RE: Manual, rear-drive BMW M3 'Pure' rumoured

[DSC OFF]

Ares said:

No. OEM P-Zero Corsas.

I'm sure I remember the Evo head to head test vs the f80 m3 competition stating that the alfas tyres were stickier and had a wear rate of 3 x the bmw's, which attributed to the difference in lap time around the Bedford autodrome

Interestingly around Anglesey in the Drive tribe video the same bmw was quicker

the m4 cs set a time of 7.38 around the ring riding on cup 2's with the alfa's being 7.39 leads me to think the quad was running trick tyres

[Ares]

DSC OFF said:

Ares said:

No. OEM P-Zero Corsas.

I'm sure I remember the Evo head to head test vs the f80 m3 competition stating that the alfas tyres were stickier and had a wear rate of 3 x the bmw's, which attributed to the difference in lap time around the Bedford autodrome

Interestingly around Anglesey in the Drive tribe video the same bmw was quicker

the m4 cs set a time of 7.38 around the ring riding on cup 2's with the alfa's being 7.39 leads me to think the quad was running trick tyres

The OEM tyres are pretty trick. They add to the higher power, greater PWR, better steering and other factors to make the car (feel) noticeably quicker.

[Onehp]

Ares said:

and aside from our regular 1980's Scandinavian rally wannabe, I see no driver using the parking brake to drive.

How many scandinavian driving enthusiasts frequent PH? Easy to dismiss me, but I can assure you there are many more people like me in a region where there is snow 3-5 months per year and during summer there are many tens of thousand of miles of gravel roads. Then in a manual 'pure' drivers car, it is a loss not to be able to brake the rear axle only when moving...

No need to reply

[Wills2]

Onehp said:

How many scandinavian driving enthusiasts frequent PH? Easy to dismiss me, but I can assure you there are many more people like me in a region where there is snow 3-5 months per year and during summer there are many tens of thousand of miles of gravel roads. Then in a manual 'pure' drivers car, it is a loss not to be able to brake the rear axle only when moving...

No need to reply

That's great but M aren't going to make a new 75k M3 to cater for that market are they?

[Onehp]

Wills2 said:

That's great but M aren't going to make a new 75k M3 to cater for that market are they?

Just bemoaning the loss of the manual handbrake on a car targeted at pure rwd driving. Thats all.

How it could be, on e.g. the GT86 the designers did the trouble of putting on a good manual handbrake, clearly purposes for use also when not stationary...

[Wills2]

Onehp said:

Wills2 said:

That's great but M aren't going to make a new 75k M3 to cater for that market are they?

Just bemoaning the loss of the manual handbrake on a car targeted at pure rwd driving. Thats all.

How it could be, on e.g. the GT86 the designers did the trouble of putting on a good manual handbrake, clearly purposes for use also when not stationary...

Yeah I bet it's great fun on those Scandinavian roads in the winter but they will target the market in order to sell cars. Still plenty of cars that go well and offer a manual handbrake around, just not many new ones I guess.

[Gooly]

BMW haven't made a handbrake that's been able to lock the rear wheels in my living memory. Trust me, I've tried my fair share...

Frankly if you need one to get the back end out when you have 400+ bhp and an LSD then it's not the handbrake thats the problem...

[Ares]

Onehp said:

Wills2 said:

That's great but M aren't going to make a new 75k M3 to cater for that market are they?

Just bemoaning the loss of the manual handbrake on a car targeted at pure rwd driving. Thats all.

How it could be, on e.g. the GT86 the designers did the trouble of putting on a good manual handbrake, clearly purposes for use also when not stationary...

Kind of more 'CBA' to engineer an auto one argument though!!

As I say, 'pure driving' and 'manual handbrake' are mutually exclusive for 99.99999% of potential purchasers.

[Onehp]

Ares said:

Kind of more 'CBA' to engineer an auto one argument though!!

As I say, 'pure driving' and 'manual handbrake' are mutually exclusive for 99.99999% of potential purchasers.

