RE: BMW M2 Competition vs. Porsche Cayman GT4
Discussion
sinbad666 said:
This may explain the difference between the S55 in the M2C and M3/4
https://www.bluesparkautomotive.com/projects/m4c-m...
Good god, over 500 bhp in a 2 Series BMW.https://www.bluesparkautomotive.com/projects/m4c-m...
j_s14a said:
BlackPrince said:
Some of us like acceleration. So no, as splendid as those two cars are
Considering you will spend more time accelerating in either the Toyota or Mazda, you've defeated your own argument. I think there is a level of acceleration that is enough to make a car interesting and not frustrating, go above it and it feels unsatisfying and go much lower in terms of time it is degrees of overkill.
Its like Beer, 3.5 percent tends to be insipid, but 8 percent or higher it is overpowering, there is a sweet spot to be found in-between.
We get so fixated on straight line performance but it has got a bit daft, I think a car should be a package rather than something average with a party piece of accelerating like an F18 in a hurry.
Straight line performance has been nailed, years of ties dropping has culminated in things like a Tesla Model S doing 60 in just over 2 seconds, fantastic party piece, but its a barge that accelerates fast, would it be huge fun beyond that, no, even if its lovely.
I prefer my sons Fiesta ST as a drivers car to my M135i, it is just so much more of a balanced package, with enough straight line go to keep you interested, the BMW is great but feels quite inert in comparison.
Time we stopped fixating on numbers so much and concentrated on the less tangible things.
Its like Beer, 3.5 percent tends to be insipid, but 8 percent or higher it is overpowering, there is a sweet spot to be found in-between.
We get so fixated on straight line performance but it has got a bit daft, I think a car should be a package rather than something average with a party piece of accelerating like an F18 in a hurry.
Straight line performance has been nailed, years of ties dropping has culminated in things like a Tesla Model S doing 60 in just over 2 seconds, fantastic party piece, but its a barge that accelerates fast, would it be huge fun beyond that, no, even if its lovely.
I prefer my sons Fiesta ST as a drivers car to my M135i, it is just so much more of a balanced package, with enough straight line go to keep you interested, the BMW is great but feels quite inert in comparison.
Time we stopped fixating on numbers so much and concentrated on the less tangible things.
xjay1337 said:
What he is saying is that many cars are artificially enhanced - play audio through the speakers etc.
M135i and upwards does it. As does many VW Etc.
It's been disabled in my car. I haven't heard one with the system enabled. But I'm told it sounds much better without.
Got any pictures of the wife? M135i and upwards does it. As does many VW Etc.
It's been disabled in my car. I haven't heard one with the system enabled. But I'm told it sounds much better without.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.c...
See all these high power cars are really too much for the road unless you are a professional race driver and know how to control such power. GT86 far more fun and being able to fully open them on a twisty B road is where the real fun is.
See all these high power cars are really too much for the road unless you are a professional race driver and know how to control such power. GT86 far more fun and being able to fully open them on a twisty B road is where the real fun is.
fuchsiasteve said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.c...
See all these high power cars are really too much for the road unless you are a professional race driver and know how to control such power. GT86 far more fun and being able to fully open them on a twisty B road is where the real fun is.
Nice trolling post that. I've driven a 560bhp car and I'm still alive, bizarrely!See all these high power cars are really too much for the road unless you are a professional race driver and know how to control such power. GT86 far more fun and being able to fully open them on a twisty B road is where the real fun is.
fuchsiasteve said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.c...
See all these high power cars are really too much for the road unless you are a professional race driver and know how to control such power. GT86 far more fun and being able to fully open them on a twisty B road is where the real fun is.
So you know the exact circumstances/cause(s) of the Lambo crash?See all these high power cars are really too much for the road unless you are a professional race driver and know how to control such power. GT86 far more fun and being able to fully open them on a twisty B road is where the real fun is.
fuchsiasteve said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.c...
See all these high power cars are really too much for the road unless you are a professional race driver and know how to control such power. GT86 far more fun and being able to fully open them on a twisty B road is where the real fun is.
The sooner that everyone realises that different people find different things fun the better. No one can say that everyone will find one car more fun than another, because whats fun is a matter of opinion and isnt fact.See all these high power cars are really too much for the road unless you are a professional race driver and know how to control such power. GT86 far more fun and being able to fully open them on a twisty B road is where the real fun is.
Escort3500 said:
fuchsiasteve said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.c...
See all these high power cars are really too much for the road unless you are a professional race driver and know how to control such power. GT86 far more fun and being able to fully open them on a twisty B road is where the real fun is.
So you know the exact circumstances/cause(s) of the Lambo crash?See all these high power cars are really too much for the road unless you are a professional race driver and know how to control such power. GT86 far more fun and being able to fully open them on a twisty B road is where the real fun is.
