RE: Jaguar Land Rover facing "perfect storm"
Discussion
I would be interested to hear from anyone in the know about the current state of modularity in JLR? I believe that the only platform sharing between Jag and LR is the F Pace and Velar? Nearly 20 years on since the 2 companies were merged through Ford, it does not appear that much has changed since BL days.
My own experience was that although Jag started out using Ford carry-over items, it invariably redesigned a very large proportion of the c/o parts, therefore losing the economies of scale and incurring heavy tooling bill for each program. The sales forecasts were seemingly inflated to make the numbers work, but when actual volumes materialised, it was clear the bottom line was in real trouble.
I often think Ford gets a real bum rap from that era because it was the JLR management that developed and put forward their proposals and Ford largely approved and funded them, despite their reservations.
My own experience was that although Jag started out using Ford carry-over items, it invariably redesigned a very large proportion of the c/o parts, therefore losing the economies of scale and incurring heavy tooling bill for each program. The sales forecasts were seemingly inflated to make the numbers work, but when actual volumes materialised, it was clear the bottom line was in real trouble.
I often think Ford gets a real bum rap from that era because it was the JLR management that developed and put forward their proposals and Ford largely approved and funded them, despite their reservations.
Jellinek said:
I would be interested to hear from anyone in the know about the current state of modularity in JLR? I believe that the only platform sharing between Jag and LR is the F Pace and Velar? Nearly 20 years on since the 2 companies were merged through Ford, it does not appear that much has changed since BL days.
My own experience was that although Jag started out using Ford carry-over items, it invariably redesigned a very large proportion of the c/o parts, therefore losing the economies of scale and incurring heavy tooling bill for each program. The sales forecasts were seemingly inflated to make the numbers work, but when actual volumes materialised, it was clear the bottom line was in real trouble.
I often think Ford gets a real bum rap from that era because it was the JLR management that developed and put forward their proposals and Ford largely approved and funded them, despite their reservations.
E-Pace is built on a modified Evoque / Disco Sport platform.My own experience was that although Jag started out using Ford carry-over items, it invariably redesigned a very large proportion of the c/o parts, therefore losing the economies of scale and incurring heavy tooling bill for each program. The sales forecasts were seemingly inflated to make the numbers work, but when actual volumes materialised, it was clear the bottom line was in real trouble.
I often think Ford gets a real bum rap from that era because it was the JLR management that developed and put forward their proposals and Ford largely approved and funded them, despite their reservations.
troika said:
jason61c said:
Surely part of the problem is that they just make cars of well below average quality?
They have loads of build quality and reliability issues, poor residuals as a result, why would people want to buy them?
This. My fathers 2017 DS is currently at LR with its engine out. A few days before it went in, the whole cabin fan / air system stopped working. It’s a complete pile of overpriced rubbish. They have loads of build quality and reliability issues, poor residuals as a result, why would people want to buy them?
unrepentant said:
Jellinek said:
I would be interested to hear from anyone in the know about the current state of modularity in JLR? I believe that the only platform sharing between Jag and LR is the F Pace and Velar? Nearly 20 years on since the 2 companies were merged through Ford, it does not appear that much has changed since BL days.
My own experience was that although Jag started out using Ford carry-over items, it invariably redesigned a very large proportion of the c/o parts, therefore losing the economies of scale and incurring heavy tooling bill for each program. The sales forecasts were seemingly inflated to make the numbers work, but when actual volumes materialised, it was clear the bottom line was in real trouble.
I often think Ford gets a real bum rap from that era because it was the JLR management that developed and put forward their proposals and Ford largely approved and funded them, despite their reservations.
E-Pace is built on a modified Evoque / Disco Sport platform.My own experience was that although Jag started out using Ford carry-over items, it invariably redesigned a very large proportion of the c/o parts, therefore losing the economies of scale and incurring heavy tooling bill for each program. The sales forecasts were seemingly inflated to make the numbers work, but when actual volumes materialised, it was clear the bottom line was in real trouble.
