Would you still go Diesel...
Discussion
Unless you're doing mega miles there is zero point in a diesel now. My 340i returns high 20s round town and mid 40s on a run, neither are much behind the 335d and petrol is 10ppl cheaper so the saving is negligible. Twinned with the DPF/EGR valves eventually clogging up doing short trips there's no saving to be had.
I might think different if I were doing 25k a year but for anything below 12k ish I can't see how a diesel makes sense.
I might think different if I were doing 25k a year but for anything below 12k ish I can't see how a diesel makes sense.
Blanco92 said:
....... Until recently I was doing north of 25k p/a getting almost 50mpg out of my 2003 1.9 TDI. Pretty effortless cruising, decent performance and reliable......
They don't make them like they used to!Once you put a DPF on a diesel engine it becomes unpredictable.
Out of warranty it becomes a potential money-pit; having to pay a dealer a few times per year to clear or replace a blocked DPF that the car gave no advance warning of.
RobDickinson said:
Short term diesel.
Medium term ev.
We are not far from the tipping point for commercial vehicles once ev costs are overall lower it'll change fast
Do we actually properly understand the whole life environmental costs of ev’s? Who’s to say they won’t be the next diesels?Medium term ev.
We are not far from the tipping point for commercial vehicles once ev costs are overall lower it'll change fast
RobDickinson said:
Socially unacceptable.
Really? Quite the statement.Drink driving is socially unacceptable,
Go down the pub and have a skinful of beer and tell people you are about to drive home - socially unacceptable.
Go down the pub and have a skinful of diet coke and tell people you are about to drive home in a diesel - no one gives a s
t i.e. not socially unacceptable.Ron99 said:
They don't make them like they used to!
Once you put a DPF on a diesel engine it becomes unpredictable.
Out of warranty it becomes a potential money-pit; having to pay a dealer a few times per year to clear or replace a blocked DPF that the car gave no advance warning of.
A few times a year!!! Rather an exaggeration. My diesel is 6 years old; has been driven only 16K total in the last 3 years with only a few journeys that weren't local and no DPF problems.Once you put a DPF on a diesel engine it becomes unpredictable.
Out of warranty it becomes a potential money-pit; having to pay a dealer a few times per year to clear or replace a blocked DPF that the car gave no advance warning of.
You may not like diesels but exaggeration only weakens your case.
Ron99 said:
My nearest major city is Cambridge and the last I heard was that the most likely outcome will be that all petrol and diesel will be banned from certain areas soon.
Electric or hybrid will be exempt.
So even our Eu-6 compliant petrol (1ltr nat-asp 70hp) would be affected as much as an old diesel.
However, when I have to make trips to London the Eu-6 petrol will come in handy.
..and an EU6 diesel also.Electric or hybrid will be exempt.
So even our Eu-6 compliant petrol (1ltr nat-asp 70hp) would be affected as much as an old diesel.
However, when I have to make trips to London the Eu-6 petrol will come in handy.
Pizzaeatingking said:
Unless you're doing mega miles there is zero point in a diesel now. My 340i returns high 20s round town and mid 40s on a run, neither are much behind the 335d and petrol is 10ppl cheaper so the saving is negligible. Twinned with the DPF/EGR valves eventually clogging up doing short trips there's no saving to be had.
I might think different if I were doing 25k a year but for anything below 12k ish I can't see how a diesel makes sense.
Torque.I might think different if I were doing 25k a year but for anything below 12k ish I can't see how a diesel makes sense.
troika said:
Do we actually properly understand the whole life environmental costs of ev’s? Who’s to say they won’t be the next diesels?
Battery disposal/recycling concerns me. One day there will probably be a scandal involving someone (the Chinese?) cutting corners or a major accident with toxic by-products.Not to mention the difficulties for the fire brigade in dealing with battery fires or a crashed EV with damaged batteries.
Glosphil said:
A few times a year!!! Rather an exaggeration. My diesel is 6 years old; has been driven only 16K total in the last 3 years with only a few journeys that weren't local and no DPF problems.
You may not like diesels but exaggeration only weakens your case.
I like diesels for what they're intended to do. I want a diesel because my mileage this year is likely to approach 30k and my annual mileage has been high for many years.You may not like diesels but exaggeration only weakens your case.
But I've experienced DPF diesels. I drove them in the textbook way - nearly every journey long and fast. They still broke down with DPF problems more than once per year.
Several years ago, for the first time ever, I took out AA membership purely as a result of DPF-related breakdowns even though cars were only a few years old.
I was losing sleep at night wondering whether I'd make it to my destination if I had a long journey the next day.
So I went back to petrol. Reliability restored. Good night's sleep restored.
Ron99 said:
troika said:
Do we actually properly understand the whole life environmental costs of ev’s? Who’s to say they won’t be the next diesels?
Battery disposal/recycling concerns me. One day there will probably be a scandal involving someone (the Chinese?) cutting corners or a major accident with toxic by-products.Not to mention the difficulties for the fire brigade in dealing with battery fires or a crashed EV with damaged batteries.
https://insideevs.com/myth-busted-battery-recyclin...
But then EV batteries will typically have a second live in powerwall like applications for several years after being in cars. So the overall lifetime of an EV battery will be 15-20 years before it needs recycling.
Ev fires though are a problem, they are far less likely than a ICE fire but do need more effort to put out, for now. Once solid state batteries come online this goes away entirely, so its only a short term issue.
Hm. Interesting thread as I've been considering getting a performance diesel 4x4 before I commit to hybrid tech.
