Running without coolant ?

Running without coolant ?

Author
Discussion

J4CKO

Original Poster:

41,273 posts

199 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
A colleague is having a problem with coolant loss on his R53 Mini Cooper, its being sorted next week and he is topping it up daily until then.

Made me wonder what would happen if he didnt top it up, have seen a few cars completely devoid of coolant that were then sorted and lived to tell the tale, one being a taxi that my dad worked on, a Pinto engined 1.6 Cortina that came in as having no heater which was because it had dumped all its coolant yet had been in frequent, extended use without any.

Ok, an old 70 bhp Iron block Pinto being used at low speeds in winter is different from modern 200 bhp plus alloy blocked turbo (or in this case, supercharged stuff). I know the Ford Ecoboost doesnt take very well to losing coolant, I guess its high output, a turbo and low volume of the block means it cant dissipate the heat and overwhelms the materials.

I was thinking that with his Mini, if he kept the speed, acceleration down and didnt sit for ages in traffic, if its around zero C outside at the moment it would probably be ok, the ambient air and oil proving enough cooling, the engine is still lubricated ?


What are your experiences of zero coolant situations ?




Ultrafunkula

996 posts

104 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
1) Ford Fiesta XR2, drove from Reading to Rugby and back with leaking expansion tank. HGF diagnosed the following day...

2) Rover 218iS, driven from Reading to Beaulieu mid summer without the coolant cap on, no issues. Had to keep topping it up with bottled water on the way back though...

JakeT

5,406 posts

119 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
With no coolant an engine like that will be dead sharpish. The oil won't be able to cool the engine at all enough, no matter how cold. If need be they should just top up with water daily, but never run with no coolant. That's a surefire way to need a new engine.

PGN

213 posts

213 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
I remember reading that the 1.6 Zetec-SE engine, which was developed by Yamaha for Ford and fitted to the original Focus, was able to run without coolant in limp home mode. To do this it selectively shutting down cylinders to control the temperature. I don't know if doing this had any adverse effects on the engine.

Codswallop

5,250 posts

193 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
My experience of low coolant was on a MK3 Mr2 roadster.

Radiator split and the car dumped a load of coolant. First sign of trouble was a engine check light, followed within 5 minutes by the temperature guage heading into the red.

Clearly, a mid engine car in London traffic can't last long without coolant...

Car was fine after a new radiator as I switched it off before the temp gauge went into the red.


Roger Irrelevant

2,898 posts

112 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
I bksed a famously 'unbreakable' k11 Micra 1.0 engine PDQ by running without coolant, in the belief that it would probably be OK as it was winter and I'd drive the few miles home at a snail's pace. So I wouldn't risk it on anything I remotely cared about.

J4CKO

Original Poster:

41,273 posts

199 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
He was panicking as it was pretty low and took a fair bit to top up, I reckon it will be fine if he takes it easy, tops it up and keeps an eye on it.




Swampy1982

3,305 posts

110 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
He was panicking as it was pretty low and took a fair bit to top up, I reckon it will be fine if he takes it easy, tops it up and keeps an eye on it.
I wouldn't want to be the one offering that advice if it did go wrong, especially if I wasn't confident enough I had to ask a forums opinion...

Krikkit

26,500 posts

180 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
Swampy1982 said:
J4CKO said:
He was panicking as it was pretty low and took a fair bit to top up, I reckon it will be fine if he takes it easy, tops it up and keeps an eye on it.
I wouldn't want to be the one offering that advice if it did go wrong, especially if I wasn't confident enough I had to ask a forums opinion...
If he has an alternative then I'd park it, sounds like it's using a lot.

Otherwise just make sure it's topped up before every journey I'm sure it'll be fine.

IanCress

4,409 posts

165 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
The rubber thermostat housing perished on my Mk1 Focus 2.0, and started leaking coolant very quickly. The first I knew about it was when I couldn't get any heat out of the heater.

The engine was still running fine but on opening the bonnet it 'smelled' very hot. I imagine if i'd carried on much longer things would start to melt.

eldar

21,614 posts

195 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
Ford ecoboost engines don't last long with insufficient cooling.

Zetec-S

5,832 posts

92 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
PGN said:
I remember reading that the 1.6 Zetec-SE engine, which was developed by Yamaha for Ford and fitted to the original Focus, was able to run without coolant in limp home mode. To do this it selectively shutting down cylinders to control the temperature. I don't know if doing this had any adverse effects on the engine.
Ours went on for another 80k + miles with no problems smile

(although we didn't run it very far on limp mode, probably 5-10 miles)

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
My stepfather ran a garage before he retired, and I'd often turn my hand as a fitter for some extra cash. We had a chap turn up one day in a Toyota Carina E that had dumped it's coolant. It was running on two cylinders, absolutely scorching hot, and then stopped. The bloke had just driven it for about 3-4 miles after it dumped the coolant because he didn't care about it and couldn't be arsed sitting at the side of the road.

We all assumed it was stone dead and left it to cool down. Next day we changed the hose that had split and filled it up with water, and it was fine. Went on to be the garage beater for another 12 months until it overheated again and this time it was toast. Cast iron block but aluminium head, so I'm amazed the head didn't warp and break the head gasket.