I don't think it is pure speed that is necessarily the issue with the really quick stuff but that they need to operate deep into 3 figures which can compromise their ability to engage and excite on road in the UK where many (of us) do the majority of our driving. Added to modern legislation and manufacturers chasing lap times and speed, can result in cars that are really quite boring.
Some of the problems I find (though not to be purely levelled at faster stuff):
- poor (steering) feel
- too much grip
- a chassis that is "too capable" on road
- too tall gear ratios
- poor throttle response
- too eager DSC systems, some of which can't be turned off
- a feeling of quite a synthetic driving experience
These can affect all cars of course, but it becomes very frustrating when so called (expensive) "driver's cars" get saddled with these foibles.
Of course these may not be issues to many people and as less and less people experience older cars, they increasingly become things that even enthusiasts are not bothered about.
Some of the problems I find (though not to be purely levelled at faster stuff):
- poor (steering) feel
- too much grip
- a chassis that is "too capable" on road
- too tall gear ratios
- poor throttle response
- too eager DSC systems, some of which can't be turned off
- a feeling of quite a synthetic driving experience
These can affect all cars of course, but it becomes very frustrating when so called (expensive) "driver's cars" get saddled with these foibles.
Of course these may not be issues to many people and as less and less people experience older cars, they increasingly become things that even enthusiasts are not bothered about.
DoubleD said:
The sooner that everyone realises that different people find different things fun the better. No one can say that everyone will find one car more fun than another, because whats fun is a matter of opinion and isnt fact.
I can see two types of fun, on the one extreme we have the extremely thrilling, exhilarating cars where one gets on the throttle and catches your breath, it flies down the road and you get out bewildered from the ride. All the while just scratching the surface of the full dynamic repertoire of the car. The other extreme is that car that fits the accomplished driver like a glove and is so low powered that one can basically drive it on the edge all the time, all the time giving massive feedback to the drivers satisfaction as he/she dissects a great road, getting into a flow. The engine is maybe not very powerfull, but it is pleasing in its use.For me the ideal is something that does the latter without using all of the engine, and which can still thrill when you have a clear straight with a few faint bends, and be just pinned to your seat..
Edited by Onehp on Wednesday 26th December 11:50
fuchsiasteve said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.liverpoolecho.c...
See all these high power cars are really too much for the road unless you are a professional race driver and know how to control such power. GT86 far more fun and being able to fully open them on a twisty B road is where the real fun is.
I find the real fun is on track. Limiting factors on the open road will always be line of sight, traffic, licence conservation. Those two cars are brilliant on track despite their obvious road car origins, plus you can get to said track in comfort, particularly Spa/Ring trip. See all these high power cars are really too much for the road unless you are a professional race driver and know how to control such power. GT86 far more fun and being able to fully open them on a twisty B road is where the real fun is.
Let’s be honest here, were “Pistonheads”, some of us at least…
I can “get off” driving a shopping cart, or anything on two to four wheels; of any size, power configuration etc.; hitting apexes and all lol…
That being said….
Lower weight, Direct Analog Control and Tactility > Power, Outright Speed and Acceleration (IMHO)
Cars are getting faster, but the roads aren't…
In faster cars you can barely squeeze the throttle for a few seconds before you run out of road and have to brake; also you are going 80-90 within the first 2 to 3 gears… Fun, but very fleeting….
Dodge Hellcat Manual highlights this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDb2fEUi1lE
For an “Expert” opinion, we turn it over to mister Chris Monkey Harris...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPh90yNX-mY
Take it for what its worth, keeping in mind that everyone has individual preferences. Some cars just “feel” better to some for personal and emotional reasons and leave it at that, regardless of price or spec.
Just don’t fall for marketing and PR bs into thinking that a car is better or more “fun”; because it comes from a particular ‘brand’ or is faster, more expensive, and has a bigger engine, rubber, and specs.
I can “get off” driving a shopping cart, or anything on two to four wheels; of any size, power configuration etc.; hitting apexes and all lol…
That being said….
Lower weight, Direct Analog Control and Tactility > Power, Outright Speed and Acceleration (IMHO)
Cars are getting faster, but the roads aren't…
In faster cars you can barely squeeze the throttle for a few seconds before you run out of road and have to brake; also you are going 80-90 within the first 2 to 3 gears… Fun, but very fleeting….
Dodge Hellcat Manual highlights this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDb2fEUi1lE
For an “Expert” opinion, we turn it over to mister Chris Monkey Harris...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPh90yNX-mY
Take it for what its worth, keeping in mind that everyone has individual preferences. Some cars just “feel” better to some for personal and emotional reasons and leave it at that, regardless of price or spec.
Just don’t fall for marketing and PR bs into thinking that a car is better or more “fun”; because it comes from a particular ‘brand’ or is faster, more expensive, and has a bigger engine, rubber, and specs.
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