RE: Ginetta confirms development of 600hp supercar
Discussion
Jimbo89 said:
toppstuff said:
Wasn’t Ginettaa big plan to bring us a new high end sports car based on the Farbio ?
Whatever happened to that ?
They built 150 of them (roughly). Unfortunately all the people that were screaming for the Farbio to be saved never turned up and bought one so they stopped making it in 2015.Whatever happened to that ?
pictures below incase I'm using the wrong model numbers
G40
G60
would love to have a go in a G60
Love Ginetta. In recent years they have:
Created the first proper, successful and feasible young driver programme (juniors).
Helped get GT4 off the ground (G50)
...And LMP3.
....And LMP1 private (they were the first to commit to new rules).
The big problem is that as soon as they do that, someone else comes along and does it better, leaving them somewhat as 2nd tier options for GT3/4, and "no-one uses them anymore" in LMP3.. sadly we have no idea how they'd fair in LMP1 because their partners (Manor) picked the wrong commercial partner (CEFC) and that deal collapsed amid state corruption - net effect we didn't get to see them at Le Mans or anywhere else.
Their shortcomings in LMP3 were seemingly reliability and team support - they went and beat their customers with the factory LNT team, whereas their real opposition (Onroak, owner of Ligier brand these days) use Oak racing to support customers and have a policy of not entering Oak racing as a direct effort against customers. In that first year you saw Villorba, Speed factory and (RLR??) all struggle with setup whilst LNT romped away up front. Add in the seeming frailty of the Ginetta P3 and boom, from 100% Ginetta to 100% Ligier in 2 years.
IMO this "to fund their LMP1" should be interpreted not as the _current_ LMP1, which already exists but has no current customers - but a potential 2021 "new rules" LMP1 entry. The good news is that there is a current PHer who will almpost certainly have the perfect inside scoop - Graham Goodwin of dailysportscar.com / RadioLeMans / this Week In Sportscars podcast. I think he's GrahamG on here. Keep an eye out and the full story will probably surface, probably with interview from LT himself.
As for the road car? I have no clue if it will sell a lot (uspect minimal numbers TBH), but I can't recall any time Ginetta / Laurence tomlinson said they'd do something and then didn't do it - and so to me this is a very different category to the "normal" 4 curves of white on a black background "we're making a hypercar lads" press release. Pity they chose to follow the "sniff petrol hypercar press release" format though!
Created the first proper, successful and feasible young driver programme (juniors).
Helped get GT4 off the ground (G50)
...And LMP3.
....And LMP1 private (they were the first to commit to new rules).
The big problem is that as soon as they do that, someone else comes along and does it better, leaving them somewhat as 2nd tier options for GT3/4, and "no-one uses them anymore" in LMP3.. sadly we have no idea how they'd fair in LMP1 because their partners (Manor) picked the wrong commercial partner (CEFC) and that deal collapsed amid state corruption - net effect we didn't get to see them at Le Mans or anywhere else.
Their shortcomings in LMP3 were seemingly reliability and team support - they went and beat their customers with the factory LNT team, whereas their real opposition (Onroak, owner of Ligier brand these days) use Oak racing to support customers and have a policy of not entering Oak racing as a direct effort against customers. In that first year you saw Villorba, Speed factory and (RLR??) all struggle with setup whilst LNT romped away up front. Add in the seeming frailty of the Ginetta P3 and boom, from 100% Ginetta to 100% Ligier in 2 years.
IMO this "to fund their LMP1" should be interpreted not as the _current_ LMP1, which already exists but has no current customers - but a potential 2021 "new rules" LMP1 entry. The good news is that there is a current PHer who will almpost certainly have the perfect inside scoop - Graham Goodwin of dailysportscar.com / RadioLeMans / this Week In Sportscars podcast. I think he's GrahamG on here. Keep an eye out and the full story will probably surface, probably with interview from LT himself.
As for the road car? I have no clue if it will sell a lot (uspect minimal numbers TBH), but I can't recall any time Ginetta / Laurence tomlinson said they'd do something and then didn't do it - and so to me this is a very different category to the "normal" 4 curves of white on a black background "we're making a hypercar lads" press release. Pity they chose to follow the "sniff petrol hypercar press release" format though!
Tired said:
housen said:
Mafffew said:
housen said:
Doshy said:
McLaren 600LT-rivalling...... I very much doubt that.
It's a supercar a day at the moment.
yeah right It's a supercar a day at the moment.
what u drive ? a mclaren bosh!!!!!
umm a ginetta ....
eh whats that ?
if this ginetta costs the same as a mclaren 600 lt
and u had the choice ? which one would you buy with your own real money ?
