How does a electric car compare with a diesel performance

How does a electric car compare with a diesel performance

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wst

3,065 posts

97 months

Thursday
quotequote all
Stu08 said:
MrOrange said:
You know it’s not relevant as (almost) no one does that journey, or would even consider driving 850 miles in a single sitting. Unless you’re racing. They call this an extreme edge case. The average driver covers less than 20 miles per day. But you knew that, you were just setting up to illustrate how much more efficient and cheaper an EV is:

850 miles in a 335d would burn through £150 of diesel and dump a quarter of a tonne of CO2 into the atmosphere.

A Tesla over the same distance would cost you a tenner and dump nothing into the lungs of our upcoming generation.
A Tesla will dump nothing into the lungs of upcoming generations?
Only ones that are 200 feet tall and walk to school next to power stations will suffer. And it's easier to get power stations to clean up their act - see "every garage that'll do a dpf delete and pass an MOT on that vehicle anyway".

poing

8,138 posts

136 months

Thursday
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gazza285 said:
That would depend on how far you are going, it would take you about fourteen hours in your diesel to get from Land’s End to John’O’Groats, and about forty five hours in the Tesla, assuming it started with a full charge...
Are you genuinely stupid enough to think it would take 31 hours of charging time in a Tesla for that journey? It might if you were using a 3 pin plug from the mains but then that would be like using a pipette to fill the diesel.

covmutley

1,648 posts

126 months

Thursday
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Wow. Some people really can't handle the thought of EV 's can they!

We all know they are new tech and don't meet all people's needs yet.

But to start doubting they aren't better for environment and that all the multinational manufacturers moving to electric have somehow got it wrong, I think you need to question whether your just speaking rubbish.

Matthen

1,006 posts

87 months

Thursday
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austinsmirk said:
it will outrun any generic 2 l petrol/diesel lump in the red light race. she absolutely loves this, when spotty yoofs think they'll blast past in the outer lane.
Parkers put the 0-62 of the current leaf @ 8.2 seconds. A 2L diesel (as generic as they come) does it in 7.8 - half a second faster.

Assuming the outer lane runs for more than about 20 yards, the leaf will end up behind. Yes, they're quick off the line, but in a similar way to a city car - they run out of puff all too soon. I feel it's more likely the "yoofs" are driving 1.2 corsas, combined with the jerk of the initial acceleration, giving you the (false) impression that the leaf is a fast car.

paranoid airbag

2,678 posts

95 months

Thursday
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edd344 said:
Believe me if 24 million EVs were to suddenly appear on the road tomorrow our grid would not cope.
That's got to win an award for "most technically correct yet incredibly dense observation of the day".

Shall we think of some other implausible-bordering-on-impossible things that would trouble the UK's infrastructure? My god, what would happen if everyone tried to fly out of Stansted tomorrow? We wouldn't cope! Clearly air travel is a hopeless idea.
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gazza285

4,523 posts

144 months

Thursday
quotequote all
poing said:
gazza285 said:
That would depend on how far you are going, it would take you about fourteen hours in your diesel to get from Land’s End to John’O’Groats, and about forty five hours in the Tesla, assuming it started with a full charge...
Are you genuinely stupid enough to think it would take 31 hours of charging time in a Tesla for that journey? It might if you were using a 3 pin plug from the mains but then that would be like using a pipette to fill the diesel.
That is at the rate suggested the average house on a single phase supply could deliver, using a three pin plug would take much longer.

Assuming you could find a supercharger every time it needed charging, and you could charge at the theoretical maximum, you are still looking at over three hours sat about while it charges.

kurokawa

119 posts

44 months

Thursday
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Been in the market searching a second car for my partner to replace the R56

Try Leaf, and i3 they are quick, very quick at 0-something, quiet as well
Leaf is spacious enough for small family with kids, but the drive is very dull, interior materials is little bit let down for a car cost over 25k

having more fun driving the i3 and interior materials certainly better, but it is also way more expensive than leaf, and smaller, less range as well

and we decide will stick with ICE for now, really interest in EV however, the options are too limit, and they arent cheap either. With EV SUV coming to market, I am sure we will be able to see EV roadster/convertible, or something fun to drive that an average joe will be able to afford, and we will see super charge that take less than 10 minutes

wst

3,065 posts

97 months

Thursday
quotequote all
gazza285 said:
poing said:
gazza285 said:
That would depend on how far you are going, it would take you about fourteen hours in your diesel to get from Land’s End to John’O’Groats, and about forty five hours in the Tesla, assuming it started with a full charge...
Are you genuinely stupid enough to think it would take 31 hours of charging time in a Tesla for that journey? It might if you were using a 3 pin plug from the mains but then that would be like using a pipette to fill the diesel.
That is at the rate suggested the average house on a single phase supply could deliver, using a three pin plug would take much longer.

