RE: Manual, rear-drive BMW M3 'Pure' rumoured
Discussion
E65Ross said:
Onehp said:
janesmith1950 said:
We can all agree, then, that a manual handbrake is not a necessity on a road car.
But we are talking about M3's now are we, not about VW Sharans? If we're on about road only exclusively and 100% law abiding car use, we don't need M3's either... SidewaysSi said:
E65Ross said:
Onehp said:
janesmith1950 said:
We can all agree, then, that a manual handbrake is not a necessity on a road car.
But we are talking about M3's now are we, not about VW Sharans? If we're on about road only exclusively and 100% law abiding car use, we don't need M3's either... Onehp said:
Julian.
Of course one could settle with powersliding out of corners. That works too. But pulling through the whole bend is even more satisfying and can be just as 'safe' or even safer. If you block the rear wheels and you notice grip is a lower then expected, you shed more speed with the brake pedal or abort alltogether. If grip is higher you let go and roll in a bit deeper. Nuances of grip inbetween you choose your angle and actual path accordingly so you can seamlessly transition to a nice and even power-trough the bend, without any additional large changes in throttle position and other transitions in rolling or skidding grip.
It's not magic, it's practice and the good sense to abort if you're only the least bit unsure. And the good sense to only do this on appropriate places and occasions of course.
Well explained - excellent. Probably not my thing - I’m not even sure the M4 has a parking brake strong enough to block the axle but for sure an EPB would ruin your fun here and so I can see why you don’t like them!Of course one could settle with powersliding out of corners. That works too. But pulling through the whole bend is even more satisfying and can be just as 'safe' or even safer. If you block the rear wheels and you notice grip is a lower then expected, you shed more speed with the brake pedal or abort alltogether. If grip is higher you let go and roll in a bit deeper. Nuances of grip inbetween you choose your angle and actual path accordingly so you can seamlessly transition to a nice and even power-trough the bend, without any additional large changes in throttle position and other transitions in rolling or skidding grip.
It's not magic, it's practice and the good sense to abort if you're only the least bit unsure. And the good sense to only do this on appropriate places and occasions of course.
I don’t like them either much but mainly because I appreciate the simple safety built in to a manual cable brake that doesn’t rely on computers or power in any way.
Actually I stripped my z4 down the other day to paint the brake calipers so in case anyone reading has not seen any pictures of the business end of EPB and is even remotely interested here we are:
So in that image you can see the back of the caliper has a mounting that takes a black plastic motor (not shown) - that simply screws the pads in and out independently of the hydraulic circuit.
Here is another one of them back on the car from underneath - you can see the motor now, fitted to the back of the caliper assembly:
From the front they just look normal: (and yes on such weedy little brakes I had zero temptation to paint them red or yellow!! Haha)
Edited by Julian Thompson on Sunday 3rd February 11:07
nickfrog said:
Onehp said:
the throttle isn't exactly a precision instrument to gauge grip levels with either.
Particularly as it will only give you a measure of available traction, not lateral grip. Mind you, the hand brake is probably the worst possible tool for that job.
Good to see some opinion turn in understanding of the manual handbrake.
Perhaps I am an exception for actively using the handbrake on my cars, but don't think I'm one in a million either...
I fully respect that even M3 can do the school run and should work there up to a point (my wife has complained about the handbrake too once iirc), however I still have a hard time to understand that the driving requirements on the school run supersede those of the car put to its full handling potential... Or I have misunderstood the raison d'etre of the M3...
Perhaps I am an exception for actively using the handbrake on my cars, but don't think I'm one in a million either...
I fully respect that even M3 can do the school run and should work there up to a point (my wife has complained about the handbrake too once iirc), however I still have a hard time to understand that the driving requirements on the school run supersede those of the car put to its full handling potential... Or I have misunderstood the raison d'etre of the M3...
Edited by Onehp on Monday 4th February 15:38
Onehp said:
Perhaps I am an exception for actively using the handbrake on my cars, but don't think I'm one in a million either...
I wouldn't actually be surprised if you are. At least in the UK, I'm not sure 1 in a million would regularly use the handbrake whilst driving to help with cornering...Edited by Onehp on Monday 4th February 15:38
E65Ross said:
I wouldn't actually be surprised if you are. At least in the UK, I'm not sure 1 in a million would regularly use the handbrake whilst driving to help with cornering...
Perhaps that is the problem, in the UK... I'm more thinking among potential or actual M3 owners. M3 being a car being sold in many countries, not just the UK...
Giving it a rest now...
Onehp said:
E65Ross said:
I wouldn't actually be surprised if you are. At least in the UK, I'm not sure 1 in a million would regularly use the handbrake whilst driving to help with cornering...
Perhaps that is the problem, in the UK... I'm more thinking among potential or actual M3 owners. M3 being a car being sold in many countries, not just the UK...
Giving it a rest now...
Well it looks like a disguised 3 series, not too much to get excited about there, though I do like the obligatory quad exhaust exit arrangement. This "Pure" version with the manual 'box certainly sounds interesting, seems like a nice idea to differentiate the manual car as a separate variant.
Ares said:
Do you think worldwide M3 sales would drop if they went to an electronic parking brake?
Do you think worldwide sales of the car you drive would drop if they went to a manual parking brake? Would it have stopped you buying it?I'm guessing probably not, but that doesn't stop you having a preference.
Tired said:
Ares said:
Do you think worldwide M3 sales would drop if they went to an electronic parking brake?
Do you think worldwide sales of the car you drive would drop if they went to a manual parking brake? Would it have stopped you buying it?I'm guessing probably not, but that doesn't stop you having a preference.