Or are you going to force us to make a decision based purely on the badge, because that's a really silly way to buy a car.
ceebmoj said:
Jimbo89 said:
toppstuff said:
Wasn’t Ginettaa big plan to bring us a new high end sports car based on the Farbio ?
Whatever happened to that ?
They built 150 of them (roughly). Unfortunately all the people that were screaming for the Farbio to be saved never turned up and bought one so they stopped making it in 2015.Whatever happened to that ?
pictures below incase I'm using the wrong model numbers
G40
G60
would love to have a go in a G60
The G40R road car with the 2.0L I've no idea how many they sold but the G40 Chassis has been in production since 2010 and is used for the Juniors, GRDC, G40 Cup and GT5 Challenge with varying power outputs, not mentioning the road car.
Ginetta will still make you a 2.0L G40R if you ask them nicely but from what I was told buyers wanted a machine they could race and that car was missing key elements for homologation so they moved to producing the GRDC cars which were still road legal but also race-legal.
andy97 said:
Sadly, the modern Ginetta have pulled out of the road car market up to now because they have struggled with quality control issues. Is that going to change?
Nope. They just aren't that kind of company. I raced a Ginetta for a season and I'm local to the factory so I got to know them quite well and visited many times. It's a race car factory, neither the people nor the company has the mindset nor set up to make high quality road cars.We'll never see it. Just some headline grabbing.
I was at the Ginetta factory 2 weeks ago at a private event and we were shown this car. No photos allowed and not to be mentioned online etc until they released details. They gave us some details and I can only say, so many of the assumptions in this thread are wrong and the press release is wholly correct. It looked stunning in the flesh, very different from all the other supercars on the road.
That top picture isn't a computer render, it's the actual physical car.
That top picture isn't a computer render, it's the actual physical car.
Lawrence Tomlinson said:
the company was "applying knowledge and technology from our racing programmes to build an uncompromised yet utterly capable road-going supercar
I hate to break it to you Lawrence, there are actually very few skills used in running a team that makes a handful of racing cars that are usefully transferable to producing a competitive (in 2019) road car. It's literally childs play to make a fast car, watch you tube, people do it all the time in there shed at home, cars that do 200 mph or run 7 second quarters. But to make a car that can do that and is robust, comfortable, safe, well equipped, recyclable, certifiable, and above all, PROFITABLE is a whole different ball game (as proven by so many other failures in trying to do just that) (also, as soon as the word "uncompromising" is mentioned you know they are talking utter b*ll*cks. Trust me, having developed a lot of very high performance road cars, everything is a compromise, absolutely EVERYTHING! )
housen said:
Tired said:
housen said:
Mafffew said:
housen said:
Doshy said:
McLaren 600LT-rivalling...... I very much doubt that.
It's a supercar a day at the moment.
yeah right It's a supercar a day at the moment.
what u drive ? a mclaren bosh!!!!!
umm a ginetta ....
eh whats that ?
if this ginetta costs the same as a mclaren 600 lt
and u had the choice ? which one would you buy with your own real money ?
Or are you going to force us to make a decision based purely on the badge, because that's a really silly way to buy a car.
But the decision wouldn't be based on which one had the nicer badge on the front.
Max_Torque said:
I hate to break it to you Lawrence, there are actually very few skills used in running a team that makes a handful of racing cars that are usefully transferable to producing a competitive (in 2019) road car. It's literally childs play to make a fast car, watch you tube, people do it all the time in there shed at home, cars that do 200 mph or run 7 second quarters. But to make a car that can do that and is robust, comfortable, safe, well equipped, recyclable, certifiable, and above all, PROFITABLE is a whole different ball game (as proven by so many other failures in trying to do just that)
(also, as soon as the word "uncompromising" is mentioned you know they are talking utter b*ll*cks. Trust me, having developed a lot of very high performance road cars, everything is a compromise, absolutely EVERYTHING! )
Nice chip there. Not sure it makes the best epilette?(also, as soon as the word "uncompromising" is mentioned you know they are talking utter b*ll*cks. Trust me, having developed a lot of very high performance road cars, everything is a compromise, absolutely EVERYTHING! )
He's not running a team that makes a handful of race cars. He's not making a shed type car that can be a bit fast.
He's running a company that has made hundreds of fast, reliable racing cars capable of racing all season with best in class running costs. Capable of beating Porache, McLaren, Aston, Ferrari et all. Making trwckday / VLN cars that were as fast as last gen LMP2 with under 1/2 the running costs.
Your post implies you either don't know this, or just choose to overlook it. Either way, it comes across horribly - and does you no favours.