Assuming you could find a supercharger every time it needed charging, and you could charge at the theoretical maximum, you are still looking at over three hours sat about while it charges.
3 hours of charge time isn't unreasonable over a 14 hour journey. I know the Tesla might be doing most of the mile-munching driving all by itself, meaning you're not as knackered after 4 hours solid driving, but I think the normal human driver (aka not a 0.1% outlier) will be fine having a mooch for an hour a couple of times on a long run.

poing

8,138 posts

136 months

Thursday
quotequote all
gazza285 said:
poing said:
gazza285 said:
That would depend on how far you are going, it would take you about fourteen hours in your diesel to get from Land’s End to John’O’Groats, and about forty five hours in the Tesla, assuming it started with a full charge...
Are you genuinely stupid enough to think it would take 31 hours of charging time in a Tesla for that journey? It might if you were using a 3 pin plug from the mains but then that would be like using a pipette to fill the diesel.
That is at the rate suggested the average house on a single phase supply could deliver, using a three pin plug would take much longer.

Assuming you could find a supercharger every time it needed charging, and you could charge at the theoretical maximum, you are still looking at over three hours sat about while it charges.
It's been done already. It didn't take 45 hours, it took 18 hours 53 minutes in a P85D which isn't the Tesla with biggest range. That was 3 years ago so there are more chargers by now making it even easier.
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/customer-stories/lands...

Finding a charger is not that hard. The grey ones are new chargers being installed.

mygoldfishbowl

2,642 posts

79 months

So with modern technology it'll only take an extra 5 hrs to do that trip than it currently does, progress is a wonderful thing. At the rate progress is going that same journey may soon only take a week.



Edited by mygoldfishbowl on Friday 7th December 00:32

rainmakerraw

946 posts

62 months

MrOrange said:
A Tesla over the same distance would cost you a tenner and dump nothing into the lungs of our upcoming generation.
Nothing? Are you quite sure? Even if we ignore the copious quantities of pollution emitted during the mining, refining, manufacture and distribution of rare earth elements and metals for batteries, there is also the question of particulate matter. That nefarious stuff that gets deep into the lungs and causes cardio-pulmonary disease and early death.

Diesel usually gets the finger for this one, but actually studies show that most PM pollution comes from non-tailpipe emissions such as tyres, brakes and re-suspension of matter from the road surface. Studies also repeatedly show that EVs give out the same amount of PM pollution/emissions as ICE vehicles even without tailpipe emissions (in part due to their extra weight). In low speed limit areas, especially those with speed humps et al., PM levels are dangerously high. Ironically this is most prevalent around schools and in residential housing adjoining main roads.

I have no beef whatsoever with EVs, but let's not pretend they're kissing children as they pass on by.

Source.
Source.
Source.

kambites

55,377 posts

157 months

rainmakerraw said:
Studies also repeatedly show that EVs give out the same amount of PM pollution/emissions as ICE vehicles even without tailpipe emissions (in part due to their extra weight).
Studies tend to show that the total emissions generated by EVs are roughly the same as the tail-pipe emissions of ICE powered cars, conveniently ignoring all the non-tailpipe emissions associated with internal combustion engines. Such studies also tend to assume that all or most of the electricity is generated from coal when in the UK less than 10% is.

Of course you couldn't call EV's "environmentally friendly", no car is that for the reasons you cite, but in the UK they are a damned slight better than ICE powered cars even by the most biased of estimates and unlikely petrol and diesel powered cars which tend to get worse in terms of emissions as they age, EVs will probably get better as the electricity generation mix shifts further away from fossil fuels.

Edited by kambites on Friday 7th December 07:38

gangzoom

1,371 posts

151 months

mawallace said:
Example - I tend to corner in a low gear so that I can accelerate once out of it. I've got a diesel and it pulls away sharply out of the bend - which my wife's car struggles to do so.

What is the experience of those with pure electric?
Coming back to OPs question....

I have the slowest car Tesla current sell in the UK, but despite been a 6 seater, 2.5ton family wagon, even 'sports' cars don't seem to be able to pull away from it. Infact when following the 355 I had to go light with the right foot as I didn't want to close the gap to Audi driver levels wink

https://youtu.be/aZmUkwhC3kc

https://youtu.be/j-uf9hf0jBk

mawallace said:
Also, what about heating in winter - how does that work?
You loss about 10-20% range in winter depending on journey type. Short trips drain range more as you have to heat up the cabin from cold, where as long trips where you maintain the range its not an issue. The only time I've really needed to push the range on ours in the last 18 months was a drive from Edinburgh to Leicester where we stopped at Leeds overnight due to a conference my wife was attending. Average temp was not much above 5 degrees, had our 18 month old in the car so heating set to 21, got home with 6% spare after 200 miles.


boitjie

71 posts

11 months

MrOrange said:
A Tesla over the same distance would cost you a tenner and dump nothing into the lungs of our upcoming generation.
I have no beef (I'm not vegan either wink ) against EV. But you need to make a more holistic view of the environmental impact. It is great to say that driving the EV has no direct CO2 impact. But what about producing the electricity - it's not all produced in an environmentally friendly way? What is the environmental impact of the manufacturing process compared to ICE? I don't know - just sayin'

thedugmaster

888 posts

95 months

Baldchap said:
thedugmaster said:
Baldchap said:
We have a Model X P100D, which is the big people carrier. Torque is absolutely instant. It's not far off my motorbike in terms of throttle response at pretty much any speed, but especially below 100mph.