I got that part. I disagree. I think you got that too. And I already explained why a manual handbrake is nice to have.
What I did learn here is that (a few) brits still have issues as not seeing themselves as the centre of the fking whole world...

[E65Ross]

Onehp said:

Ares said:

Kind of more 'CBA' to engineer an auto one argument though!!

As I say, 'pure driving' and 'manual handbrake' are mutually exclusive for 99.99999% of potential purchasers.

I got that part. I disagree. I think you got that too. And I already explained why a manual handbrake is nice to have.
What I did learn here is that (a few) brits still have issues as not seeing themselves as the centre of the fking whole world...

The same with Scandinavians then, who think a manufacturer should invest millions of £ in developing something just for them?

[Ares]

Onehp said:

What I did learn here is that (a few) brits still have issues as not seeing themselves as the centre of the fking whole world...

That'll be the people obsessing about EPB?

[Ares]

E65Ross said:

The same with Scandinavians then, who think a manufacturer should invest millions of £ in developing something just for them?

And should stifle future technological development because 0.0000000001% of people don't want it. That is why nothing ever gets done.

[Clivey]

Some of the arguments in this thread are laughable. - I prefer a manual gearbox and handbrake in certain types of car. If you think that makes me a "luddite", congratulations; you're a philistine. If you want a car to do everything for you, go and buy a Tesla...just don't advocate the removal of choice for others and then cry when it's your turn to have your options curtailed.

In many kinds of car, a manual box and handbrake do add to the driving experience. Unfortunately annual mileage dictates that we have a 320d and not an M3 but the manual box and handbrake are a pleasure to use all the time, not just for mucking about on slippy surfaces.

[E65Ross]

Clivey said:

Some of the arguments in this thread are laughable. - I prefer a manual gearbox and handbrake in certain types of car. If you think that makes me a "luddite", congratulations; you're a philistine. If you want a car to do everything for you, go and buy a Tesla...just don't advocate the removal of choice for others and then cry when it's your turn to have your options curtailed.

In many kinds of car, a manual box and handbrake do add to the driving experience. Unfortunately annual mileage dictates that we have a 320d and not an M3 but the manual box and handbrake are a pleasure to use all the time, not just for mucking about on slippy surfaces.

I TOTALLY get the manual gearbox thing, but I can't see what's wrong with a manual gearbox and an electric parking brake? Or does it give you driving pleasure lifting it up when you come to a stop, or when you're about to set off?

[Mike335i]

Having used auto boxes and auto brakes a lot recently, I get the argument for having a manual gearbox totally and it is what I would choose, but auto handbrakes are neither better nor worse in my view.

I think I prefer a mechanical level as they is what I am used to, but I would not dream of using it whilst in motion. I'm also not sold on the auto hold handbrakes that leave the brake lights on constantly too.

[anonymous-user]

An article about a circa 500bhp sports saloon and the resultant thread discussion focuses on the fking handbrake.

[Clivey]

E65Ross said:

I TOTALLY get the manual gearbox thing, but I can't see what's wrong with a manual gearbox and an electric parking brake? Or does it give you driving pleasure lifting it up when you come to a stop, or when you're about to set off?

I live in a hilly area; at junctions and whilst manoeuvring, every car I've driven with an electric parking brake has been repeatedly caught-out. On a hill start, some of them release with enough of a jolt to make you wince. The only way to stop that is to disengage the parking brake before setting off and attempt to use the hill hold systems but they're inconsistent as well. You can just be a lot smoother with a traditional handbrake.

As for cars like the XF, what really annoyed me is that if you engage the parking brake and take your foot off the brake pedal with the stop / start active, it freaks-out and restart the engine...so the only way you can use stop / start at traffic lights is to sit with your foot on the brake for the full cycle.

I own several cars, including an old banger that I use as a van, for shopping and plan to use it for banger rallies...you might be surprised at just how often the handbrake is used whilst the car's in motion.

[Ares]

janesmith1950 said:

An article about a circa 500bhp sports saloon and the resultant thread discussion focuses on the fking handbrake.

It's a BMW..... ergo, some people have to whinge about something.