RE: Mountune launches m400X map for Focus RS
Discussion
rottenegg said:
Watched until he talked and said 'I have no money'. Tuning to get more than you can actually afford will never work indeed...
The limit for the conrods is somewhere around 650Nm, but there is variance and with tuning you always eat away from the margins untill at some point there isn't any left. Didn't watch but americans generally seem fairly unfamiliar with the concept of moderation (of torque on turbo tunes)...
Thankfully nobody blew there RS engine yet...
Onehp said:
Sounds costly.
With similar mods but without opening the engine, the smaller 2.0 VAG ea888 g.3 will push for 500bhp...
But there is more to driving than Power (unless you live at the Autobahn or have to win at Santa Pod), and as such if I had an FRS I would setttle for the 375 kit...
That's very true, the EA888 was the most boring engine I've ever owned. Impressive but boring. With similar mods but without opening the engine, the smaller 2.0 VAG ea888 g.3 will push for 500bhp...
But there is more to driving than Power (unless you live at the Autobahn or have to win at Santa Pod), and as such if I had an FRS I would setttle for the 375 kit...
For me the MP375 kit would be essential for the FRS, along with an LSD.
Onehp said:
rottenegg said:
Watched until he talked and said 'I have no money'. Tuning to get more than you can actually afford will never work indeed...
The limit for the conrods is somewhere around 650Nm, but there is variance and with tuning you always eat away from the margins untill at some point there isn't any left. Didn't watch but americans generally seem fairly unfamiliar with the concept of moderation (of torque on turbo tunes)...
Thankfully nobody blew there RS engine yet...
Onehp said:
rottenegg said:
Watched until he talked and said 'I have no money'. Tuning to get more than you can actually afford will never work indeed...
The limit for the conrods is somewhere around 650Nm, but there is variance and with tuning you always eat away from the margins untill at some point there isn't any left. Didn't watch but americans generally seem fairly unfamiliar with the concept of moderation (of torque on turbo tunes)...
Thankfully nobody blew there RS engine yet...
The rods are rated to 650nm, or the whole reciprocating mass? I'm not a measurement of twist applies to a part subjected to pressure and inertia?
Anyway, my point was the EA888.3 is not 'comfortable' running 500bhp in standard form. It's ~150hp above what VW's engineers rated the engine to. You can certainly see how thin the block is where the rod made a bid for freedom!
IanJ9375 said:
sgtbash said:
Just for 400!! That motor is horrendous.
Revo, Litchfield and others will do you more without the rods/pistons - Mountune always on the conservative side for safetyrottenegg said:
Yeah it took him a while to get to the money shots! There is a separate video showing the complete carnage, which again, takes many minutes to get to, as is so often the case with American car vloggers.
The rods are rated to 650nm, or the whole reciprocating mass? I'm not a measurement of twist applies to a part subjected to pressure and inertia?
Anyway, my point was the EA888.3 is not 'comfortable' running 500bhp in standard form. It's ~150hp above what VW's engineers rated the engine to. You can certainly see how thin the block is where the rod made a bid for freedom!
I wouldn't think it is comfortable either, 650Nm equates to a lot of cylinder pressure way beyond OEM. Assuming stock rpms. The rods are rated to 650nm, or the whole reciprocating mass? I'm not a measurement of twist applies to a part subjected to pressure and inertia?
Anyway, my point was the EA888.3 is not 'comfortable' running 500bhp in standard form. It's ~150hp above what VW's engineers rated the engine to. You can certainly see how thin the block is where the rod made a bid for freedom!
But consensus is that the 500hp engines don't break for at least a few years...
Personally I play it a lot safer...
Onehp said:
J4CKO said:
Get am M140i plus a tuning box if you want big numbers for not much money, ok, you wont be able to put it down most of the time but they do seem to cope very well at 430 bhp plus.
No xdrive in the UK? It's a great engine for sure, 30% more displacement helps... Throw a bigger turbo into the mix and map it for huge torque and the con rods end up like a Curly Wurly on a hot day, they are pretty strong but are specced to handle 300 ish lb ft with a margin, put some stronger ones in and then it finds the next weakest link.
The trouble is it is a addictive, my thinking is with most modern engines you can get away with a sympathetic remap and a few supporting mods but it does seem to end in tears when bigger turbos get mentioned in conjunction with an otherwise standard engine. Best to look for a car that is faster as standard or get ready for spending !
Onehp said:
rottenegg said:
Yeah it took him a while to get to the money shots! There is a separate video showing the complete carnage, which again, takes many minutes to get to, as is so often the case with American car vloggers.
The rods are rated to 650nm, or the whole reciprocating mass? I'm not a measurement of twist applies to a part subjected to pressure and inertia?
Anyway, my point was the EA888.3 is not 'comfortable' running 500bhp in standard form. It's ~150hp above what VW's engineers rated the engine to. You can certainly see how thin the block is where the rod made a bid for freedom!
I wouldn't think it is comfortable either, 650Nm equates to a lot of cylinder pressure way beyond OEM. Assuming stock rpms. The rods are rated to 650nm, or the whole reciprocating mass? I'm not a measurement of twist applies to a part subjected to pressure and inertia?
Anyway, my point was the EA888.3 is not 'comfortable' running 500bhp in standard form. It's ~150hp above what VW's engineers rated the engine to. You can certainly see how thin the block is where the rod made a bid for freedom!
But consensus is that the 500hp engines don't break for at least a few years...
Personally I play it a lot safer...
Agreed. It's easy to take away the safety margin. The standard engine's tune fires a few degrees ATDC in the high load points. And then tuner X comes along, throws in more boost and more timing. Customer then accidentally fills up with 95, the ignition retarding runs out of adjustment and a ring land cracks.....or worse.
Edited by rottenegg on Tuesday 5th February 12:02
rottenegg said:
Yep, because the engine very rarely produces the full 500hp. It's usually a few years with the odd squirt once or twice a week, or a year if driven hard regularly. There's never any context provided in tuned engine failure stories.
Agreed. It's easy to take away the safety margin. The standard engine's tune fires a few degrees ATDC in the high load points. And then tuner X comes along, throws in more boost and more timing. Customer then accidentally fills up with 95, the ignition retarding runs out of adjustment and a ring land cracks.....or worse.
Indeed. Tuning is essentially that, plucking out more and when things get too hot, let the ECU dial back, hoping it's not too late. Since there is no realistic use of 500hp continuously for most owners, things keep together. For a while. But it wouldn't last long on track. OEM engines should be able to run full power basically continuously, autobahn, on track etc in less than ideal atmospheric conditions. If you want more power in such conditions, you need to increase flow efficiency and/or cooling (more fuel if emissions go out the door only does so much). And forget about increasing power more than give or take 25% (unless the base engine was detuned - for real). Agreed. It's easy to take away the safety margin. The standard engine's tune fires a few degrees ATDC in the high load points. And then tuner X comes along, throws in more boost and more timing. Customer then accidentally fills up with 95, the ignition retarding runs out of adjustment and a ring land cracks.....or worse.
For me hardware always beats software... ideally the latter supports improvements in the former... So if I gave impression of something else, to be clear I do not 'recommend' running 500hp on a 2L and I very much respect the stance that Mountune takes.
Edited by Onehp on Tuesday 5th February 13:18
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