Why can nobody drive in the snow

[Car-Matt]

300bhp/ton said:

Car-Matt said:

There's a clue in the name - ALL SEASON

Not even WINTER Tyres are SNOW specific

Yet summer tyres will offer better performance for more days a year than all seasons will. Especially if you have a sporty car or are an enthusiastic driver.

Which despite enthusiasm on here is apprx 4% of the population who would be optioning performance tryes

I don't really get your point about more days of the year......any stats to back this up.....remember we are talking all seasons, i'd say that it was the opposite myself.

People who wish to drive enthusiastically etc are a very very small minority

[Car-Matt]

300bhp/ton said:

Tired said:

Have you read this somewhere? have there been tests carried out?

Or is it your opinion?

Observation mostly.

But according to Google the MEAN temp for the UK it 8.5-11 degrees C.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mean+average+tempe...

We might not get a heat wave every year, but we do have a summer. And generally get warmish weather, especially considering our latitude.


This chart clearly shows the average temp is only low for 4 months of the year and in reality only two months of these are significantly colder from the years average.




To put that into some actual numbers.

The coldest parts of the UK might get 83 days a year where non summer tyres might offer benefits. Most of the UK is probably nearer to 55 days. And for the South/South East its probably more like 27 days a year.

I'm not saying it isn't a good idea to run winter or all seasons, but in a pure number sense approach, you are planning and catering for the minority of driving use/conditions in the UK.

I'd say that Conti 4 Seasons offer 95% of summer performance and 95% of winter performance so my inference would be that the all seasons would offer more performance more of the time unless we have virtually no cold/wet weather



Some anecdata from me is that I actually run cars with winters, summers and all seasons so I can make a fairly informed comment about them rather than a quick google and some forum theory

[Debaser]

I can’t believe nobody has posted that picture of a 1 series with snow chains on the front.

[Onehp]

I am in Sweden.

It's all about the tyres for hardware. That said:

- All seasons have come a long way. Barely worse in the dry, and almost as good in the snow as a dedicated winter/snow tyre. If you're not after ultimate performance in the dry (at which point you would need two tyre set if you drive year round), you should check them out!

- "But summers are better 99% of the time" if often hear. But if you don't stay at home, that remaining 1% has a very high likelihood of you crashing, the 99% isn't very relevant, see also next point.

- Performance is not equal. In dry grip is 100, then wet grip is like 80. Snow is like 20 and ice is like 5. A bad summer tyre in summer doesn't mean you will slither uncontrollably of a road no matter what you do. A really bad one will still be bad in the rain, but you could actually adapt to those conditions. If there is no grip and no control, there is no adaptation possible. I tend to choose my winter tyres for the worst conditions I will meet, not the best (then I put on my summer tyres ). If it is worse in the rain, it actually means performance is more even in shifting conditions... nobody mentioned that to you before? It's all about avoiding surprises!

As for this:

Terminator X said:

I have 4WD so was of course blasting the car through the snow whilst all the peasants minced along
TX.

I have this:
https://youtu.be/atayHQYqA3g

4wd ain't better than the tyres it is on, as has been mentioned already but can't be repeated enough.


For reference, here is a little vid of me enjoying my former rwd on a little detour from a regular A to B trip on an unscouted road. I'm on studded winter tyres, would be impossible to do it on anything but the best tyres and lots of grip feeling (steering, accelerator and brakes). I do miss that car....
https://youtu.be/xh6uJ3wYQtc

[motco]

Those roadside trees don't take prisoners! Thanks for the links.

[Graveworm]

Car-Matt said:

A good set of 4 seasons will be way better than most summer non premiums and are pretty comparable to all but the best premium summers these days with the added advantage of being better in the colder temps. No brainer unless you drive at 10/10ths on the road all the time in which case you've got issues anyway

Except the testing shows they cost more for less.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2018-AZ-Summe...
Braking distance or grip wet or dry is not just about 10/10ths it's a good thing for any driver if something goes wrong. As is avoiding aquaplaning.

Edited by Graveworm on Wednesday 23 January 17:51

[Baldchap]

340600 said:

Car-Matt said:

Balmoral said:

Beats me why all season are not the default tyre here in the UK rather than summers.

100%

New cars should come with all seasons as standard with summer performance tyres being an option. Soon it would become normal

I'd love some but I can't for the life of me find any in a 255/40/18 (I don't fancy buying a whole new set of wheels either).

First link on Google has 2 pages of all seasons in that size. Fill your boots:

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyres/all-season/225-40-r...

[Onehp]

Graveworm said:

Car-Matt said:

A good set of 4 seasons will be way better than most summer non premiums and are pretty comparable to all but the best premium summers these days with the added advantage of being better in the colder temps. No brainer unless you drive at 10/10ths on the road all the time in which case you've got issues anyway

Except the testing shows they cost more for less.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2018-AZ-Summe...
Braking distance or grip wet or dry is not just about 10/10ths it's a good thing for any driver if something goes wrong. As is avoiding aquaplaning.

Can't have it all but if anthing, this tests shows how good all seasons are. Yes they are worse in the dry, but not massively so (staples show relative differences, not absolute as when one would plot them from zero) and it is in the dry you can most easily adapt your driving a bit. They are no worse than a worn budget tyre. As the all seasons wear, they will get better in the dry...
In the wet they are surprisingly strong. Except for aquaplaning, but they are no worse than a supersport or the even more focussed summer tyres.

