RE: £240k Range Rover SV Coupe canned
Discussion
defonsecca said:
Like the above have said, there obviously weren't enough orders to make any profit.
Whilst I don't like these mega-money SUV's, it's a pity this has got canned - it's by far the best looking of the ilk & has much more understated class than the hideous Uras / Bentayga / Cullinan lot.
Why they have to be so ugly & aggressive is beyond me. Market tastes I guess......
This misses the fundamental factor in an SUV over the saloon equivalent. Space/practicality. Whilst I don't like these mega-money SUV's, it's a pity this has got canned - it's by far the best looking of the ilk & has much more understated class than the hideous Uras / Bentayga / Cullinan lot.
Why they have to be so ugly & aggressive is beyond me. Market tastes I guess......
JLR managed to design a £240k SUV that offered worse practicality than the £100k version and without the prestige (and potentially quality/individualism) the Rolls Royce and Bentley offer.
I saw this at GW FoS and I thought it was stunning; all the go of the SVR Sport in a lovely looking 2-door RR.
Speaking with the guy there he said (and apologies if I've misremembered this) but all bright work was solid aluminium, similarly for the interior fittings.
It's interesting what a previous poster wrote about ordering hoop jumping. In conversation we were told that you could only buy it through a particular event or dealership, not all of them and that you had to agree to keep the car for a period of one or two years without selling.
Personally I think it's a shame.
Speaking with the guy there he said (and apologies if I've misremembered this) but all bright work was solid aluminium, similarly for the interior fittings.
It's interesting what a previous poster wrote about ordering hoop jumping. In conversation we were told that you could only buy it through a particular event or dealership, not all of them and that you had to agree to keep the car for a period of one or two years without selling.
Personally I think it's a shame.
JLR have screwed the pooch by failing to spot the shift from diesel to hybrid. Not having a hybrid Disco is a disaster - the middle-class urban affluent market that actually buys the things a) is more switched on to global warming (or the need to signal their awareness, at least), b) lives in cities that are introducing ultra-low emission zones and emission-based parking permit pricing and c) may well get the car through a company and be sensitive to BIK. All of those are why we've bought an XC90 T8 after 4 consecutive JLR products (1 x FFRR, 3 x Disco 4).
They don't even have a hybrid Disco Sport or Evoque, FFS. Same market, largely, so same problems. Having a £95k hybrid FFRR and an also expensive, if less so, hybrid footballer's wife car - sorry, RRS - isn't enough.
It doesn't matter if you think hybrids are rationally the right answer. They, especially PHEVs, are what the market currently wants and what the tax system encourages. Not seeing that coming was inexcusable, given that the XC90 PHEV came out in 2015. Obviously not everyone feels this way, or JLR would be selling no cars at all, but using my favourite rule-of-thumb, the Flexiplus lane at the Eurotunnel, I can tell you that what used to be JLR parking only (basically Discos with a leavening of FFRR and RRS) is now at least a third Volvo.
I can completely understand why they'd ditch a low-margin, low-volume halo product, given the need to devote all their resources to engineering some products the mass market will actually buy - frankly, if they could get the batteries they should license the Hyundai/Kia Kona/Soul EV/Niro drivetrain and shove it under the Evoque and Disco Sport, as well as downsizing the P400e package (and making it reliable).
They don't even have a hybrid Disco Sport or Evoque, FFS. Same market, largely, so same problems. Having a £95k hybrid FFRR and an also expensive, if less so, hybrid footballer's wife car - sorry, RRS - isn't enough.
It doesn't matter if you think hybrids are rationally the right answer. They, especially PHEVs, are what the market currently wants and what the tax system encourages. Not seeing that coming was inexcusable, given that the XC90 PHEV came out in 2015. Obviously not everyone feels this way, or JLR would be selling no cars at all, but using my favourite rule-of-thumb, the Flexiplus lane at the Eurotunnel, I can tell you that what used to be JLR parking only (basically Discos with a leavening of FFRR and RRS) is now at least a third Volvo.
I can completely understand why they'd ditch a low-margin, low-volume halo product, given the need to devote all their resources to engineering some products the mass market will actually buy - frankly, if they could get the batteries they should license the Hyundai/Kia Kona/Soul EV/Niro drivetrain and shove it under the Evoque and Disco Sport, as well as downsizing the P400e package (and making it reliable).
Paracetamol said:
What is even stranger is that I saw at least 10 under full build at the SVO factory when I went to select colours and trim. Truly a shame as the product was genuinely magnificent close up.
I'm sure they are very nice. But you'd have to have your head checked to spend 250k on one. The Rolls is a much better punt in every way964Cup said:
JLR have screwed the pooch by failing to spot the shift from diesel to hybrid. Not having a hybrid Disco is a disaster - the middle-class urban affluent market that actually buys the things a) is more switched on to global warming (or the need to signal their awareness, at least), b) lives in cities that are introducing ultra-low emission zones and emission-based parking permit pricing and c) may well get the car through a company and be sensitive to BIK. All of those are why we've bought an XC90 T8 after 4 consecutive JLR products (1 x FFRR, 3 x Disco 4).
They don't even have a hybrid Disco Sport or Evoque, FFS. Same market, largely, so same problems. Having a £95k hybrid FFRR and an also expensive, if less so, hybrid footballer's wife car - sorry, RRS - isn't enough.
It doesn't matter if you think hybrids are rationally the right answer. They, especially PHEVs, are what the market currently wants and what the tax system encourages. Not seeing that coming was inexcusable, given that the XC90 PHEV came out in 2015. Obviously not everyone feels this way, or JLR would be selling no cars at all, but using my favourite rule-of-thumb, the Flexiplus lane at the Eurotunnel, I can tell you that what used to be JLR parking only (basically Discos with a leavening of FFRR and RRS) is now at least a third Volvo.