And no, I doubt it. But it would have brought negatives comments on cabin design. Would it have stopped me buying it, possibly. Mrs Ares hated the M3 because it had a manual parking brake and divorce is expensive.
But if automotive manufacturers didn't embrace new technology, we'd still be turning a handle to start out cars.
Ares said:
I'll take that as a no then
And no, I doubt it. But it would have brought negatives comments on cabin design. Would it have stopped me buying it, possibly. Mrs Ares hated the M3 because it had a manual parking brake and divorce is expensive.
But if automotive manufacturers didn't embrace new technology, we'd still be turning a handle to start out cars.
You do realise that 'new technology' coming is self-driving cars? Which is fine for the majority of drivers, but rather negates the reason of existance of the M3 Pure (drivers edition)? No? And no, I doubt it. But it would have brought negatives comments on cabin design. Would it have stopped me buying it, possibly. Mrs Ares hated the M3 because it had a manual parking brake and divorce is expensive.
But if automotive manufacturers didn't embrace new technology, we'd still be turning a handle to start out cars.
Turning a handle to start has nothing to do with the driving experience. Turbo engines, electric power steering, automatic gearboxes, 4 wheel drive, electronic parking brakes, driver assist systems etc., they do matter and influence the d r i v i n g experience.
Please tell us why you need to have an M3, couldn't you, and the dear wife, settle for something more 'convenient' with similar performance? There is plenty to choose from as most cars are embracing 'new technology'...
jjr1 said:
I have an M4 Competition and nothing would make me want it in a manual version. I had a Gt86 and loved that in manual and it really suited the car but an M4 is so much bigger and more powerful that the thought of swapping cogs in it manually makes me feel ill.
In fact i can't think of any big powerful car i would want in manual form.
Manual is for small sports cars like an Elise or Gt86 etc.
I'm the complete opposite, a big heavy rear wheel drive car with a beefy manual gear box is heaven for me. A Tremec T56 in a Monaro is quite a challenge.....Dinosaurs still live, thank god.In fact i can't think of any big powerful car i would want in manual form.
Manual is for small sports cars like an Elise or Gt86 etc.
Article said:
The sharpest of them all could actually be the Pure, because it'll forgo all-wheel drive - the same adjustable system used in the M5 - for a rear-only setup, although with less driven rubber and fewer horses from the twin-turbocharged inline-six beneath the bonnet, it'll inevitably be the slowest of the lot.
It'll be interesting to see how the sales stack of of the M3 "ultimate driving machine" (sounds like the pure, here) vs the M3 variant with simply the biggest numbers.I'm going to hazard a guess at the latter
SidewaysSi said:
To be fair, an M3 hasn't really been a proper driver's car for some time. I assume the average buyer would cross shop with an Audi, Evoque etc.
I felt this with my E92 M3, great fun if you were acting like a clown(lighting the rears up/sideways fun). But for the rest of the time it actually felt like a comfortable GT...and it weighs as much as a 5 series so that probably explains why. I guess the Jekyll and Hyde nature is appealing to most though(the GT bit spoilt it for me). Fetchez la vache said:
Article said:
The sharpest of them all could actually be the Pure, because it'll forgo all-wheel drive - the same adjustable system used in the M5 - for a rear-only setup, although with less driven rubber and fewer horses from the twin-turbocharged inline-six beneath the bonnet, it'll inevitably be the slowest of the lot.
It'll be interesting to see how the sales stack of of the M3 "ultimate driving machine" (sounds like the pure, here) vs the M3 variant with simply the biggest numbers.I'm going to hazard a guess at the latter
Onehp said:
Ares said:
I'll take that as a no then
And no, I doubt it. But it would have brought negatives comments on cabin design. Would it have stopped me buying it, possibly. Mrs Ares hated the M3 because it had a manual parking brake and divorce is expensive.
But if automotive manufacturers didn't embrace new technology, we'd still be turning a handle to start out cars.
You do realise that 'new technology' coming is self-driving cars? Which is fine for the majority of drivers, but rather negates the reason of existance of the M3 Pure (drivers edition)? No? And no, I doubt it. But it would have brought negatives comments on cabin design. Would it have stopped me buying it, possibly. Mrs Ares hated the M3 because it had a manual parking brake and divorce is expensive.
But if automotive manufacturers didn't embrace new technology, we'd still be turning a handle to start out cars.
Turning a handle to start has nothing to do with the driving experience. Turbo engines, electric power steering, automatic gearboxes, 4 wheel drive, electronic parking brakes, driver assist systems etc., they do matter and influence the d r i v i n g experience.
Please tell us why you need to have an M3, couldn't you, and the dear wife, settle for something more 'convenient' with similar performance? There is plenty to choose from as most cars are embracing 'new technology'...
And as we have established, p a r k i n g brakes have nothing to do with d r i v i n g unless you think you're Ari Vatanen or Hanu Mikkula
And I didn't settle for anything. I got a car that out M3'd the M3...and had an electronic parking brake (as every competing car does
)cerb4.5lee said:
SidewaysSi said:
To be fair, an M3 hasn't really been a proper driver's car for some time. I assume the average buyer would cross shop with an Audi, Evoque etc.
I felt this with my E92 M3, great fun if you were acting like a clown(lighting the rears up/sideways fun). But for the rest of the time it actually felt like a comfortable GT...and it weighs as much as a 5 series so that probably explains why. I guess the Jekyll and Hyde nature is appealing to most though(the GT bit spoilt it for me). Saying that I do think they are a good base for a family car/daily - add some KWs, a CAE or similar and some Alcons etc then it could be an interesting car. Not sure if you can solve the steering on the new cars or if stuck with the standard set up though. But it all adds up - think I would want to drop over £10k ish on mods on an M3 to get it up to scratch.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff