RE: Dodge Viper (SRI/SRII): PH Used Buying Guide

RE: Dodge Viper (SRI/SRII): PH Used Buying Guide

Author
Discussion

macky17

2,210 posts

188 months

Sunday 6th January 2019
quotequote all
Don Roque said:
I don't think the Viper was made for people as boring as you.
hehebeer

macky17

2,210 posts

188 months

Sunday 6th January 2019
quotequote all
selym said:
macky17 said:
I own a 370bhp golf R and it’s wonderful... and about 20% as much fun as a proper raw performance car like a viper (hence why I have a tvr as well). Seriously, have you ever driven anything rwd, manual, analogue? Have you ever properly driven anything?
An honest appraisal amongst all the hyperbole commonly used to describe the R.
Thanks. Only fair though, as we are defending slighted machinery, to point out that the R really is an excellent daily - the best I’ve owned in 27 years and many, many cars... but no, it ain’t life affirming.

fatboy18

18,930 posts

210 months

Sunday 6th January 2019
quotequote all
urquattroGus said:
SidewaysSi said:
big_rob_sydney said:
For me, I'd be looking at whatever alternatives £30k can buy. And the answer is, a lot. The performance benchmarks are easily hit by a lot of other cars in standard format, never mind modified. Any forced induction car can be made to hit them incredibly easily.

The only thing that appeals to me about this is the noise, and even that, I'd have to worry about upsetting my neighbours, and attracting the attention of the boys in blue, along with potentially having it stolen.

Big pass on this, and would prefer something a bit more discreet.
Couldn't agree more. Why buy this when you can get a Golf R for less? Faster, more economical and seats 5.

And less chance of having it stolen too.
roflrofl Pistonheads forum summed up in two quotes!!!!!!
Have another rofl How sad

selym

9,539 posts

170 months

Sunday 6th January 2019
quotequote all
macky17 said:
selym said:
macky17 said:
I own a 370bhp golf R and it’s wonderful... and about 20% as much fun as a proper raw performance car like a viper (hence why I have a tvr as well). Seriously, have you ever driven anything rwd, manual, analogue? Have you ever properly driven anything?
An honest appraisal amongst all the hyperbole commonly used to describe the R.
Thanks. Only fair though, as we are defending slighted machinery, to point out that the R really is an excellent daily - the best I’ve owned in 27 years and many, many cars... but no, it ain’t life affirming.
I don't doubt either sentiment; I'd donate blood for an R but hack off a testicle for a Viper.

big_rob_sydney

3,394 posts

193 months

Sunday 6th January 2019
quotequote all
Don Roque said:
big_rob_sydney said:
For me, I'd be looking at whatever alternatives £30k can buy. And the answer is, a lot. The performance benchmarks are easily hit by a lot of other cars in standard format, never mind modified. Any forced induction car can be made to hit them incredibly easily.

The only thing that appeals to me about this is the noise, and even that, I'd have to worry about upsetting my neighbours, and attracting the attention of the boys in blue, along with potentially having it stolen.

Big pass on this, and would prefer something a bit more discreet.
I don't think the Viper was made for people as boring as you.
I guess you must be saying that for £30k, the ONLY car you can buy is this then? No choice allowed according to you?

For what its worth, I've previously owned a VK SS Group A Commodore for 7 years, modified it, and drag raced it. I also ran a 22B as a daily, also for 7 years, and modified that too. And lastly I ran a BMW s1000rr, which I also modified. That was good for quarter miles in the 9.x bracket.

Not that I need to explain myself to you, but to take the attitude that if I don't like this car I must be boring, seems to me, to be you being a bit of a dick.

fatboy18

18,930 posts

210 months

Sunday 6th January 2019
quotequote all
So lets throw some more history out there on the car.

Back in the late 1980s Chrysler Owned Lamborghini, One of the technicians called Dick Winkles was working on engine development with Lamborghini.

The very 1st Viper was fitted with a V8 (purley to get the car moving).
Once the car was approved to build the Viper team started looking at what engine could be produced for it.

This Historic Video says it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGDdBFbikUQ&t=...

Chestrockwell

2,624 posts

156 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
Had a look on autotrader, low to high and stumbled across this, that’s a lot of kit for 35k

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...


drpep

1,758 posts

167 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
400hp. 8 litres. Think about that.

50hp per litre.

At this time, BMW was putting out 90-100hp/litre.

Aside from the specific output, there's definitely some earthy appeal to something like this, though not my cuppa. Some lucky somebody will enjoy it however!

stradman

81 posts

194 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
Oh why not. I'll just leave this here gratuitously..


dinkel

26,886 posts

257 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
427James said:
The other thing is that the Viper feels very fast due to the torque. It idles at 400rpm and will snap your head back from those revs. Just gently lift the clutch to get the car rolling and then nail the throttle. It never gets old. Its also far closer to a TVR than a Z06 is in terms of feel (I have had both). The Viper is less capable than a Z06 in most ways, but is still the one you will pick up the keys to when you have them side by side in your garage.

Oomph on wheels.

rodericb

6,660 posts

125 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
drpep said:
400hp. 8 litres. Think about that.

50hp per litre.

At this time, BMW was putting out 90-100hp/litre.

Aside from the specific output, there's definitely some earthy appeal to something like this, though not my cuppa. Some lucky somebody will enjoy it however!
You could have said something about truck motors while you were at it.

Anway: https://www.autotrader.com/car-video/i-took-my-dod...

J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
drpep said:
400hp. 8 litres. Think about that.

50hp per litre.

At this time, BMW was putting out 90-100hp/litre.

