Why can nobody drive in the snow
Discussion
Baldchap said:
340600 said:
Car-Matt said:
Balmoral said:
Beats me why all season are not the default tyre here in the UK rather than summers.
100%New cars should come with all seasons as standard with summer performance tyres being an option. Soon it would become normal
https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyres/all-season/225-40-r...
I found that up in the peak district people are pretty used to snow and manage with minimal fuss, most people don't drive 4x4s either.
Down here in the west-mids, people are f**king idiots!
Last year, fresh snow I got stuck on a snowy hill because the car in front (old Fiesta) was doing 5mph and I didn't have the momentum to get me up and over (Mondeo), I was well pissed off, after finally getting moving I went back home and decided that no matter how well I can drive in the snow and no matter how good my tyres are, I cannot control the idiots around me.
Back in 2009, we had BIG snow, same thing again, people driving far too slowly and getting themselves stuck.
Tyres, people simply don't believe in the benefit of winter tyres, but not only this, many people always buy the cheapest tyres they possibly can, because the man a crapfit insisted that "all tyres are the same", whilst rubbing his hands together at the profit margin on fitting a £3.50 SuperHedgehog XL, and charging £45 for it.
Down here in the west-mids, people are f**king idiots!
Last year, fresh snow I got stuck on a snowy hill because the car in front (old Fiesta) was doing 5mph and I didn't have the momentum to get me up and over (Mondeo), I was well pissed off, after finally getting moving I went back home and decided that no matter how well I can drive in the snow and no matter how good my tyres are, I cannot control the idiots around me.
Back in 2009, we had BIG snow, same thing again, people driving far too slowly and getting themselves stuck.
Tyres, people simply don't believe in the benefit of winter tyres, but not only this, many people always buy the cheapest tyres they possibly can, because the man a crapfit insisted that "all tyres are the same", whilst rubbing his hands together at the profit margin on fitting a £3.50 SuperHedgehog XL, and charging £45 for it.
lyonspride said:
I found that up in the peak district people are pretty used to snow and manage with minimal fuss, most people don't drive 4x4s either.
Down here in the west-mids, people are f**king idiots!
Last year, fresh snow I got stuck on a snowy hill because the car in front (old Fiesta) was doing 5mph and I didn't have the momentum to get me up and over (Mondeo), I was well pissed off, after finally getting moving I went back home and decided that no matter how well I can drive in the snow and no matter how good my tyres are, I cannot control the idiots around me.
Back in 2009, we had BIG snow, same thing again, people driving far too slowly and getting themselves stuck.
Tyres, people simply don't believe in the benefit of winter tyres, but not only this, many people always buy the cheapest tyres they possibly can, because the man a crapfit insisted that "all tyres are the same", whilst rubbing his hands together at the profit margin on fitting a £3.50 SuperHedgehog XL, and charging £45 for it.
Why would I find myself tempted to a set of SuperHedgehog XLs? Down here in the west-mids, people are f**king idiots!
Last year, fresh snow I got stuck on a snowy hill because the car in front (old Fiesta) was doing 5mph and I didn't have the momentum to get me up and over (Mondeo), I was well pissed off, after finally getting moving I went back home and decided that no matter how well I can drive in the snow and no matter how good my tyres are, I cannot control the idiots around me.
Back in 2009, we had BIG snow, same thing again, people driving far too slowly and getting themselves stuck.
Tyres, people simply don't believe in the benefit of winter tyres, but not only this, many people always buy the cheapest tyres they possibly can, because the man a crapfit insisted that "all tyres are the same", whilst rubbing his hands together at the profit margin on fitting a £3.50 SuperHedgehog XL, and charging £45 for it.
In the same way as Linglong Winter Hero.
(I do have some sense, I went for Nokian WR D3
)It's probably down to people buying cars on PCP/Leasing them. It means they can't afford the £1000 on a set of winter tyres and new wheels for the three days a year it snows. Because everything is the fault of PCP these days. /PHOPINION
Personally, I think people can drive in the snow. The problem is that it only takes 1 person who can't to cause chaos, which means us competent folk get left looking like muppets. One bit of snow on a dual carriageway and a collective loss of confidence from all drivers turned a 45 minute commute into a 3 hour commute for me last year.
There's also an issue whereby people who haven't driven in snow get scared of driving in snow. Then when they do need to, they don't know what to do. My mates and I were encouraged to go out in the snow when we were learning so that we knew what to do.
That I now attempt a 4 wheel drift round the roundabout near my house when it's snowing is still practice. Honestly.....
