RE: BMW M2 Competition vs. Porsche Cayman GT4
Discussion
This caught my attention in the article:
“And while it is great, more willing to rev, more responsive to the throttle and more pleasant to listen to, that rabid edge from the senior models is lacking. Maybe it's the missing power, maybe it's having a manual here and only automatic experience in the others, or maybe it's the mapping; whatever the case, that searing energy over the final few revs, the bit that makes that 3.0-litre twin-turbo six feel like a proper M engine, isn't quite there. Bizarre.”
There does seem to be an explanation in the quoted performance numbers, where torque peaks just prior to a flat max horsepower output. It suggests the torque output has been strangled in order to cap power at an artificial max, and that’s borne out by this dyno graph:
Seems a bit cynical; likely the car would have been slightly slower than the larger but lighter M3/M4 pairing anyway. This kind of artificial neutering (particularly when it’s subjectively apparent) is infuriating.
“And while it is great, more willing to rev, more responsive to the throttle and more pleasant to listen to, that rabid edge from the senior models is lacking. Maybe it's the missing power, maybe it's having a manual here and only automatic experience in the others, or maybe it's the mapping; whatever the case, that searing energy over the final few revs, the bit that makes that 3.0-litre twin-turbo six feel like a proper M engine, isn't quite there. Bizarre.”
There does seem to be an explanation in the quoted performance numbers, where torque peaks just prior to a flat max horsepower output. It suggests the torque output has been strangled in order to cap power at an artificial max, and that’s borne out by this dyno graph:
Seems a bit cynical; likely the car would have been slightly slower than the larger but lighter M3/M4 pairing anyway. This kind of artificial neutering (particularly when it’s subjectively apparent) is infuriating.
This may explain the difference between the S55 in the M2C and M3/4
https://www.bluesparkautomotive.com/projects/m4c-m...
https://www.bluesparkautomotive.com/projects/m4c-m...
Seems a bit of an odd comparison to me. I would have thought something like a 997.2S or something for similar money would have been an equivalent comparison? That and the M2 are two cars I will be comparing as my next family car so interesting to read.
I thought the Cayman GT4 was a really good all rounder (I had mine for a while and drove hard on road and track) - but isn't really that hardcore at all so can be used every day, provided you can live with the low front splitter. And as other have said, the 918 seats have a hard edge, though are very supportive and comfortable.
Whilst asking prices may seem high, you will be losing money on trade in - I would have thought most cars would have been in the £75-85k bracket when new. So they aren't as immune to depreciation as some may think.
IMO the GT4 was a great car but not particularly exciting if you are after something that you can take out for a blast on road in the UK and like your cars raw.
But as a usable all rounder that you can use on road and track, a very complete car.
I thought the Cayman GT4 was a really good all rounder (I had mine for a while and drove hard on road and track) - but isn't really that hardcore at all so can be used every day, provided you can live with the low front splitter. And as other have said, the 918 seats have a hard edge, though are very supportive and comfortable.
Whilst asking prices may seem high, you will be losing money on trade in - I would have thought most cars would have been in the £75-85k bracket when new. So they aren't as immune to depreciation as some may think.
IMO the GT4 was a great car but not particularly exciting if you are after something that you can take out for a blast on road in the UK and like your cars raw.
But as a usable all rounder that you can use on road and track, a very complete car.
SidewaysSi said:
Seems a bit of an odd comparison to me. I would have thought something like a 997.2S or something for similar money would have been an equivalent comparison? That and the M2 are two cars I will be comparing as my next family car
Yes, thought the same too, 4-seater sports saloon vs 2-seater sports car. A 911 would make a better comparison if you have to have 4 seats. New Z4 will make a better comparison when that is outA 2 seater would be useless for a lot of my driving when I need to transport 2 or 3 with me
s m said:
SidewaysSi said:
Seems a bit of an odd comparison to me. I would have thought something like a 997.2S or something for similar money would have been an equivalent comparison? That and the M2 are two cars I will be comparing as my next family car
Yes, thought the same too, 4-seater sports saloon vs 2-seater sports car. A 911 would make a better comparison if you have to have 4 seats. New Z4 will make a better comparison when that is outA 2 seater would be useless for a lot of my driving when I need to transport 2 or 3 with me
But a 911 would be a good comparison - I am hoping to be able to use one for a fun family car (would need to but a roofbox). Will have a look at one this week to make sure I am not living in complete fantasy land
SidewaysSi said:
Same here. I don't see the M2 as a weekend hooner to be honest, more a family car with an edge. Likewise, the GT4 wasn't exciting enough to be a weekend car for me.
But a 911 would be a good comparison - I am hoping to be able to use one for a fun family car (would need to but a roofbox). Will have a look at one this week to make sure I am not living in complete fantasy land
The cover pic for this story reminds me of the Autocar video of the ancestorsBut a 911 would be a good comparison - I am hoping to be able to use one for a fun family car (would need to but a roofbox). Will have a look at one this week to make sure I am not living in complete fantasy land
1M vs Cayman R
https://youtu.be/wB5UDi2pYwE
"Of course, the big news is the introduction of the M3/M4 S55 engine, replacing the more prosaic N55 used before. And it is more pleasant to listen to"
What a whopper, clearly fallen for the "not a real M engine b
ks"!
