RE: Hyundai i30 N Fastback vs Skoda Octavia vRS 245
Discussion
thiscocks said:
kambites said:
Nerdherder said:
Jesus, those kerb weights.
Do you think they're unexpectedly high or low? 1445kg EU sounds amazingly light for a modern car that size to me; I thought the Octavia was heavier. The Hyundai is about what I'd have expected. I'm not a big fan of big hot hatches but these both appeal in their own ways.
Talking of boot space, the Hyundai has 450 litres, which is last-gen 3-series territory, so not exactly small. I'd be stunned if a 'young family' actually needed more than that* unless they've got 2 kids under 2 or are the sort of middle-class PITAs that absolutely have to take everything with them...
* More than e.g. 2-3 times a year, that is.
havoc said:
I suppose it's the way of modern cars. My 10y.o. Civic saloon (same sort of size as these) is c.1,270kg. With similar bhp/tonne and similar boot-space / rear seat space. But a lot less toys...
Assuming that's kerb weight it's only about 50kg lighter than the Skoda. 50kg for the massive increases in safety and equipment of a modern car sounds pretty good to me. 
JMF894 said:
This whole practicality thing is being bounced about a bit too much I think. I accept different people lead different lives which require different things but back in 2008 we had a MK1 Octy vRS hatch and 3 young boys: a 1 year old, a 5 year old and a 7 year old. We managed with that car for 5 years and the only time things got a bit fiddly was when strapping in 2/3 child seats required a specific order of operation.
Would you rather enjoy the car 80% of the time and have to faff a little 20% of the time when family duties called or would you rather have an easy life 20% of the time and tolerate a car you don't really need 80% of the time?
I agree. I used to have a 2+2 fastback when my little one was still in nappies, as he was a bit older a 2+2 coupe, and the a proper 4 seater with an RX8, the rear doors where superb for access to the child seats and boot more than big enough. I think it's parents choosing the wrong items to put in cars. I never once struggled for room.Would you rather enjoy the car 80% of the time and have to faff a little 20% of the time when family duties called or would you rather have an easy life 20% of the time and tolerate a car you don't really need 80% of the time?
Scottie - NW said:
I agree. I used to have a 2+2 fastback when my little one was still in nappies, as he was a bit older a 2+2 coupe, and the a proper 4 seater with an RX8, the rear doors where superb for access to the child seats and boot more than big enough. I think it's parents choosing the wrong items to put in cars. I never once struggled for room.
I've regularly used my Elise to cart around our daughter from birth to her current five years old but that doesn't mean the Octavia isn't considerably more convenient! 
Scottie - NW said:
JMF894 said:
This whole practicality thing is being bounced about a bit too much I think. I accept different people lead different lives which require different things but back in 2008 we had a MK1 Octy vRS hatch and 3 young boys: a 1 year old, a 5 year old and a 7 year old. We managed with that car for 5 years and the only time things got a bit fiddly was when strapping in 2/3 child seats required a specific order of operation.
Would you rather enjoy the car 80% of the time and have to faff a little 20% of the time when family duties called or would you rather have an easy life 20% of the time and tolerate a car you don't really need 80% of the time?
I agree. I used to have a 2+2 fastback when my little one was still in nappies, as he was a bit older a 2+2 coupe, and the a proper 4 seater with an RX8, the rear doors where superb for access to the child seats and boot more than big enough. I think it's parents choosing the wrong items to put in cars. I never once struggled for room.Would you rather enjoy the car 80% of the time and have to faff a little 20% of the time when family duties called or would you rather have an easy life 20% of the time and tolerate a car you don't really need 80% of the time?
But modern isofix bases are a pain if you’re tall, forcing the front seats forward.
kambites said:
I've experienced bad German cars... that doesn't mean German cars are bad. Each to their own but it seems utterly bizarre to me to discount an entire nation's products just because of one bad experience in the past.
I'll rephrase it, I'm yet to travel in a Korean car that I haven't thought "God this is cheap and nasty" excluding the Terracan Humans are definitely gases. My old 7 seater was packed to the gunwhales on the annual holiday 2 years ago. Last year's holiday the current 5 seat estate was fairly well packed as well, but we just took less.
