RE: Jeep Wrangler: UK Drive

[loveice]

Price aside, again it shows ladder chassis combined with solid axles (at least at the rear in G-Class and LC-200/150 cases) and mechanical diff-locks still has a market, maybe not in the UK or Western Europe, but the world is bigger than just the UK and Western Europe!

LC200/150, G-Class, Jimny and now the all new Wrangler, in this country people still think it’s ok for the next Defender to have a monocoque chassis with all around independent suspension and electronic aided 4wd system?

[300bhp/ton]

dvs_dave said:

swisstoni said:

EU charge 10% on US car imports.
US charge 2.5% on cars coming the other way.

A certain D Trump has threatened to shake that up a tadge by shifting the decimal point one place to the right.

And also consider that when looking at US prices, they don’t include local sales tax/VAT which is usually not far off the 10% mark. UK prices are shown inclusive of 20% VAT. So US prices will appear deceptively cheap, and of course also don’t include a 10% import duty as it’s not applicable.

If you want to compare the US price to what it should be in the the U.K., add 30% to the US price for what it will be in the U.K. These prices are in line with that so the only ripping off going on is the various taxes and duties being added on top of what is actually a reasonably priced vehicle in its home market.

For me it’s more about comparing prices of several items. As referenced earlier. You could buy a Porsche Boxster for the same money as the Jeep in the UK. Or two Fiesta ST’s and 5k in your pocket.

I’m sure in the US the Jeep is pitched quite differently.

[cailean]

Seriously silly pricing. Why no mention of the LS Utility or new Shogun Sport (available on AT for just north of 30k and comes with rear diff lock)? I am yet to see any these on the roads (Jimny, Wrangler, Shogun Sport, LC Utility).

[cati]

I test drive a rubicon during launch week. I was up for buying it this until he mentioned the price.

We are trying to take jeep upmarket mate says the sales guy. I said well start calling me sir then and I would change the name from jeep.

Seems they just want to raise the prices. Seriously nice car, but not 50k nice. You could buy a year old x5 for that kind of money . Seat five and have rear room. Sales guys says but it would be no good off road.

I replied who in their right mind is going to take a50k car off road.

Seriously their marketing guys need a good talking too

[gruffgriff]

fernando the frog said:

Why do the doors look all dented? Sort of see it on the yellow one too

While idly gazing about waiting at the lights I noted the three outside my local Chrysler dealer had the same Defender charm of buckled flat panel doors. I assumed too much aggression had been used applying the promo vinyl lettering to the door of the first but noted the other undecorated ones were similarly afflicted. Then spied the window sticker price of 45k! Wow.
Learned from this thread they are brand new models!

[Mort7]

Worth remembering that the Wrangler doesn't have full-time 4x4 (unlike the Defender), with a diff in the transfer case. The Command-Trac part-time 4x4 (in both high and low ratio) is designed for off-road use on slippery surfaces only, as the transfer case locks the front and rear axles so they turn at the same speed. If you use 4x4 on road you'll get axle wind-up and unpredictable handling. The only on-road setting is 2wd through the rear wheels.

[JNR77]

I quite fancy one of these and agree with the comments on price, I have been following them on auto trader,there were plenty of ex demos available at dealers from £35k, less so now but I bet you could get some discount. Also worth bearing in mind the older shape always held its value well.

Look what people are prepared to pay for defenders which have been tarted up by twisted, over finch, bespoke etc now matter how much leather the clad the interior in they are still uncomfortable death traps. Makes them look cheap in comparison.

It’s the car many people hoped the defender will be, my fear the new defender will be style over substance based on the old disco with loads of electronics and tech that doesn’t work!

[skyrover]

Overpriced.

But it will hoover up sales land rover have foolishly thrown away.

Despite what some on here say, there is still a huge market for a proper no nonsense, ladder chassis, live axled 4x4.

[lady topaz]

Well to go against most on here, we bought one last week. Collect it on 7th March



Its a petrol Overland and contrary to what a poster previously mentioned it comes with the new electric roof which is available, making it easy for me without having to remove roof panels. This one is, according to the dealer, only one of three with the electric roof in the UK. The next ones wont be here until September.


Now, before everyone screams re the colour. We couldn't live with Mojito every day in England but we are driving it to Greece where anything goes.

Also we can drive it deconstructed if we want without fear of getting pulled.

There is also an underlying practical reason for getting this.

Last year the roads around where our house is situated were twice washed away in floods. Our friends were stranded at their house for three days.

The Jeep would have coped admirably with this. Also there are many mountain roads around us which are virtually impassable in anything other than a rugged 4x4.

Expensive, undoubtedly, but we like the eccentricity of it. Won't see many of these in our backwater village, that's for sure.

