mandatory speed limiters to be fitted from 2022?
Discussion
charltjr said:
It never was happening, the speed limiter thing was click bait from the start.
“ The Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA) system could reduce fatalities on EU roads by 20%, according to estimates. “ISA will provide a driver with feedback, based on maps and road sign observation, always when speed limit is exceeded. We do not introduce a speed limiter, but an intelligent system which will make drivers fully aware when they're over speeding. This will not only make all of us safer, but also help drivers to avoid speeding tickets”, Ms Thun said.”
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/...
The relevant legislation also defines ISA as “ intelligent speed assistance means a system to aid the driver in maintaining the appropriate speed for the road environment by providing dedicated and appropriate feedback”
Nothing about a limiter there either.
Pull your head out of the sand and accept that new cars will have their top speed limited in future.“ The Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA) system could reduce fatalities on EU roads by 20%, according to estimates. “ISA will provide a driver with feedback, based on maps and road sign observation, always when speed limit is exceeded. We do not introduce a speed limiter, but an intelligent system which will make drivers fully aware when they're over speeding. This will not only make all of us safer, but also help drivers to avoid speeding tickets”, Ms Thun said.”
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/...
The relevant legislation also defines ISA as “ intelligent speed assistance means a system to aid the driver in maintaining the appropriate speed for the road environment by providing dedicated and appropriate feedback”
Nothing about a limiter there either.
A quick paraphrase.
Nobody needs an AK-47 to go hunting
Nobody needs a 200 mph car or bike to go to the supermarket.
The only place for an AK-47 is on the battlefield
The only place for a 200 mph car or bike is on the racetrack.
Common sense legislation would ban the ownership of an AK-47
Common sense legislation would ban the ownership of a 200 mph car or bike.
If banning the ownership of an AK-47 saves the life of just one child, it's worth it.
If banning the ownership of a 200 mph car or bike saves the life of just one child, it's worth it.
NMNeil said:
charltjr said:
It never was happening, the speed limiter thing was click bait from the start.
“ The Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA) system could reduce fatalities on EU roads by 20%, according to estimates. “ISA will provide a driver with feedback, based on maps and road sign observation, always when speed limit is exceeded. We do not introduce a speed limiter, but an intelligent system which will make drivers fully aware when they're over speeding. This will not only make all of us safer, but also help drivers to avoid speeding tickets”, Ms Thun said.”
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/...
The relevant legislation also defines ISA as “ intelligent speed assistance means a system to aid the driver in maintaining the appropriate speed for the road environment by providing dedicated and appropriate feedback”
Nothing about a limiter there either.
Pull your head out of the sand and accept that new cars will have their top speed limited in future.“ The Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA) system could reduce fatalities on EU roads by 20%, according to estimates. “ISA will provide a driver with feedback, based on maps and road sign observation, always when speed limit is exceeded. We do not introduce a speed limiter, but an intelligent system which will make drivers fully aware when they're over speeding. This will not only make all of us safer, but also help drivers to avoid speeding tickets”, Ms Thun said.”
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/...
The relevant legislation also defines ISA as “ intelligent speed assistance means a system to aid the driver in maintaining the appropriate speed for the road environment by providing dedicated and appropriate feedback”
Nothing about a limiter there either.
A quick paraphrase.
Nobody needs an AK-47 to go hunting
Nobody needs a 200 mph car or bike to go to the supermarket.
The only place for an AK-47 is on the battlefield
The only place for a 200 mph car or bike is on the racetrack.
Common sense legislation would ban the ownership of an AK-47
Common sense legislation would ban the ownership of a 200 mph car or bike.
If banning the ownership of an AK-47 saves the life of just one child, it's worth it.
If banning the ownership of a 200 mph car or bike saves the life of just one child, it's worth it.
Thankfully, like now, the aftermarket will work a way around any problem - already speed limiters can be removed and systems can be bypassed - worst case, the same will happen (or "modern classics" become more valuable).
NMNeil said:
Pull your head out of the sand and accept that new cars will have their top speed limited in future.
A quick paraphrase.