I can completely understand why they'd ditch a low-margin, low-volume halo product, given the need to devote all their resources to engineering some products the mass market will actually buy - frankly, if they could get the batteries they should license the Hyundai/Kia Kona/Soul EV/Niro drivetrain and shove it under the Evoque and Disco Sport, as well as downsizing the P400e package (and making it reliable).
Hybrids across the range are on the way. The new gen Evoque is engineered to take a hybrid option. In fact the new PTA platform that will underpin a lot of JLR's forthcoming line up is designed with a hybrid option in mind. They don't even have a hybrid Disco Sport or Evoque, FFS. Same market, largely, so same problems. Having a £95k hybrid FFRR and an also expensive, if less so, hybrid footballer's wife car - sorry, RRS - isn't enough.
It doesn't matter if you think hybrids are rationally the right answer. They, especially PHEVs, are what the market currently wants and what the tax system encourages. Not seeing that coming was inexcusable, given that the XC90 PHEV came out in 2015. Obviously not everyone feels this way, or JLR would be selling no cars at all, but using my favourite rule-of-thumb, the Flexiplus lane at the Eurotunnel, I can tell you that what used to be JLR parking only (basically Discos with a leavening of FFRR and RRS) is now at least a third Volvo.
I can completely understand why they'd ditch a low-margin, low-volume halo product, given the need to devote all their resources to engineering some products the mass market will actually buy - frankly, if they could get the batteries they should license the Hyundai/Kia Kona/Soul EV/Niro drivetrain and shove it under the Evoque and Disco Sport, as well as downsizing the P400e package (and making it reliable).
964Cup said:
but using my favourite rule-of-thumb, the Flexiplus lane at the Eurotunnel, I can tell you that what used to be JLR parking only (basically Discos with a leavening of FFRR and RRS) is now at least a third Volvo.
Likewise, my favourite rule of thumb is the on-beach parking at Polzeath. Once the preserve of JLR is now <--XC90 Parking Only-->.HannsG said:
Stacks of JLR motors everywhere.
People must be minted to buy these new.
Well, FFRR aside, no, not really - or at least they weren't. Our Discos (HSEs, with a couple of options) came in around the mid-50s new after discount (the last one was £53,588.75 in 2014, according to the order form). The XC90 we've just bought to replace it, after sweating the thing for an extra year in the hope that JLR would pull their finger out, came in at just under £70k after a fairly substantial discount (I think it listed at £78k on the configurator). That's a good deal more for a car that does exactly the same job for us, albeit with a few more toys and (obviously) a hybrid drivetrain bolted on. I always thought the Disco was amazing value, actually, compared to the competition. And compared to the FFRR, which has just become ridiculously costly. Obviously there has been some inflation, but I think the RR Vogue we bought in 2005 was about £60k. I priced up a P400e RR with sensible options and it came to £95k. People must be minted to buy these new.
ps - if anyone wants a 40k mile 2015MY DIsco4 HSE in Stormont over Almond with steps, towbar, privacy, heated wheel and black lacquer, PM me...:-)
Paracetamol said:
What is even stranger is that I saw at least 10 under full build at the SVO factory when I went to select colours and trim. Truly a shame as the product was genuinely magnificent close up.
I’m guessing that they only made soft tools (i.e. prototype tools with no grain that only last a few hundred shots and are therefore cheap) for any unique plastic trims / body panels which were used for prototype cars and were going to be used for production cars too.Therefore pulling the pin isn’t too costly.
Or the cars you saw were pure cut and shut prototypes made using hand modified 4 door parts, and no unique tooling exists.
LR have alienated the majority of their customers by loosing complete touch with their core, destroying their brand design through the tasteless and bizarre, supported by a dealer network bordering on arrogant, and fundamentally poor quality product. Had the world at their feet with the evoque and RR, great example of groupthink
Talksteer said:
Sorry for not using the correct accountant speak.....
For reference (not proper) Rolls-Royce expect to sell 2500-3000 Cullinans at an average sale price of £320,000. That comes out as an annual revenue of £800-1000 million.
The Bentley Monstrosity has about double the sales volume and just over half the price.
Both those brands have the benefit that they don't have a comparable mass market car to anchor the price point at a lower value.
The interesting one is that as the Land Rover Defender started to move out of production various special editions sold out at £150k price points. The base price of the G Wagon is £94k and £163k for the AMG plus ridiculous options.
Where is that sales figure from? For reference (not proper) Rolls-Royce expect to sell 2500-3000 Cullinans at an average sale price of £320,000. That comes out as an annual revenue of £800-1000 million.
The Bentley Monstrosity has about double the sales volume and just over half the price.
Both those brands have the benefit that they don't have a comparable mass market car to anchor the price point at a lower value.
The interesting one is that as the Land Rover Defender started to move out of production various special editions sold out at £150k price points. The base price of the G Wagon is £94k and £163k for the AMG plus ridiculous options.
2500-3000 Cullinans a year! That sounds a lot to me.
964Cup said:
XC90... That's a good deal more for a car that does exactly the same job for us, albeit with a few more toys and (obviously) a hybrid drivetrain bolted on. .
From experience, a new XC90 is a very different car from a Discovery or a Range Rover - it’s a V90 on stilts and is effectively useless away from tarmac, and I wouldn’t fancy towing anything much with it either. Nice enough thing for taking the kids to school etc. but definitely not a true alternative.
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