Some Gump said:
He's running a company that has made hundreds of fast, reliable racing cars capable of racing all season with best in class running costs. Capable of beating Porache, McLaren, Aston, Ferrari et all. Making trwckday / VLN cars that were as fast as last gen LMP2 with under 1/2 the running costs.
er, racing cars run to fixed regulations to make the racing 'close' Do you think a company that spends, lets charitably say £1M on development or a race car can actually beat a company that can spend £100M on the same car? Road cars, although heavily regulated, are actually in a much free-er environment, and one where simply going fast is actually really easy these days
And making "hundreds" of racing cars (over their entire history) is on any kind of production scale, a tiny, tiny drop in the ocean, it's trivially easy. You need a large shed and a few mechanics to nail it together. That's pretty much it. Now have a go at trying to make a modern, genuinely world class super car, like the aforementioned 600LT. go on, have a go! The basics, which are mostly incredibly un-sexy, like say making the doors shut nicely, consumes many, many man hours or design, development and test. This is where all these projects founder, they get consumed by the POWER and the SPEED and UNCOMPROMISING RACING HERITAGE, which unfortunately might be enough to sell 6 cars, but 60, or even 600, well history suggests not.
Look at the new TVR. Launched with much puff about "racing car DNA" and other such waffle, using proven motorsports designers (GMD) and yet here and now, 4 years later, where are we exactly?
Good luck to them. They've built some lovely cars over the years and seem to be on a bit of a roll in motorsport. Its always seemed they've been a short step away from making a more honest/resolved road car that could fill a gap in the UK. G40s are great but a road racer G55 with just enough creature comfort could be great. Not sure another Supercar is required but I hope they succeed in whatever they do. From the little i know of him I like LT attitude and just hope they don't squander time and money on this when a rowdy resolved sports car could appeal to so many..
Also hope it's good looking in a curvaceous aggressive manner. Unfortunately the glimpse of the nose of the car in the render looks fecking terrible, ( and we've seen what sort of reaction an ugly mug gets over in the TVR forum. Can kill a car before it gets off the drawing board )..
Edmundo2 said:
Good luck to them. They've built some lovely cars over the years and seem to be on a bit of a roll in motorsport. Its always seemed they've been a short step away from making a more honest/resolved road car that could fill a gap in the UK. G40s are great but a road racer G55 with just enough creature comfort could be great. Not sure another Supercar is required but I hope they succeed in whatever they do. From the little i know of him I like LT attitude and just hope they don't squander time and money on this when a rowdy resolved sports car could appeal to so many..
RumbleOfThunder said:
Tired said:
Do Ginetta have a wind tunnel?
If not, do they use someone else's?
Why do they need a wind tunnel? If not, do they use someone else's?
They used Williams Advanced Engineering for wind tunnel work on the LMP1 car.
Max_Torque said:
er, racing cars run to fixed regulations to make the racing 'close' Do you think a company that spends, lets charitably say £1M on development or a race car can actually beat a company that can spend £100M on the same car?
Road cars, although heavily regulated, are actually in a much free-er environment, and one where simply going fast is actually really easy these days
And making "hundreds" of racing cars (over their entire history) is on any kind of production scale, a tiny, tiny drop in the ocean, it's trivially easy. You need a large shed and a few mechanics to nail it together. That's pretty much it. Now have a go at trying to make a modern, genuinely world class super car, like the aforementioned 600LT. go on, have a go! The basics, which are mostly incredibly un-sexy, like say making the doors shut nicely, consumes many, many man hours or design, development and test. This is where all these projects founder, they get consumed by the POWER and the SPEED and UNCOMPROMISING RACING HERITAGE, which unfortunately might be enough to sell 6 cars, but 60, or even 600, well history suggests not.
Look at the new TVR. Launched with much puff about "racing car DNA" and other such waffle, using proven motorsports designers (GMD) and yet here and now, 4 years later, where are we exactly?
Sadly you're 100% correct. What's the harm in trying though? Every now and then we get a gem like the M600. No one's ever going to make money these days trying but that's their problem. We should be glad we don't just have Porsche and Ferrari to choose from!Road cars, although heavily regulated, are actually in a much free-er environment, and one where simply going fast is actually really easy these days
And making "hundreds" of racing cars (over their entire history) is on any kind of production scale, a tiny, tiny drop in the ocean, it's trivially easy. You need a large shed and a few mechanics to nail it together. That's pretty much it. Now have a go at trying to make a modern, genuinely world class super car, like the aforementioned 600LT. go on, have a go! The basics, which are mostly incredibly un-sexy, like say making the doors shut nicely, consumes many, many man hours or design, development and test. This is where all these projects founder, they get consumed by the POWER and the SPEED and UNCOMPROMISING RACING HERITAGE, which unfortunately might be enough to sell 6 cars, but 60, or even 600, well history suggests not.
Look at the new TVR. Launched with much puff about "racing car DNA" and other such waffle, using proven motorsports designers (GMD) and yet here and now, 4 years later, where are we exactly?
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