Nobody needs an AK-47 to go hunting
Nobody needs a 200 mph car or bike to go to the supermarket.
The only place for an AK-47 is on the battlefield
The only place for a 200 mph car or bike is on the racetrack.
Common sense legislation would ban the ownership of an AK-47
Common sense legislation would ban the ownership of a 200 mph car or bike.
If banning the ownership of an AK-47 saves the life of just one child, it's worth it.
If banning the ownership of a 200 mph car or bike saves the life of just one child, it's worth it.
Apart from the fact your paraphrase doesn't actually work, I see your point. You think if the UK can ban assault rifles from public use, they can ban fast cars.A quick paraphrase.
Nobody needs an AK-47 to go hunting
Nobody needs a 200 mph car or bike to go to the supermarket.
The only place for an AK-47 is on the battlefield
The only place for a 200 mph car or bike is on the racetrack.
Common sense legislation would ban the ownership of an AK-47
Common sense legislation would ban the ownership of a 200 mph car or bike.
If banning the ownership of an AK-47 saves the life of just one child, it's worth it.
If banning the ownership of a 200 mph car or bike saves the life of just one child, it's worth it.
But you've missed one crucial aspect. The Ak47 is a weapon of war. It has ONE function. To kill people. It's design parameters were easy and cheap to manufacture along with functional and robust. It isn't very accurate either. Pretty much the opposite of any 200mph car.
The AK's main point, that makes it instantly recognisable, is the long curving magazine. That wasn't even part of Kalashnikov's design. That was put in to ensure soldiers of the glorious Red Army couldn't lie down to shoot.
So overall, the Ak47 is a terrible simile to use, as is any assault rifle.
Imagine if you will, a system that flexes depending which Country you are in. Inn Germany, on the Autobahn, no one around? Is 200 mph legal and safe to do? Off you go Madam, fill your boots.
But then you drive back to the UK and you ask "is it legal to do 200mph here?" and the answer is no. Is it morally wrong to do 200mph here? Yes. Therefore you don't.
And everyone is given exactly the same information, at the same time.
Easy.
Neat.
No one is mistaken.
System isn't full proof, it can be manually over ridden. But on the whole it could work for majority of drivers.
If only such a system existed. Maybe using signs on the road that tell you how fast you can go? And if those signs existed anyway, you wouldn't have to do anything. Sigh, but such a Utopia doesn't exist so we have to continue with our guess the speed you are allowed to drive at system until someone changes it.
RSTurboPaul said:
cibble10 said:
charltjr said:
It never was happening, the speed limiter thing was click bait from the start.
“ The Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA) system could reduce fatalities on EU roads by 20%, according to estimates. “ISA will provide a driver with feedback, based on maps and road sign observation, always when speed limit is exceeded. We do not introduce a speed limiter, but an intelligent system which will make drivers fully aware when they're over speeding. This will not only make all of us safer, but also help drivers to avoid speeding tickets”, Ms Thun said.”
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/...
The relevant legislation also defines ISA as “ intelligent speed assistance means a system to aid the driver in maintaining the appropriate speed for the road environment by providing dedicated and appropriate feedback”
Nothing about a limiter there either.
This sounds like the system used in taxis in Dubai. Your in car screen bleeps and warns you that you are speeding. You get a few quick on screen reminders then you are told a speeding ticket is being issued. No limiter or intervention, and presumably excessive tickets lead to a ban. “ The Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA) system could reduce fatalities on EU roads by 20%, according to estimates. “ISA will provide a driver with feedback, based on maps and road sign observation, always when speed limit is exceeded. We do not introduce a speed limiter, but an intelligent system which will make drivers fully aware when they're over speeding. This will not only make all of us safer, but also help drivers to avoid speeding tickets”, Ms Thun said.”
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/...
The relevant legislation also defines ISA as “ intelligent speed assistance means a system to aid the driver in maintaining the appropriate speed for the road environment by providing dedicated and appropriate feedback”
Nothing about a limiter there either.
irocfan said:
I seem to recall (whether on this thread or another about the same issue) that there were quite a few saying that this was pure tin-foil hattery and it would never happen....