I would just get a roofrack for the hatch (or the fastback, depending on aperture size), as the rest of the time I only need to fit a wheelchair in the boot and a child seat in the back - at the very most. One of the reasons I downsized to the estate was because I felt like an arse driving around with 6 empty seats on my commute...
I would just get a roofrack for the hatch (or the fastback, depending on aperture size), as the rest of the time I only need to fit a wheelchair in the boot and a child seat in the back - at the very most. One of the reasons I downsized to the estate was because I felt like an arse driving around with 6 empty seats on my commute...
I'm on my third Octy vRS, having had all three Marks. I like how they drive, feel, and the space in the cabin and boot. Especially the boot. It makes life so much easier not having to worry about how we're going to fit stuff in, it just fits.
My current 230, while not disappointing, hasn't grabbed me the way the first two did, but I still can't see past it for all round practicality, and it can still make me smile when I left the reins off. I expect to get another one when my current lease expires in August.
My current 230, while not disappointing, hasn't grabbed me the way the first two did, but I still can't see past it for all round practicality, and it can still make me smile when I left the reins off. I expect to get another one when my current lease expires in August.
Ive just handed back a Diesel VRS after 4 yrs & 140k miles. Loved it / was remapped and got 65mpg constantly. Couldn't find anything better in the class to replace it. Now got a brand new petrol 245bhp version and done 4,000 miles in a month. Love it. Already can get 46mpg on a run at 72mph.
The car just does everything so well - its quick, comfortable, practical and looks great. I'm 6'4" and at a festival last year I folded the back seats down and slept in it.
However it's only a 7 tenths performance car so for the weekends and full on pleasure I used to have Evo's / more recently Audi S1 but now RS4 B7.
The car just does everything so well - its quick, comfortable, practical and looks great. I'm 6'4" and at a festival last year I folded the back seats down and slept in it.
However it's only a 7 tenths performance car so for the weekends and full on pleasure I used to have Evo's / more recently Audi S1 but now RS4 B7.
g7jhp said:
Skoda Octavia vRS are great cars I suggested by Dad might look at one.
He went and bought one exactly like this...it's stunning and he loves the Rallye Green colour!
Do like it in that colour, mine has got a stage 1 remap on it (revo) - really does give it a nice turn of speed once it's up and running. I came from an Audi S4, to be honest there's not a huge difference in power.He went and bought one exactly like this...it's stunning and he loves the Rallye Green colour!
As stated above, it's all about where you want to be on the family car vs fun spectrum.
Given that the load bay of my Octavia estate has doubled as a change mat for a toddler's nappy today, it's hard to look beyond that. (The rubber boot mat is definitely recommended. )
I for one would be less worried for Skoda's market share until/unless there's an estate variant. If Hyundai bring one out, then that could be very interesting.
I imagine that the Mk4 (or if it's too late, then the Mk5) vRS might be more interesting in light of new competition, much like the Mk5 Golf GTi got a kick up the arse during its development by the Mk4's failure to compete with the Focus.
Given that the load bay of my Octavia estate has doubled as a change mat for a toddler's nappy today, it's hard to look beyond that. (The rubber boot mat is definitely recommended.
)I for one would be less worried for Skoda's market share until/unless there's an estate variant. If Hyundai bring one out, then that could be very interesting.
I imagine that the Mk4 (or if it's too late, then the Mk5) vRS might be more interesting in light of new competition, much like the Mk5 Golf GTi got a kick up the arse during its development by the Mk4's failure to compete with the Focus.
kambites said:
havoc said:
I suppose it's the way of modern cars. My 10y.o. Civic saloon (same sort of size as these) is c.1,270kg. With similar bhp/tonne and similar boot-space / rear seat space. But a lot less toys...
Assuming that's kerb weight it's only about 50kg lighter than the Skoda. 50kg for the massive increases in safety and equipment of a modern car sounds pretty good to me. 1,270kg is old-style kerb weight ( = driver + 90% fuel), and I've just realised the new "EU" weight excludes the fuel*. So 175kg quoted difference + fuel adjustment = >200kg real-world difference. Closer to 300kg for the Hyundai!