On a modern car (or any non cockroach old car) you have as little as a few seconds to switch it on once the coolant has gone or it's going to be stuffed. Don't fk around with cars with coolant system problems unless you don't care if they die.

deltashad

6,731 posts

196 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
My ex drove the integrale with no water. I knew it had a leak and told her to keep an eye on the water level temp gauge. She didn't. HGF.

rallycross

12,742 posts

236 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
it will soon expire with no water in it but its probably got between 6 and 10 litres in there so a bit of topping up is no problem, but if all the water runs out a big hole in the rad it wont get far before boiling up regardless how slow you go it will soon get melting hot with zero water, probably make it fine with a couple of litres in the system though.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
I had an Audi A6 1.8T with a dodgy coolant level sensor for months until I changed the header tank which fixed it. Driving home on the motorway one day the low coolant light came on again so I assumed the sensor had gone again....

Next thing the coolant temperature went up for a while before falling back down again which I later realised was because all the coolant had fallen out. I carried on driving to get home as I had no breakdown cover which was definitely the wrong move.

As I got closer to home the car started to try and stall as I put the clutch in, presumably as the engine was on the cusp of siezing. I managed to get off the motorway, pulled over and the car was steaming and had that horrible fked smell.

When it cooled down it started OK so we filled it with coolant and took it to my house. I couldn't fix the leak so I sold it on eBay and a Polish man came to look at it and bought it, leaving it on my drive to be collected.

I moved it on the day it was due to be picked up and the engine was making a loud tapping noise. A transporter collected it that night and I felt bad for a few days but never heard anything more about the car.

So basically it ruined the engine.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 17th January 19:09

njw1

2,053 posts

110 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
Zetec-S said:
PGN said:
I remember reading that the 1.6 Zetec-SE engine, which was developed by Yamaha for Ford and fitted to the original Focus, was able to run without coolant in limp home mode. To do this it selectively shutting down cylinders to control the temperature. I don't know if doing this had any adverse effects on the engine.
Ours went on for another 80k + miles with no problems smile

(although we didn't run it very far on limp mode, probably 5-10 miles)


That's interesting, when my missus had a mk6 Fiesta she got home one day and said she'd seen some water under the car before she left and would I check it, when I checked the engine was red hot and the header tank bone dry due to water pump bearing failure as it turned out, how far she'd driven it without coolant I don't know and I fully expected it to be dead but once cooled down it started and ran perfectly.

Piersman2

6,596 posts

198 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
njw1 said:
Zetec-S said:
PGN said:
I remember reading that the 1.6 Zetec-SE engine, which was developed by Yamaha for Ford and fitted to the original Focus, was able to run without coolant in limp home mode. To do this it selectively shutting down cylinders to control the temperature. I don't know if doing this had any adverse effects on the engine.
Ours went on for another 80k + miles with no problems smile

(although we didn't run it very far on limp mode, probably 5-10 miles)


That's interesting, when my missus had a mk6 Fiesta she got home one day and said she'd seen some water under the car before she left and would I check it, when I checked the engine was red hot and the header tank bone dry due to water pump bearing failure as it turned out, how far she'd driven it without coolant I don't know and I fully expected it to be dead but once cooled down it started and ran perfectly.
You just reminded me of my Range Rover. Had been losing a little coolant over the previous few weeks, thought I would keep an eye on things as there was no obvious leaks. Then had a 30 miles trip down the M4 to a 'do' and half way there I started to hear squealing noises from the engine. Got off at Slough and once we were amongst the local roads there was steam everywhere, lapping out from under the bonnet when sitting at traffic lights. Kept going as the 'do' was just around the corner and by the time we got there the car was making lots of horrible noises from the engine and losing power, with steam still pouring out and the dash lighting up with lots of warnings. Thought I had properly buggered it.

AA man turned up and showed me the water pump, the pulley was barely attached to the pump anymore, the bearing had utterly collapsed, it must have been seizing on the way down the M4 and then started pissing coolant out as soon as we got the local roads.

Got towed home and replaced the pump the following day - thankfully no adverse impact other than the lingering smell of evaporating coolant for a few thousand miles. smile


mike9009

6,917 posts

242 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
I have had two coolant issues over the years

1. R55 Cooper S with a leak from the thermostat housing. I would drive 15 miles to work, top up, then return home and top-up (from memory about 1.5L - could be wrong though....). Did this for a week with no apparent damage before repairing.
2. Mk 1 Eunos. Water pump failure. It would overheat rapidly so after a couple of miles it got very hot. Eventually took to a garage downhill from my house about a mile away. No lasting damage. But I suspect if I did my 15 mile commute it would have been toast.



Mike

donkmeister

7,995 posts

99 months

Thursday 17th January 2019
quotequote all
MG TF160 (the K-series had an HGF issue, who knew? smile )

Strictly speaking not coolant loss, it was right there in the sump... But, I spotted it within a few miles of it occurring and had it recovered to Brown and Gammon. I have heard of others driving HGF'd MGs further and warping the block and/or head.

Modern engines often have less coolant than old school engines so I wouldn't risk it... Keep it to the old iron-blocked pintos! smile

Just think of the repair costs if it doesn't pay off... Vs a few taxis/trains or a hire car.