We are running it here in England for a couple of thousand miles to hopefully iron out any niggles before departing for Greece where it will remain for 6 months.

It will also save us €3,000 in car hire over the summer.

[KTF]

Is it going to be parked off road in Greece as (based on my experience) the natives don't exactly care about keeping their cars free of marks and dents.

[MajorMantra]

Mort7 said:

Worth remembering that the Wrangler doesn't have full-time 4x4 (unlike the Defender), with a diff in the transfer case. The Command-Trac part-time 4x4 (in both high and low ratio) is designed for off-road use on slippery surfaces only, as the transfer case locks the front and rear axles so they turn at the same speed. If you use 4x4 on road you'll get axle wind-up and unpredictable handling. The only on-road setting is 2wd through the rear wheels.

So you don't get any of the benefits of a modern AWD system, which can distribute power and torque as needed and potentially get you out of trouble when the driving god mask slips?

[lady topaz]

KTF said:

Is it going to be parked off road in Greece as (based on my experience) the natives don't exactly care about keeping their cars free of marks and dents.

We have our own large parking area to the front of our house and we are getting a builder mate to put up a carport to protect it from the weather.

[Ed/L152]

Mort7 said:

Worth remembering that the Wrangler doesn't have full-time 4x4 (unlike the Defender), with a diff in the transfer case. The Command-Trac part-time 4x4 (in both high and low ratio) is designed for off-road use on slippery surfaces only, as the transfer case locks the front and rear axles so they turn at the same speed. If you use 4x4 on road you'll get axle wind-up and unpredictable handling. The only on-road setting is 2wd through the rear wheels.

I think a 4hi auto selec-trac transfer box might be an option. Not sure of it's availability in the UK though.

[300bhp/ton]

MajorMantra said:

Mort7 said:

Worth remembering that the Wrangler doesn't have full-time 4x4 (unlike the Defender), with a diff in the transfer case. The Command-Trac part-time 4x4 (in both high and low ratio) is designed for off-road use on slippery surfaces only, as the transfer case locks the front and rear axles so they turn at the same speed. If you use 4x4 on road you'll get axle wind-up and unpredictable handling. The only on-road setting is 2wd through the rear wheels.

So you don't get any of the benefits of a modern AWD system, which can distribute power and torque as needed and potentially get you out of trouble when the driving god mask slips?

This depends what you mean by distribute power and torque. For road use most cars have ESP which will generally just brake a spinning wheel. They don't as a rule give you active yaw control or send power to different wheels.

Off road some of the systems make better use of traction systems to keep all 4 wheels spinning.

The Wrangler has ESP and also 4 wheel traction control. As well as an optional rear LSD unless it's a Rubicon where it has lockable front/rear diffs.

Wiki says:

"The vehicle is offered with three different four-wheel drive systems: Command-Trac, Selec-Trac and Rock-Trac."

Selec-Trac has a centre diff. However for the UK market I have no idea what of the above options are really available.


That said, most "traditional 4x4's" usually only have a simple transfer case to allow 2wd/4wd with no centre diff. Such as the new Jimny and many pickup trucks. It was also common in other Jap 4x4's although not sure what they use these days.

The Land Rover Defender was actually rather oddball that it had a centre diff. And this was pretty much by accident and a result of something else. When LR were developing the Range Rover before it's 1970 launch, LR realised the old "Rover P4 car axles" weren't up to the task of handling the low power Rover V8, as the axles at the time had only been used with a 70hp engine in the Series Land Rover.

Their solution was, rather than build a new axle that could handle the power and torque, it was far cheaper to add a centre diff and split the torque 50:50 front/rear, therefore allowing the car axles to be retained.

[skyrover]

300bhp/ton said:

The Land Rover Defender was actually rather oddball that it had a centre diff. And this was pretty much by accident and a result of something else. When LR were developing the Range Rover before it's 1970 launch, LR realised the old "Rover P4 car axles" weren't up to the task of handling the low power Rover V8, as the axles at the time had only been used with a 70hp engine in the Series Land Rover.

Their solution was, rather than build a new axle that could handle the power and torque, it was far cheaper to add a centre diff and split the torque 50:50 front/rear, therefore allowing the car axles to be retained.

... at which point marketing took over and it was branded as a "feature"

[Fire99]

lady topaz said:

Well to go against most on here, we bought one last week. Collect it on 7th March

I don't care if you bought it to use as a park bench... That looks ace.. Good choice.

[swisstoni]

Fire99 said:

lady topaz said:

Well to go against most on here, we bought one last week. Collect it on 7th March

I don't care if you bought it to use as a park bench... That looks ace.. Good choice.