I nearly had a pre-facelift vRS230 (i.e. almost the same car) to replace the Civic - leased for 2 weeks then rejected based on fuel economy - real-world economy (OK, tight engine but still) was ~31-33mpg combined vs 48mpg advertised. UK Civic is advertised as 36-37mpg combined and I was getting 30-32mpg from an import. So minimal saving so no point leasing the Octavia (for me, at least).
Anyway, point is that the Octavia both is and felt like a much heavier car. Bloody 19"s weigh a ton too...
PS - really wanted the 230 for the diff (which turned out to be pretty crap as per the article) and extra kit, but loved the green in the pic above. Skoda wouldn't budge...230 had to come in one of the limited colours and had to have the 19"s.
* Lovely how the legislators move the goalposts to help mfrs claim weight reductions, eh?
I did look at the Octavia as a family wagon but ended up with the slightly smaller Focus ST estate, which is more fun in a sort of blue collar more raucous and rough around the edges way, which is probably a bit similar to the Hyundai. The boot is fine but the rear seats are quite tight so not the outright practical choice that I might reconsider if choosing again.
There's a new interesting Kia Proceed GT - shooting brake style. It could be a similar rival to these two, but a bit down on power (just over 200bhp) and dual clutch auto only...
There's a new interesting Kia Proceed GT - shooting brake style. It could be a similar rival to these two, but a bit down on power (just over 200bhp) and dual clutch auto only...
JMF894 said:
Would you rather enjoy the car 80% of the time and have to faff a little 20% of the time when family duties called or would you rather have an easy life 20% of the time and tolerate a car you don't really need 80% of the time?
Sounds great but if for that 20% you've got your wife / kids moaning at you 'cos the car is too small, too stiff etc then i'd argue that this 20% is worth more than the other 80.. havoc said:
I nearly had a pre-facelift vRS230 (i.e. almost the same car) to replace the Civic - leased for 2 weeks then rejected based on fuel economy - real-world economy (OK, tight engine but still) was ~31-33mpg combined vs 48mpg advertised.
I did 80k miles in my pre-facelift vRS230, averaged 34mpg or thereabouts. Not bad for the performance but yes its a long way off the advertised figures.rob.e said:
JMF894 said:
Would you rather enjoy the car 80% of the time and have to faff a little 20% of the time when family duties called or would you rather have an easy life 20% of the time and tolerate a car you don't really need 80% of the time?
Sounds great but if for that 20% you've got your wife / kids moaning at you 'cos the car is too small, too stiff etc then i'd argue that this 20% is worth more than the other 80.. havoc said:
Talking of boot space, the Hyundai has 450 litres, which is last-gen 3-series territory, so not exactly small. I'd be stunned if a 'young family' actually needed more than that* unless they've got 2 kids under 2 or are the sort of middle-class PITAs that absolutely have to take everything with them...
* More than e.g. 2-3 times a year, that is.
Not quite sure how this has degenerated into an argument about class, or indeed how the contents of another's boot constitute a P in your A but whatever. The Hyundai sits at 450, usefully more than a Golf at 380 but significantly less than an Octavia at 590. * More than e.g. 2-3 times a year, that is.
Now, consider the situation where you've got a child under the age of six months plus one around 3 - 4 yrs. Not an unusual demographic for the UK. And you have a set, maybe two, of grandparents that live far enough away that you're going to want to stay overnight, maybe monthly. A pram suitable for a newborn would pretty much fill the Golf's boot on its own. Then you've got a travel cot, bedding, maybe a sterilizer, a buggy for the other child, before you get to the rest of your luggage. All of this stuff is bulky, and getting it all to fit into the Hyundai, even if it would fit, is the PITA bit when you're late and the six month old is having a meltdown because it's been in the car seat too long without moving. In the Octavia you just chuck it in and go. So it's a major consideration if you're making a buying decision at that point in your family's life and the needs of your family need to be balanced with those of yourself as an enthusiastic driver.
Once you move past that, sure, the Hyundai is doable as a family car but I'd still say it's a bit on the small side if you regularly go on holiday with your car. People managed in the past - we fitted in a B2 Audi 80 Sport, but my sister and I were usually sat on crates of Kronenberg on the way home...
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