Recently I tried a Mercedes GLC 350D. I was shocked by the performance - OK it's no GT3 race car but considering it's supposed to be a dull family 4x4 for doing the school run, the stats are bonkers: 3.0-litre V6 twin turbo, 255bhp of power, 457lb ft. With the sports setting, and the seat at the lowest setting, it felt like some kind of bizarre hybrid sports car. 9 gears meant the power on acceleration was relentless. In-gear acceleration eg when overtaking on a motorway was when you could really notice the performance. And 32mpg about town.
More info here: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/mercedes...
And so before things get a bit silly, I'm toying with the idea of going down the diesel route.
Recently I tried a Mercedes GLC 350D. I was shocked by the performance - OK it's no GT3 race car but considering it's supposed to be a dull family 4x4 for doing the school run, the stats are bonkers: 3.0-litre V6 twin turbo, 255bhp of power, 457lb ft. With the sports setting, and the seat at the lowest setting, it felt like some kind of bizarre hybrid sports car. 9 gears meant the power on acceleration was relentless. In-gear acceleration eg when overtaking on a motorway was when you could really notice the performance. And 32mpg about town.
More info here: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/mercedes...
And so before things get a bit silly, I'm toying with the idea of going down the diesel route.
Glosphil said:
A few times a year!!! Rather an exaggeration. My diesel is 6 years old; has been driven only 16K total in the last 3 years with only a few journeys that weren't local and no DPF problems.
You may not like diesels but exaggeration only weakens your case.
DPFs start to become a problem as they get to higher mileages and as they get to the age where things start failing, glow plugs, thermostats, exhaust temp sensors etc. etc. You may not like diesels but exaggeration only weakens your case.
They then can't regen and that is when you get issues.
Why would you buy a diesel to do less than 3000 miles a year in anyway?
I have owned enough cars with the equivalent diesel and petrol engine in it.
E46 330i and 330d.
E39 530i and 530d.
A4 2.5 tdi and 3.0i
A6 3.0tdi and 3.2fsi
W210 E320cdi and E320
W212 E350d and E350
E91 335d and 335i.
The only constant is the difference in MPG between them is between 10-20% and I do around 25k miles a year.
On the months where I am not on the road and doing lots of sub 10 mile journeys the petrol is often more economical, especially in winter.
The 6 mile school run is a perfect example of that.
I think the problem is, not many have owned a petrol for years now, they are comparing the old 1.9tdi to the old 1.8i, both 90hp, both gutless, but one gets 25mpg and the other 55mpg.
It was a no brainer to buy the diesel.
But modern petrols have come on massively, plus most of them are forced induction too, so the old argument for petrols feeling lethargic is a nonsense now too. In fact that is my main issue with modern petrols, they feel more like a diesel to drive with the expception of a few, sure they are smoother, rev a bit better and sound much nicer, but they still feel a bit diesel like in their delivery.
Mate of mine swapped his 2012 320d touring for a 2015 320i Touring, both F31 models with auto 'box and he was getting 49mpg in the diesel and is seeing 43mpg in the petrol. So just over 10% worse off, but he is saving around 8% at the pump.
He reckons it is costing him £5 a week more at the pump doing 20k miles a year.
I went back to a diesel last year with a 530d Touring, I calculated the mpg today for the first time funnily enough, only because I paid at the pump and got a receipt. My OBC is reading 36.9mpg, and was reset when I filled up.
I got 64.5 litres back in the tank and managed 436 miles, which is a smidge under 31mpg.
Like every diesel I have owned, the obc lies.
Where as all the petrols have been spot on.
I reckon this is because when I reset the diesels they start at 40mpg and slowly go down until it gets to temp and then goes up again until it lands at where it lands. On the petrol they start at 14mpg and climb up, plus they get to temp in a mile or less.
Short, sub 10 mile, journeys therefore throw out the OBC calculations badly when it comes to diesels, which is why I think they are so far out.
If I do lots of long, 50 mile plus journeys throughout the tank the OBC is more accurate.
The UK has an unjust fear of diesels. But when we have had official figures so far out it is no wonder really.
I always look at the US sites for MPG, not many diesels on there, but they are far more realistic.
Take the US vs UK Mercedes E350d.
UK figures was 43 urban and 67 extra urban compared with US (converted to UK gallons) which shows City 28mpg and Highway 38mpg.
You can see one customer is going to be jarred off, and it isn't the US customer.
Then compare it to the E350 petrol, the US has the petrol at 26mpg City and 35mpg Highway.
26 vs 28 and then 35 vs 38mpg and you can see why they don't sell many diesels.
I owned both the 350d and the 350 petrol, my figures pretty much matched the US figures by the way. The petrol was so, so, so much nicer too.
As an overall cost on a new or nearly new car, for anyone doing sub 20k miles a year the savings by going diesel will be about 2-3%.
Problem is no one ever really does the maths properly.
Is diesel dead?
Nah, we will still buy them, because we think we are saving money.
granto223 said:
So i’m making the change to a performance petrol from a performance diesel due to the pump prices, depreciations and the overall scare of the diesels.
Is anyone else doing the same and what’s your opnions?
I mean i only do 10k a year but still - wondering peoples thoughts on the future of diesels?
you be crazy, I would rather pull my brains out through my eye sockes than drive a manky derv, especially after owning a performance petrol. They are dead and no one wants anything to do with them anymore, good riddance. Is anyone else doing the same and what’s your opnions?
I mean i only do 10k a year but still - wondering peoples thoughts on the future of diesels?
Edited by ericmcn on Monday 4th February 00:21
Edited by ericmcn on Monday 4th February 00:31
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