If that's in Slough Jeep then I think I have seen that car. Excellent colour.

[Mort7]

MajorMantra said:

Mort7 said:

Worth remembering that the Wrangler doesn't have full-time 4x4 (unlike the Defender), with a diff in the transfer case. The Command-Trac part-time 4x4 (in both high and low ratio) is designed for off-road use on slippery surfaces only, as the transfer case locks the front and rear axles so they turn at the same speed. If you use 4x4 on road you'll get axle wind-up and unpredictable handling. The only on-road setting is 2wd through the rear wheels.

So you don't get any of the benefits of a modern AWD system, which can distribute power and torque as needed and potentially get you out of trouble when the driving god mask slips?

Correct. The NP231 transfer case, as fitted to the Wrangler, does not have a centre diff. The NP242 transfer case, as fitted to (for example) the Cherokee 4.0 XJ, and 3.7 KJ, does have a centre diff, so 4wd can be used on road. They are pretty much a straight swap, so I don't understand why Jeep don't just standardise on a version of the NP242.

That said, Wranglers are amazingly capable off-road, and the electronic wizardry which is now fitted as standard (and which accounts for much of the price) means that owners who are not trained in off-road driving can still manage in quite challenging conditions.

I prefer the purity of my old 2004 Wrangler TJ auto, which I owned for 6 years, modified extensively, and regularly drove off-road as a hobby. Even with the addition of a suspension lift, larger off-road biased tyres, skid plates, armoured bumpers and side bars, snorkel, anti-roll bar disconnects, air lockers, etc, etc, it still came out cheaper at today's prices than the current Wrangler with all its electronics. You had to think about every obstacle before tackling it, but that was half the fun.

[300bhp/ton]

Mort7 said:

MajorMantra said:

Mort7 said:

Worth remembering that the Wrangler doesn't have full-time 4x4 (unlike the Defender), with a diff in the transfer case. The Command-Trac part-time 4x4 (in both high and low ratio) is designed for off-road use on slippery surfaces only, as the transfer case locks the front and rear axles so they turn at the same speed. If you use 4x4 on road you'll get axle wind-up and unpredictable handling. The only on-road setting is 2wd through the rear wheels.

So you don't get any of the benefits of a modern AWD system, which can distribute power and torque as needed and potentially get you out of trouble when the driving god mask slips?

Correct. The NP231 transfer case, as fitted to the Wrangler, does not have a centre diff. The NP242 transfer case, as fitted to (for example) the Cherokee 4.0 XJ, and 3.7 KJ, does have a centre diff, so 4wd can be used on road. They are pretty much a straight swap, so I don't understand why Jeep don't just standardise on a version of the NP242.

That said, Wranglers are amazingly capable off-road, and the electronic wizardry which is now fitted as standard (and which accounts for much of the price) means that owners who are not trained in off-road driving can still manage in quite challenging conditions.

I prefer the purity of my old 2004 Wrangler TJ auto, which I owned for 6 years, modified extensively, and regularly drove off-road as a hobby. Even with the addition of a suspension lift, larger off-road biased tyres, skid plates, armoured bumpers and side bars, snorkel, anti-roll bar disconnects, air lockers, etc, etc, it still came out cheaper at today's prices than the current Wrangler with all its electronics. You had to think about every obstacle before tackling it, but that was half the fun.

As said above, 3 different transfer cases are offered on the JL, but I don't know what the UK models have or if there is a choice.

https://www.jeep.com/wrangler/capability.html

Jeep said:

The Selec-Trac® 4x4 System features a full-time mode that will automatically switch from 2WD to 4WD when conditions dictate. Relying on internal wheel speed and traction control sensors, Selec-Trac makes driving in uneven terrains and inclement weather safer and smoother while delivering superior efficiency when four-wheel drive isn’t needed.

[Robocop2]

As so many have said, the Wrangler is way overpriced in the UK by at least £10k. Just to put into perspective how Jeep prices have risen over the years, I bought a new Wrangler TJ Sahara 4.0 litre two door in 1997 at a list price of about £18k. At that time a new BMW 528i listed at about £34k. Current prices for a BMW 530i seem about the same as a Wrangler!

I’d been interested in a Rubicon model, but delving into the European spec, it appears the model available here has slightly smaller tyres (32” rather than 33”), lacks the higher front fenders to accommodate up to 35” tyres without modification, and has the ugly, protruding front bumper that I couldn’t live with. Talk about rub salt into the wound!

I’m simply not prepared to pay the prices asked by Jeep, though inevitably there will be a small number of buyers who will accept it because of the uniqueness of the vehicle. I’m at a loss, however, to see how Jeep expect to significantly grow sales in the UK.