Personally, I think people can drive in the snow. The problem is that it only takes 1 person who can't to cause chaos, which means us competent folk get left looking like muppets. One bit of snow on a dual carriageway and a collective loss of confidence from all drivers turned a 45 minute commute into a 3 hour commute for me last year.
There's also an issue whereby people who haven't driven in snow get scared of driving in snow. Then when they do need to, they don't know what to do. My mates and I were encouraged to go out in the snow when we were learning so that we knew what to do.
That I now attempt a 4 wheel drift round the roundabout near my house when it's snowing is still practice. Honestly.....
Mr Tidy said:
It might only be 27 (or less) days a year where I live, but summers would be useless for those 27 days.
All Seasons or Winters would actually work fine for the other 338 or so, especially given the disinterest most people seem to have in what they are doing.
Your profile says Berkshire....All Seasons or Winters would actually work fine for the other 338 or so, especially given the disinterest most people seem to have in what they are doing.
I'm not sure you can hand on heart really claim that for 27 days a year you cannot drive on summer tyres.... I'd say it is probably more like 2 days a year or sometimes none.
300bhp/ton said:
Onehp said:
4wd ain't better than the tyres it is on,
On equal tyres 4wd will be massively superior in slippery conditions. Anyone claiming otherwise simply isn't versed in 4wd's.Balmoral said:
Better traction to get going but no more grip or advantage once on the move.
Which is why I give 4x4s a wide berth, bit of snow and they instantly want to do 20mph more than they normally would, with some talentless marketing manager tit behind the wheel of a 3 tonne vehicle, I certainly don't want to get dragged into that outcome............ Funny though because the same driver will always drive around a 2inch deep puddle when we've had a bit of rain..Tits in 4x4s, another reason I'd rather stay at home when it snows.
I was having a discussion with a neighbour about traction and grip not being the same thing. Put a fwd car, a rwd car, and a 4wd car on a tiltable plinth and tilt it until they slide off. Is the 4wd car going to stay on for longer? Of course not, they'll all slide off at the same time.
Limpet said:
245 section Pilot SuperSports, an auto box and RWD are not a good combo for snow 
Indeed.That's why I ran winters on my DCT 135i.
Even with 225 section Nokian winters on the front and 255 section Conti winters on the rear, 6+ inches of snow/ice weren't any problem for me back in 2013, when I spent 20 mins helping push and coax a fellow working in his Audi TT with Goodyear F1's try and get out the small incline exit from the works car park late after everyone else had left when the blizzard started. He was cursing madly, blaming Audi 4wd being useless, and I said, its yer tyres mate.
Once out he asked me what car I had and when I told him kindly said he walk back into the car park to help me get mine out. I'll be OK I said, I've got winter tyres on, which he seemed to ignore, and insisted on coming back with me.
He was completely speechless when I said get in, instead of having to push, and I just drove straight out, and back to his car to drop him off with only the merest of initial wheelspin, and no understeer around the off camber turn out of the car park to drop him off at his TT
lyonspride said:
Ok, so I can see how 4 driven wheels have a better chance of gaining traction than two, but how does 4x4 help with stopping on a slippery surface? The last time I looked, my car had brakes on all 4 wheels......
This has been done a lot on PH in the past 6 months or so. But essentially using engine braking will generally reduce the risk of wheel lockup/induce ABS in slippery conditions. This will work in 2wd cars too, but obviously with 4wd, engine braking is acting on 4 wheels and to better effect.This massively aids in slowing and general control in slippery conditions. And is a basic technique of off road driving (which is very similar as much off road is also low traction). 4wd can also aid in cornering, as if driven correctly you can alter the yaw angle of the car when cornering and then make use of the 4wd traction and braking ability described above. Overall on equal tyres 4wd will give you far more control at your disposal over 2wd.
In terms of emergency braking 4wd can help here as well but with some caveats. In the ops post you'll note they said they saw cars with locked wheels, despite all cars having ABS these days. A poster later on said they had also seen the same, but clarified to say the front wheels where locked and the rears rotating slowing.
This is due to the brake bias. Road cars run upto 70% front brake bias, because braking on normal dry roads creates a large downwards and forwards weight transfer onto the front wheels (nose dive). If the brake bias was 50:50 the rears would lock up way too easily, the brake bias allows more braking effort to be applied to the front wheels without locking the rears.
In the snow or on slippery conditions you just don't get the same weight transfer, so 70% front bias means the fronts will lock up early and the rears really won't be doing much to slow you down, as the ABS will have kicked in on them.