Nobody thinks the S55 sounds better than the N55.
The trouble with you journalists only driving cars for a few miles, is that you don't have to either live with them, or pay for them.
Some of us live in the real world and make real world choices, don't believe everything you read!
What a whopper, clearly fallen for the "not a real M engine b
ks"!Nobody thinks the S55 sounds better than the N55.
The trouble with you journalists only driving cars for a few miles, is that you don't have to either live with them, or pay for them.
Some of us live in the real world and make real world choices, don't believe everything you read!
homerdog said:
"Of course, the big news is the introduction of the M3/M4 S55 engine, replacing the more prosaic N55 used before. And it is more pleasant to listen to"
What a whopper, clearly fallen for the "not a real M engine bks"!
Nobody thinks the S55 sounds better than the N55.
The trouble with you journalists only driving cars for a few miles, is that you don't have to either live with them, or pay for them.
Some of us live in the real world and make real world choices, don't believe everything you read!
Both the S and N55 engines sound manufactured as f#ck. And I say that as someone who has taken the M2 for a long test drive and one of my mates just got an M2 Comp. I love the M2 in any guise however, but your confrontational attitude towards auto journos is utterly uselessWhat a whopper, clearly fallen for the "not a real M engine b
ks"!Nobody thinks the S55 sounds better than the N55.
The trouble with you journalists only driving cars for a few miles, is that you don't have to either live with them, or pay for them.
Some of us live in the real world and make real world choices, don't believe everything you read!
BlackPrince said:
Both the S and N55 engines sound manufactured as f#ck. And I say that as someone who has taken the M2 for a long test drive and one of my mates just got an M2 Comp. I love the M2 in any guise however, but your confrontational attitude towards auto journos is utterly useless
If you're talking utterly useless... "manufactured" - as are all engines, wtf does that mean? 
Great article. Having reviewed my GT4 recently on CarPool I’m glad to see that the ageing GT4’s talents still remain relevant. Not really a fair comparison. No doubt the M2 would be my choice for a daily compact 4-seater performance vehicle. Went out in my friend’s Gt3 991 gen2 recently with the Sharwerks bypass. It was indescribably brilliant. MUST have one. Made the GT4 seem like one of the cars that kids crawl around in at the driving course at Legoland. Just shows what happens when you compare apples with oranges!
Honeywell said:
A Toyota GT86 or a Mazda MX5 are both more fun more of the time on most British roads and if you don’t measure your willy by the proxy of your sports car you can save an absolute fortune.
Just sayin’
Couldn’t agree more. Trying to enjoy 400 bhp on a great B road drive will either scare you silly, end in tears or result in a ban. Give me a good old school jap motor with 160 bhp any day of the week than these two penis extensions. Well said mate. Will always result in a flaming on here with all the Rodney’s and Nigel’s who need the “badge”. Just sleep safe in the knowledge others who read these nonsense articles feel the same.Just sayin’
Far more fun in a gt86.
fuchsiasteve said:
Honeywell said:
A Toyota GT86 or a Mazda MX5 are both more fun more of the time on most British roads and if you don’t measure your willy by the proxy of your sports car you can save an absolute fortune.
Just sayin’
Couldn’t agree more. Trying to enjoy 400 bhp on a great B road drive will either scare you silly, end in tears or result in a ban. Give me a good old school jap motor with 160 bhp any day of the week than these two penis extensions. Well said mate. Will always result in a flaming on here with all the Rodney’s and Nigel’s who need the “badge”. Just sleep safe in the knowledge others who read these nonsense articles feel the same.Just sayin’
Far more fun in a gt86.
homerdog said:
BlackPrince said:
Both the S and N55 engines sound manufactured as f#ck. And I say that as someone who has taken the M2 for a long test drive and one of my mates just got an M2 Comp. I love the M2 in any guise however, but your confrontational attitude towards auto journos is utterly useless
If you're talking utterly useless... "manufactured" - as are all engines, wtf does that mean? M135i and upwards does it. As does many VW Etc.
It's been disabled in my car. I haven't heard one with the system enabled. But I'm told it sounds much better without.
fuchsiasteve said:
Honeywell said:
A Toyota GT86 or a Mazda MX5 are both more fun more of the time on most British roads and if you don’t measure your willy by the proxy of your sports car you can save an absolute fortune.
Just sayin’
Couldn’t agree more. Trying to enjoy 400 bhp on a great B road drive will either scare you silly, end in tears or result in a ban. Give me a good old school jap motor with 160 bhp any day of the week than these two penis extensions. Well said mate. Will always result in a flaming on here with all the Rodney’s and Nigel’s who need the “badge”. Just sleep safe in the knowledge others who read these nonsense articles feel the same.Just sayin’
Far more fun in a gt86.
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