E400d 354bhp merc

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Discussion

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

35,142 posts

136 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
theboss said:
I think BMW have lost their way somewhat by omitting the higher output diesels from the UK range. I can understand them deciding it wasn’t worth selling the 550i here for the handful ever shifted but I see loads of 335d and 535d on the roads. Good to see MB filling the gap.
Yep.

It does appear now that in diesel technology rather than BMW leading the way Merc is followed by Saudi and BMW coming up last.
Take petrol engines too and the E63 trounced the BMW M5 (needing a bigger engine and still lower power) then when the new RS6 comes out it could be a mere 2.9v6 mega turbo engine.

BMW are falling being and essentially relying on an M5 engine that first saw light in 2011. Merc instead had the 6.2v8 followed by the 5.5v8 bi turbo and then a couple of iterations of the hot vee 4.0 V8 bi Turbo.
Latest M5 will keep the same sort of power plant for this generation which means the base engine in production forwhat 12-15years... not great.

yonex

12,968 posts

106 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
I’d rather have a lower powered BMW. which is actually half decent to drive, than the latest ‘thing’ from Audi/Mercedes.


Welshbeef

Original Poster:

35,142 posts

136 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
yonex said:
I’d rather have a lower powered BMW. which is actually half decent to drive, than the latest ‘thing’ from Audi/Mercedes.
The Latest 5 series E class and A6 are so similar in every practical way. These are mile munching barges period.

Could you post a formal link from say Eco/Autocar/Car/Driven etc which compares the 3 and outs the BMW ahead of the field

Croutons

2,895 posts

104 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Diesel sales down 38% last year. Before you’ve considered the exchange rate. Why would manufacturers bring out RHD specials just for us, “because it does 0-60 in 5 seconds”? There isn’t the volume.

No one is buying these dinosaurs new. Leasing them is not competitive because of the ste residuals.

Yet another thread where Welshy decides its Welshy’s opinion that matters, not reality.


Welshbeef

Original Poster:

35,142 posts

136 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Croutons said:
Diesel sales down 38% last year. Before you’ve considered the exchange rate. Why would manufacturers bring out RHD specials just for us, “because it does 0-60 in 5 seconds”? There isn’t the volume.

No one is buying these dinosaurs new. Leasing them is not competitive because of the ste residuals.

Yet another thread where Welshy decides its Welshy’s opinion that matters, not reality.
Stop pouncing on posters instead debate - which you did rightly, let down by the last bit.

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yonex

12,968 posts

106 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
The Latest 5 series E class and A6 are so similar in every practical way. These are mile munching barges period.

Could you post a formal link from say Eco/Autocar/Car/Driven etc which compares the 3 and outs the BMW ahead of the field
Couldn’t disagree more.

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

35,142 posts

136 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
yonex said:
Couldn’t disagree more.
Evidence v gut feeling

Exige77

3,190 posts

129 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
theboss said:
I think BMW have lost their way somewhat by omitting the higher output diesels from the UK range. I can understand them deciding it wasn’t worth selling the 550i here for the handful ever shifted but I see loads of 335d and 535d on the roads. Good to see MB filling the gap.
Yep.

It does appear now that in diesel technology rather than BMW leading the way Merc is followed by Saudi and BMW coming up last.
Take petrol engines too and the E63 trounced the BMW M5 (needing a bigger engine and still lower power) then when the new RS6 comes out it could be a mere 2.9v6 mega turbo engine.

BMW are falling being and essentially relying on an M5 engine that first saw light in 2011. Merc instead had the 6.2v8 followed by the 5.5v8 bi turbo and then a couple of iterations of the hot vee 4.0 V8 bi Turbo.
Latest M5 will keep the same sort of power plant for this generation which means the base engine in production forwhat 12-15years... not great.
Trounced ? roflroflrofl

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

35,142 posts

136 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
Trounced ? roflroflrofl
To buy new
261bhp v 354bhp 36% more power is like night and day.

The 535d trounced the 530d in the F10 which was a much smaller gap so this beast really does the business

Exige77

3,190 posts

129 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Exige77 said:
Trounced ? roflroflrofl
To buy new
261bhp v 354bhp 36% more power is like night and day.

The 535d trounced the 530d in the F10 which was a much smaller gap so this beast really does the business
You mentioned “trounced” with respect to another engine comparison.

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

35,142 posts

136 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
You mentioned “trounced” with respect to another engine comparison.
Yes latest M5 has 575bhp latest E63 has what 612bhp from a smaller capacity.

What am I missing?

aponting389

448 posts

116 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
Trounced ? roflroflrofl

he's ridiculous isnt he. just spouting rubbish. evertime I see a BMW thread I just know he's going to be on there waffling

gizlaroc

11,896 posts

162 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
I see Mercedes are still only offering black or brown interior options.

I would rather they offered their cars with nice light interiors rather than so many diesel engine options.

And some of their lovely petrol engines too.

The only petrol E Class estate offered in the UK are the AMG E53 or E63.

The E300 is a peach, the E400 is even sweeter.


My 61 plate, MY12, E350 petrol was an absolute gem of an engine. 306hp, used to average 30mpg just doing my usual nipping around and would see 36mpg easily on a fast run and nearer 40mpg if sat at 70mph.
Yet nothing has been offered since to replace it with.

I would like to see the calculated mpg figure for that E400d as well, the E350d I had before the E350 used to show 38mpg, but calculated it was 33mpg.
My C320cdi used to show 42mpg average, but calculated was 36mpg.
The way Merc OBC start at 45mpg from cold when you know there are doing 26-27 and then slowly go down over the next 10 miles or so, throws the OBC figures out badly unless you do lots of longer journeys all the time.