I'd wager there isn't a diesel anywhere that goes faster at any point sub 100mph.

Re heating: It has 'normal' climate control, heated seats (all six), screens and wheel. It doesn't seem to significantly impact range.
Ignoring all of the manufacturer's hype, which as we all know is absolute billix, what's the range like from full to flat, with the heater / air con on etc?
Realistically under normal driving (it lives in Ludicrous mode, though obviously not at full throttle all the time) it does about 250 miles. For 700 horses and six/seven seats, that's acceptable to me. A 200 mile charge is 20 minutes at a supercharger. Home charger is about 46 miles per hour.
Interesting, thanks. That's well on the way to being acceptable for me.

Once they get to the point that they can do 350+ miles on a charge and be back up to full beans (from flat) in under an hour I'll probably get one for work, instead of going everywhere by trains, planes and taxis.

RobDickinson

24,190 posts

190 months

thedugmaster said:
Once they get to the point that they can do 350+ miles on a charge and be back up to full beans (from flat) in under an hour I'll probably get one for work, instead of going everywhere by trains, planes and taxis.
Not far off.. Kona can do 500km300 miles as can the Tesla model 3 both will be £30-40k or so. It'll take less an hour at a fast charger to get to 80% on both which is the sensible way to charge, the last 20% being slow.

We'll have 800v and larger batteries using those new 350kw chargers soon that should easily cover that requirement.

boitjie said:
What is the environmental impact of the manufacturing process compared to ICE? I don't know - just sayin'
The CO2 impact is higher to manufacture (like for like), it takes only ~2 years for payback though and cars tend to live 15+ years, EVs should last even longer.

OP - torque and instant response is a fundamental with EVs, and if one has the range you need you'll wake up with it full every morning (provided you can home charge) and never have to visit a petrol station again.

Look at the Kona electric, 200bhp, 500km range and a fun drive (if FWD), the i3 is quite funky too the interior is ace and the new one has 260km range.

Spumfry

772 posts

98 months

mygoldfishbowl said:
So with modern technology it'll only take an extra 5 hrs to do that trip than it currently does, progress is a wonderful thing. At the rate progress is going that same journey may soon only take a week.
Who cares? How often do you drive non-stop from Land's End to John O'Groats?

If you are doing it regularly enough (now), you choose the tool for the job, and if journey time is more important than journey cost you probably wouldn't choose an electric car. In 5 or 10 years time, range and charging speed will bring the journey time for the electric car back in to parity with ICE cars.

austinsmirk

3,176 posts

59 months

Matthen said:
austinsmirk said:
it will outrun any generic 2 l petrol/diesel lump in the red light race. she absolutely loves this, when spotty yoofs think they'll blast past in the outer lane.
Parkers put the 0-62 of the current leaf @ 8.2 seconds. A 2L diesel (as generic as they come) does it in 7.8 - half a second faster.

Assuming the outer lane runs for more than about 20 yards, the leaf will end up behind. Yes, they're quick off the line, but in a similar way to a city car - they run out of puff all too soon. I feel it's more likely the "yoofs" are driving 1.2 corsas, combined with the jerk of the initial acceleration, giving you the (false) impression that the leaf is a fast car.
trust me, in the sprint from the lights around town- in 30/40 mph sections- you win !!!

ditto, duel carriageways, from roundabout starts- it nails them. yes by the time yr at 50, its starting to back off- but the way it puts the torque down, no wheel spin and just sets off, is pretty good fun.

I'll be honest though, its very amusing because yr average audi/bmw whatever driver who assumes they'll fly past you (in yr little battery car) don't and can't: plus yr car has no screaming engine, gear changes- it just does it all silently.

but, as I said, its no sports car by any stretch- its a domestic appliance and a reasonably rapid and amusing way to sit in traffic.

average speed has been 17 mph over 8000 miles. says a lot about driving: and I live in a village, by the moors and its very rural- i.e this isn't London city driving.

our diesel fuel bill of £200 a mth on 2 cars is now

£22 mth electric
£60 diesel mth............ you simply end up using the EV all the time as its so cheap to travel.

plus work pay me £80/£100 a mth for fuel anyway, so its a bit of a win win really.

never really been in a position where to have a car, its effectively for a few pounds.


wst

3,065 posts

97 months

Spumfry said:
Who cares? How often do you drive non-stop from Land's End to John O'Groats?
You should always buy a car based on not being inconvenienced for a few hours on 0.01% of journeys.

RizzoTheRat

17,367 posts

128 months

HD Adam said:
But, do you think any Govt. or local council will be able to put the charging points & infrastructure in the next 5 years?

Lot's of the UK looks like this.

Parking's similar to that around where I'm living a the moment in the Netherlands, there's about 15 or 20 charge points within 100 yds of my flat. They just have a post on the side of the road with marked up space either side of it. If you buy an EV or a PHEV you register it with the municipality so they know the requirement, and they're trying to increase the number of charge points in line with the need.