And of course snow performance wasn't tested and there the difference would be massive, roughly twice as long braking distances for the summer tyres... if not more, see also above linked vid keeping in mind a AS isn't fully as good as the winter tyre tested, but bloody close (they are compared somewhere on tyrereviews also iirc, if not I read lots of scandinavian tests that don't show there).

Of course there is no perfect tyre, and a good all season's broad range of qualities is reflected in price. But if the compromise works for you...

Edited by Onehp on Wednesday 23 January 18:57

[Skyedriver]

J4CKO said:

They lock, then release maybe thats what he means ?

if all 4 wheels are on ice and they lock, the vehicle thinks it's stopped...ABS doesn't release, driver foot presses harder and harder on the pedal and brakes stay locked.
Watched a large van sliding merrily down the road all 4 locked a few years ago...

[anonymous-user]

Skyedriver said:

if all 4 wheels are on ice and they lock, the vehicle thinks it's stopped...ABS doesn't release, driver foot presses harder and harder on the pedal and brakes stay locked.
Watched a large van sliding merrily down the road all 4 locked a few years ago...

Exactly. ABS isn’t great when you have zero grip. I don’t think the average motorist knows the main benefit of it.

[SBDJ]

Schmed said:

Surprised you're not out on your bike Yonex in these conditions causing yet more congestion.

I was actually quite glad that I was out on my motorbike, was much faster than the car

/runs....

Edited by SBDJ on Wednesday 23 January 20:51

[Onehp]

Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro (400+ studs) are amazing on ice and snow for a mountainbike. Remember barreling down a road covered in ice into a town and all bystanders were holding their breath waiting for the accident that never came close to happening... And today a guy on an Africa Twin passed all cars at 70mph on the outer lane. Yes the motorway was icefree, but still to be out mid winter in Sweden in dense traffic with a motorcycle, is pretty hardcore/awesome/normal/stupid. Depending on tyres and skills...

[Leptons]

Schmed said:

Why can nobody drive in the snow ? Because in the UK they're all running on summer tyres...

Surprised you're not out on your bike Yonex in these conditions causing yet more congestion.

[Tomo1971]

Just like many of us blokes dont dare to ask for directions for fear of their masculinity been questioned, many believe that they are THE driving god and dont need to consider winter tyres or all seasons.

[rallycross]

Onehp said:

Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro (400+ studs) are amazing on ice and snow for a mountainbike. .

I have used studded tyres on UK roads (in Scotland) and its quite amazing the level of grip you get get even on snow compacted icy roads.

Sadly no longer legal to do this in the UK but we had our own stud gun and used to fit studs in winter, an AX GT with studded tyres on the front and standard michellins on the rear was so much fun.

[Mr Tidy]

300bhp/ton said:

Observation mostly.

The coldest parts of the UK might get 83 days a year where non summer tyres might offer benefits. Most of the UK is probably nearer to 55 days. And for the South/South East its probably more like 27 days a year.

I'm not saying it isn't a good idea to run winter or all seasons, but in a pure number sense approach, you are planning and catering for the minority of driving use/conditions in the UK.

It might only be 27 (or less) days a year where I live, but summers would be useless for those 27 days.

All Seasons or Winters would actually work fine for the other 338 or so, especially given the disinterest most people seem to have in what they are doing.

That lack of interest combined with bling wheels and tyres seems to be a large part of the problem!

I drove through plenty of snow in the early 80s in a MK2 Granada - but it had 185 x 14 tyres!

4 years ago I bought a BMW 325ti Sport that had 245 x 17 rears which would have been hopeless - but I bought a set of wheels with used 205 x 16 winters, although it didn't snow!

But last February I replaced it with an E91 325i that had 205 x 16 winters fitted - they worked a treat in the Beast from the East!

How hard is it to change the wheels twice a year if it keeps you mobile, and able to stay on the road?

[Paulm4]

kambites said:

People in the south of England are rubbish at driving in snow because it snows about once a decade down here. I dare say people who live in the highlands are decent enough at it.

Nope, they are clueless up here in the Highlands too, passed 2 separate vehicles getting recovered on my way to work yesterday and the A9 is always closed due to some type of snow incident!

I've noticed an up turn in people buying proper winter tyres though.

[Welshbeef]

yonex said:

Three years in North America, winters in Ukraine, Russia, Sweden. In the 80’s we still had a good amount of snow in the UK.
It’s not being superior, it’s paying attention to the conditions.

It’s vastly more specific winter/snow driving experience than nearly the entire U.K. population

No one is taught how to drive in winter conditions/snow. I’m not sure but I believe learned instructors cancel lessons when it’s snow/heavy snow removing the valuable experience to the learner.

[matchmaker]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That is a large part of the problem.

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

It’s vastly more specific winter/snow driving experience than nearly the entire U.K. population

No one is taught how to drive in winter conditions/snow. I’m not sure but I believe learned instructors cancel lessons when it’s snow/heavy snow removing the valuable experience to the learner.

It’s more basic than that. People don’t understand ABS, or what an LSD does, I’ve actually read on PH that people have never felt their ABS kicking in? It really just seems a lot of people don’t care about driving at all?