Aside from the specific output, there's definitely some earthy appeal to something like this, though not my cuppa. Some lucky somebody will enjoy it however!
I dont get the fascination with power per litre, i am sure by the nineties even Americans knew how to get big power per litre but, they didnt have to, they just threw capacity it at as fuel is cheap and their roads are big, the country is big so the cars were.

The engine power and torque is matched to the duties the vehicle it is fitted to will be doing, in America they fit large V8's, or at least they used to, with low power outputs by our interpreatation, for example and "Interceptor" spec Ford Crown Victoria had a V8 Ford engine with 260 ish bhp and around 300 lb/ft of torque at 4000 rpm.

That is what the car needed to accelerate adequately, remember its not a sports car. It was tractable, fairly refined, very simple hugely reliable and would do huge mileages, it could sit idling for hours without complaint and run in all climates.

They could bore it out, put higher spec components on and make 400 bhp or more but they dont need to, a turbo 4 cyl would do it but itsnt wouldnt be as nice to drive and it adds complexity.

The Viper had 400 bhp in its earliest form from an eight litre V10, a Mercedes A45 AMG can make 400 bhp from 2 litres which is great but that is a high powered hatchback, not a sports/muscle car.

The Americans know a bit about getting power from engines, a lot of the tuner world is based there, they have decades of drag racing experience, Nascar, Monster Trucks and build god knows what, but they like cubic inches.


Back in 1999 400 bhp was massive power, a hot hatch had 120 if you were lucky, so it has to be judge in that context, my BMW nearly has as much power and will accelerate as quickly but I know which one would be more of an occasion.

Plus, later ones were a bit more powerful,




Denorth

559 posts

170 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
Don't think it has been mentioned, but looks like the photos in the article are not of SR-I, but rather SR-II

I know - small details, nothing more...

Jon_S_Rally

3,385 posts

87 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
These are childish and idiotic in every way. I want one now as much as I did when I was a kid. The embodiment of American silliness. I'd feel a bit of a prat driving one around where I live but, at the same time, would be giggling like an idiot every time I touched the throttle, or looked at the thing. Still a hugely appealing car for me.

macky17

2,210 posts

188 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
fatboy18 said:
So lets throw some more history out there on the car.

Back in the late 1980s Chrysler Owned Lamborghini, One of the technicians called Dick Winkles was working on engine development with Lamborghini.

The very 1st Viper was fitted with a V8 (purley to get the car moving).
Once the car was approved to build the Viper team started looking at what engine could be produced for it.

This Historic Video says it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGDdBFbikUQ&t=...
Dick Winkles hehebiggrinrofl

getmecoat

fatboy18

18,930 posts

210 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all




Did you know the All aluminium V10 Block was designed with the help of Lamborghini?

Lamborghini had experience in aluminium water jacket design within the blocks.
Then once the cars went into production ALL the Engine blocks from 1992 -2017 were sand cast in the midlands in England. the Blocks were then sent to Dodge to be machine finished.

As the Various Gens developed some parts shared platforms with other cars. Gen 3/4 front suspension was also shared on Merc's SLS Bet a lot of you did not know that!

Brakes on the Gen 1 and Gen II cars were also shared with other cars as the Viper used Brembo Brakes.
The Single piston Rear brake caliper was the same as used on the Lotus elise!
Front 4 piston caliper was shared with Aston Martin, Ford, Renault and Peugeot.

So you can nip down to your euro parts motor factor and pick up replacement brake pads easy.
These cars are also nice to work on.
A stock replacement clutch will cost you around £200.00 Yes Just £200.00!

So it's a Supercar but affordable to run if you keep the engine relatively stock.

One thing that is problematic is the talk of tuning and Superchargers. If you want to see your money disappear fast then go ahead, also depending on how much boost you want, engine internals on later gen II cars may be needed.
There are hardly any people in the UK who know how to unlock and tune the pcms on these cars. Many say they can, but the reality is they have not worked on these engines because there are very few vipers in the UK
Then there is also the cost of fuel in the UK compared to the USA.

So if you want to actually use the car and tour around, air filter and exhaust is all you need to tweek.
Mark
President
Viper Owners Association UK

Lewis Kingston

240 posts

76 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
fatboy18 said:
Stunning car, Mark – and thank you for the extra details! smile

fatboy18

18,930 posts

210 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
Denorth said:
Don't think it has been mentioned, but looks like the photos in the article are not of SR-I, but rather SR-II

I know - small details, nothing more...
Well Spotted, You are quite right.
Even the engine image is a Later Gen II engine.

Gen 1 engines are easy to spot as the Alternator is front centre of the engine between the throttle bodys.
Gen 1 engines also came with dual throttle cables, (the Gen II engine came with 1 cable and a balance bar between throttle bodys)

The alternator on a Gen II engine is on the front RHS.

Gen I cars came with a 3 spoke wheel
Here's a nice pic of a Gen 1






And if your wondering what a Supercharger looks like on these things



Edited by fatboy18 on Monday 7th January 19:32

urquattroGus

1,845 posts

189 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
macky17 said:
fatboy18 said:
So lets throw some more history out there on the car.

Back in the late 1980s Chrysler Owned Lamborghini, One of the technicians called Dick Winkles was working on engine development with Lamborghini.

The very 1st Viper was fitted with a V8 (purley to get the car moving).
Once the car was approved to build the Viper team started looking at what engine could be produced for it.

This Historic Video says it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGDdBFbikUQ&t=...
Dick Winkles hehebiggrinrofl

getmecoat
Not just you, my thoughts exactly rofl

Was the chassis by this chap?:




stradman

81 posts

194 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
fatboy18 said:






So if you want to actually use the car and tour around, air filter and exhaust is all you need to tweek.
Mark
President
Viper Owners Association UK
Unless you really want to go to town and go full out with the Ultimate 9.0Liter Xtreme Mark!.....yikesyikes