4wd with a lockable centre diff or 50:50 locked drive split (such as most pickups) will mean that when in 4wd the front and rear props are locked together. So when you brake with the foot brake, it will slow the front and rear axle the same, giving you nearer to 50:50 brake bias. In the snow this will help you to stop slightly quicker and in a shorter distance. As all 4 wheels will lock up at the same point, as opposed to just the fronts locking up.
Balmoral said:
Better traction to get going but no more grip or advantage once on the move.
Quite the opposite I'm afraid. Not saying all owners of 4wd's make use of the extra abilities or maybe don't understand them. But most 4wd systems will always be superior to 2wd systems on slippery surfaces. This is why 4wd rally cars are vastly faster than 2wd ones. They have an advantage all the time, braking and cornering included. If it was just to get going, then the 4wd rally car would only be quicker out of the starting gate. But they aren't, they are quicker everywhere on loose or slippery surfaces.Otispunkmeyer said:
I've watched all the videos, but what did it for me was being in a taxi, in Innsbruck, in winter. Ice and snow all over the place. Taxi driver was doing his best Tommi Makinen impression in his Ford Galaxy. A few little skittish moments aside, the amount of grip he seemed to have was impressive.
Similar experience in Alpe d'Huez a few years ago, getting a taxi up the hill in some kind of fast Audi 4x4 with a lot of snow on the ground. Eye opening.lyonspride said:
I found that up in the peak district people are pretty used to snow and manage with minimal fuss, most people don't drive 4x4s either.
Down here in the west-mids, people are f**king idiots!
Last year, fresh snow I got stuck on a snowy hill because the car in front (old Fiesta) was doing 5mph and I didn't have the momentum to get me up and over (Mondeo), I was well pissed off, after finally getting moving I went back home and decided that no matter how well I can drive in the snow and no matter how good my tyres are, I cannot control the idiots around me.
Back in 2009, we had BIG snow, same thing again, people driving far too slowly and getting themselves stuck.
Tyres, people simply don't believe in the benefit of winter tyres, but not only this, many people always buy the cheapest tyres they possibly can, because the man a crapfit insisted that "all tyres are the same", whilst rubbing his hands together at the profit margin on fitting a £3.50 SuperHedgehog XL, and charging £45 for it.
I fully agree with sentiment of the bit in bold, but most people on here are quite particular about tyre brand.Down here in the west-mids, people are f**king idiots!
Last year, fresh snow I got stuck on a snowy hill because the car in front (old Fiesta) was doing 5mph and I didn't have the momentum to get me up and over (Mondeo), I was well pissed off, after finally getting moving I went back home and decided that no matter how well I can drive in the snow and no matter how good my tyres are, I cannot control the idiots around me.
Back in 2009, we had BIG snow, same thing again, people driving far too slowly and getting themselves stuck.
Tyres, people simply don't believe in the benefit of winter tyres, but not only this, many people always buy the cheapest tyres they possibly can, because the man a crapfit insisted that "all tyres are the same", whilst rubbing his hands together at the profit margin on fitting a £3.50 SuperHedgehog XL, and charging £45 for it.
Personally, I have never needed winters to get around in the snow and probably wont bother until every winter is like 2009 (or 1985)..
Edited by Hol on Thursday 24th January 11:57
300bhp/ton said:
Quite the opposite I'm afraid. Not saying all owners of 4wd's make use of the extra abilities or maybe don't understand them. But most 4wd systems will always be superior to 2wd systems on slippery surfaces. This is why 4wd rally cars are vastly faster than 2wd ones. They have an advantage all the time, braking and cornering included. [/b] If it was just to get going, then the 4wd rally car would only be quicker out of the starting gate. But they aren't, they are quicker everywhere on loose or slippery surfaces[b].
This is a contradiction, a 4wd rally car is faster because it's constantly using that 4wd to pull it's way out of and as such accelerate out of corners, where a RWD would be power sliding and a FWD would have to deal with understeer. It's still all about getting power through the wheels, it's buggar all to do with anything else.As for all this "modern 4x4" stuff, an old school defender still kicks arse in comparison to a "modern 4x4", because it's lighter and it has narrow tyres which cut right down through the muck to find grip, instead of floating on top of it.
Anyone who believes all the 4x4 marketing we get all over the TV from November onwards (and especially after a bit of snow), is delusional.
Balmoral said:
I was having a discussion with a neighbour about traction and grip not being the same thing. Put a fwd car, a rwd car, and a 4wd car on a tiltable plinth and tilt it until they slide off. Is the 4wd car going to stay on for longer? Of course not, they'll all slide off at the same time.
Yeah good luck with that, it's like trying to explain the difference between water pressure and flow rate.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff