst you are sat on a train streaming Emmerdale to your phone is one thing, getting the core network to accommodate the multicast stream adjustments and then at the very worst the network requires a frequency adjustment, it has to make a decision to hand off all the mobiles on one frequency to another so that the now 'free' frequency can be handed off for use to the cell tower next door where previously no one was watching Corenation Street but now lots of people want it.
All of this is happening in real time; while you walk down a street in a big city, your phone is being told to retune and talk to this tower, now retune talk to that tower, ok now retune to this tower, spectrum (frequencies) is being handed back and forth constantly according to demand, your IP stream (youtube, iPlayer, skype call etc) end-point is being moved back and forth seamlessly.
Tell that to the kids now a days and they look at you with blank faces.
It's an incredible feat of engineering and all done because there isn't enough RF spectrum for all of us.
Edit:
Forgot to say to the OP in his terms:
2G very bad
3G bad
4G better
5G much better
Edited by JustALooseScrew on Thursday 6th December 19:26
JustALooseScrew said:
^^^
I've been considering doing some stoopid number 'research' to correlate the increase in 2.xx GHz microwave radiation from hand held devices vs CO2, all in the Man Made Global Warming arena.
I mean there must be a few billion 100mW+ mini microwave ovens out there already and we all know microwaves make things hotter!
I didn’t see the funny side at the time... Stupid twit was trying to stop me installing antennas near his camera. I've been considering doing some stoopid number 'research' to correlate the increase in 2.xx GHz microwave radiation from hand held devices vs CO2, all in the Man Made Global Warming arena.
I mean there must be a few billion 100mW+ mini microwave ovens out there already and we all know microwaves make things hotter!
I think mobile phones and the like are a bit more powerful than 100mW, that’s the typical output from a wireless TV camera.
The handover stuff is clever, I’ve been swotting up on it all so that I have a vague understanding of the technology before I start looking at 5G in detail.
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