I should explain that better.
It starts at 45mpg from cold, if you only do say 4 miles, by the time you have stopped it is showing around 39mpg. If you do around 6 miles it is showing around 36mpg.
If you do 12 miles it is down to around 28mpg at which point it start to creep up again as the engine is getting up to temperature. Do 20 miles and it gets up to around 33mpg.
Do 40-50 miles and it will start to get to around 38mpg.

But as you can see, the fact it starts at 45mpg from cold throws it out, the shorter your journey the more the average is thrown out.

The petrol on the other hand starts at 14mpg and slowly creeps up, far more realistic.

Not everyone wants diesel, not everyone wants the full on sports model in a large luxury family estate.
Plus, their option packs are terrible!

Evo article said:
.........plump for the ‘Premium Plus’ package and the E400d will feel fully-loaded, with high-grade hifi, panoramic sunroof, excellent parking cameras and radars (very useful due to the significant dimensions) those Multi-beam LED headlights and more for a not-unreasonable £4390.
I don't like pano roofs, I don't want radar, I don't feel the need for a parking camera, but would like the better headlights and hifi.
Offering a set menu is fine, but don't stop offering the A La Carte options!


Mercedes UK have made some pretty crap decisions over the few years imho.

The whole UK line up is very blingy, with everything offered to either those that want AMG or the sales rep with the diesels and fake black leather.

But then you have the issue that the packs also put many of the cars over the magical £40k price point too.

All in all I do wonder who is making these decisions at Mercedes UK?

Edited by gizlaroc on Monday 11th February 09:45

aponting389

448 posts

116 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Yes latest M5 has 575bhp latest E63 has what 612bhp from a smaller capacity.

What am I missing?
the facts?

E63 563bhp
E63s 604hp

M5 592bhp
M5 Competition 616bhp

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

35,142 posts

136 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
aponting389 said:
Welshbeef said:
Yes latest M5 has 575bhp latest E63 has what 612bhp from a smaller capacity.

What am I missing?
the facts?

E63 563bhp
E63s 604hp

M5 592bhp
M5 Competition 616bhp
And
4.0 v 4.4ltr

Taking standard models the power per ltr is
Merc E63 140.75bhp/ltr
BMW M5 135.55bhp/ltr

So the Merc produces 5.3% more power per ltr - maybe trounced is a bit strong but beaten/lost is fair.

Monkeylegend

14,762 posts

169 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Isn’t it outputting similar to the BMW Aplina D5?

BMW offer Europe the 540d the M550d and the alpine D5.

U.K. get offered now 530d 261bhp.... my 8 year old F10 OE is 535d 300bhp and the run out versions were 313/318bhp what a massive setback.
The 540i is nice but as BMW are making the 540d and 550d surely the cost per unit would decrease if they offered it RHD (F10 couldn’t have M550d unit due to a shell design issue but the current 5 series doesn’t have that issue).
Good to see you still posting WB, thought you might have been sent to the naughty step after the vulva thread hehe

aponting389

448 posts

116 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
And
4.0 v 4.4ltr

Taking standard models the power per ltr is
Merc E63 140.75bhp/ltr
BMW M5 135.55bhp/ltr

So the Merc produces 5.3% more power per ltr - maybe trounced is a bit strong but beaten/lost is fair.
So? pretty sure 0% of buyers will be interested in your weird stats. I know i wasn't when i bought an M5. they are both very fast big saloon cars, one is a little stiffer and 'sporty', one a little more comfortable and soft. The M5 interior is nicer IMO. Anyway you drive a 9 year old diesel so why are you so bothered? doesn't appear like you're in the market for either!

Steven_RW

934 posts

140 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
TheDrBrian said:
Also why rev something 30% past its power peak?
Depends on the shape of the power curve. If it hits peak at 3600 but then near enough maintains a few bhp less than peak from there to rev limit, the total area under the graph could be higher if you stay in the upper rev band.

Some cars hit peak power and the power drops off like a rock, so you don't benefit from going past peak power. Others stay there or there abouts all the way to the eventual redline.

Modern turbo cars can often hit peak power relatively low (5k for a petrol) but then the power is held quite close to that peak power all the way to the rev limit.

RW

Edited by Steven_RW on Monday 11th February 10:00

Salmonofdoubt

368 posts

6 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
You’d be crazy to do that - buy it used in a few years from the main dealer with the OEM warranty it comes with. Buying it from eBay .... the price would have to be so low for any sane person to buy.
Yes because the second a car leaves the warm fuzzy confines of a main dealer network it becomes a ticking time bomb of doom.

Are you 12?

Cars get cheaper, it doesn't mean they're all going to die. If that was the case we would scrap everything that's done it's warranted miles and start again.

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

35,142 posts

136 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Monkeylegend said:
Welshbeef said:
Isn’t it outputting similar to the BMW Aplina D5?

BMW offer Europe the 540d the M550d and the alpine D5.

U.K. get offered now 530d 261bhp.... my 8 year old F10 OE is 535d 300bhp and the run out versions were 313/318bhp what a massive setback.
The 540i is nice but as BMW are making the 540d and 550d surely the cost per unit would decrease if they offered it RHD (F10 couldn’t have M550d unit due to a shell design issue but the current 5 series doesn’t have that issue).
Good to see you still posting WB, thought you might have been sent to the naughty step after the vulva thread hehe
I was very confused at that one - it’s headlines news on the guardian and yet PistonHeads have stricter rules.
The guardian did another article on Sunday - you can guess it was about peckers.