I often think Ford gets a real bum rap from that era because it was the JLR management that developed and put forward their proposals and Ford largely approved and funded them, despite their reservations.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
But then even a Mk7 Golf is fundamentally still a Mk5 which was in parts a Mk4 which was basically a Mk3 with a different body, which was a modified Mk2 platform which was a Mk1.... And a Ferrari 488 can more than likely trace most of it's BIW design back to the 348.Of course platforms are based on what came before. Why would a company completely re-invite something that works? Unless you're completely shifting to a new concept (like a shift to aluminium or a brand new sports car), why would you spend a tonne of money trying to do the same thing slightly differently. I mean if you're going to get picky about JLR stuff, and F Type is basically a chopped about XK which also morphed into the XJ.
The reality is, yes, of course parts of the E Pace floorplan share concept with the original Ford platform, but that clearly doesn't make it a Mondeo. It's not like JLR buy rusty Mondeo's, chop the body off the top and weld an E Pace onto it. It's a bizarre bit of PH pedantry that people get worked up about it. Who really cares? If a car rides and handles well, has good refinement and looks good, why would it matter if the floorplan was shared with a Renault 4? What difference does it actually make?!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think more companies got more value out of that EUCD platform than even the VAG platform they use to make countless almost identical but differently branded vehicles. Didn't it originally come out of the Volvo P2 platform, but with stamped suspension parts instead of expensive cast ones, and similar cost savings.Jellinek said:
I would be interested to hear from anyone in the know about the current state of modularity in JLR? I believe that the only platform sharing between Jag and LR is the F Pace and Velar? Nearly 20 years on since the 2 companies were merged through Ford, it does not appear that much has changed since BL days.
My own experience was that although Jag started out using Ford carry-over items, it invariably redesigned a very large proportion of the c/o parts, therefore losing the economies of scale and incurring heavy tooling bill for each program. The sales forecasts were seemingly inflated to make the numbers work, but when actual volumes materialised, it was clear the bottom line was in real trouble.
I often think Ford gets a real bum rap from that era because it was the JLR management that developed and put forward their proposals and Ford largely approved and funded them, despite their reservations.
JLR have five platforms in production today:My own experience was that although Jag started out using Ford carry-over items, it invariably redesigned a very large proportion of the c/o parts, therefore losing the economies of scale and incurring heavy tooling bill for each program. The sales forecasts were seemingly inflated to make the numbers work, but when actual volumes materialised, it was clear the bottom line was in real trouble.
I often think Ford gets a real bum rap from that era because it was the JLR management that developed and put forward their proposals and Ford largely approved and funded them, despite their reservations.
D6a - F-Type
D7a - XE, XF, F-PACE, Velar
D7e - I-PACE
D7u - Discovery, Range Rover, Range Rover Sport
D8 - Discovery Sport, Evoque, E-PACE
Their next gen platform will be called MLA (Modular Longitudinal Architecture), which will carry five models at first.
adamcot said:
JLR have five platforms in production today:
D6a - F-Type
D7a - XE, XF, F-PACE, Velar
D7e - I-PACE
D7u - Discovery, Range Rover, Range Rover Sport
D8 - Discovery Sport, Evoque, E-PACE
Their next gen platform will be called MLA (Modular Longitudinal Architecture), which will carry five models at first.
What about the XJ? D6a - F-Type
D7a - XE, XF, F-PACE, Velar
D7e - I-PACE
D7u - Discovery, Range Rover, Range Rover Sport
D8 - Discovery Sport, Evoque, E-PACE
Their next gen platform will be called MLA (Modular Longitudinal Architecture), which will carry five models at first.
dme123 said:
adamcot said:
JLR have five platforms in production today:
D6a - F-Type
D7a - XE, XF, F-PACE, Velar
D7e - I-PACE
D7u - Discovery, Range Rover, Range Rover Sport
D8 - Discovery Sport, Evoque, E-PACE
Their next gen platform will be called MLA (Modular Longitudinal Architecture), which will carry five models at first.
What about the XJ? D6a - F-Type
D7a - XE, XF, F-PACE, Velar
D7e - I-PACE
D7u - Discovery, Range Rover, Range Rover Sport
D8 - Discovery Sport, Evoque, E-PACE
Their next gen platform will be called MLA (Modular Longitudinal Architecture), which will carry five models at first.
RacerMike said:
Is F-Type not D2a too then? XJ was off XK which is also F-Type.
The X350 XJ was out in 2002/3, before the 2006 X150 XK. I can see how they'd share components/subframes etc but it seems more likely that X150 was derived from the X350 (as was the current X351 XJ). There is a page about it here
https://www.revolvy.com/page/Jaguar-Land-Rover-car...
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