Next they will be telling us that it will never be released without an off switch, crazy tin foil hat guys.TX.
Projectblue51 said:
Apart from the fact your paraphrase doesn't actually work, I see your point. You think if the UK can ban assault rifles from public use, they can ban fast cars.
Imagine if you will, a system that flexes depending which Country you are in. Inn Germany, on the Autobahn, no one around? Is 200 mph legal and safe to do? Off you go Madam, fill your boots.
The autobahn justification may be coming to an end very soon. Imagine if you will, a system that flexes depending which Country you are in. Inn Germany, on the Autobahn, no one around? Is 200 mph legal and safe to do? Off you go Madam, fill your boots.
https://fortune.com/2020/03/07/germany-autobahn-sp...
As for the many PH posters who glibly say "I'll just have the system disabled", do they honestly believe that this hasn't already been addressed by the chip makers.
I believe that it will be standard practice for the police to access the 'black box' at any accident where speed is an issue. maybe it will be automatically checked for at the MOT test. If it's been tampered with, then the insurance is void, it fails the MOT, and there's a good chance the vehicle owner will be up in court with the possibility that the car will be off to the crusher.
The whole concept of the system is that if someone with a 200 mph car can't be trusted with it, it gets taken away. And nobody buys a 200 mph to go to the supermarket, they bought it so they could break the laws in the UK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvipX5qlTwU
NMNeil said:
And nobody buys a 200 mph to go to the supermarket, they bought it so they could break the laws in the UK.
What absolute and total b
ks, you need to give your head a shake make and lay off the funny cigs and/or booze. There's some ste spouted on forums but that statement is up with themEdited by irocfan on Tuesday 13th April 18:32
NMNeil said:
Projectblue51 said:
Apart from the fact your paraphrase doesn't actually work, I see your point. You think if the UK can ban assault rifles from public use, they can ban fast cars.
Imagine if you will, a system that flexes depending which Country you are in. Inn Germany, on the Autobahn, no one around? Is 200 mph legal and safe to do? Off you go Madam, fill your boots.
As for the many PH posters who glibly say "I'll just have the system disabled", do they honestly believe that this hasn't already been addressed by the chip makers.Imagine if you will, a system that flexes depending which Country you are in. Inn Germany, on the Autobahn, no one around? Is 200 mph legal and safe to do? Off you go Madam, fill your boots.
I believe that it will be standard practice for the police to access the 'black box' at any accident where speed is an issue. maybe it will be automatically checked for at the MOT test. If it's been tampered with, then the insurance is void, it fails the MOT, and there's a good chance the vehicle owner will be up in court with the possibility that the car will be off to the crusher.
The whole concept of the system is that if someone with a 200 mph car can't be trusted with it, it gets taken away. And nobody buys a 200 mph to go to the supermarket, they bought it so they could break the laws in the UK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvipX5qlTwU
kiethton said:
But look at what happens already - de-cat pipes, EGR deletes, re-map's - when each new model is released remaps aren't available for ~6 months until somebody cracks the code, this will be no different...
They can do all those things because nobody knows about it. That won't be the case in future.You don't think that the ISA system simply uses a GPS signal, and a camera reads the speed sign?
It's 2 way communication with traffic lights, roadside signs and possibly the police if the system shows if the system has been tampered with or you're speeding or have run a red light.
And before you negate that idea
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7373639/M...
https://www.auto-talks.com/v2i-vehicle-to-infrastr...
It's funny how many posters are going to such lengths to denounce a system designed for improve road safety and vowing to remove it at the earliest opportunity.
NMNeil said:
kiethton said:
But look at what happens already - de-cat pipes, EGR deletes, re-map's - when each new model is released remaps aren't available for ~6 months until somebody cracks the code, this will be no different...
They can do all those things because nobody knows about it. That won't be the case in future.You don't think that the ISA system simply uses a GPS signal, and a camera reads the speed sign?
It's 2 way communication with traffic lights, roadside signs and possibly the police if the system shows if the system has been tampered with or you're speeding or have run a red light.
And before you negate that idea
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7373639/M...
https://www.auto-talks.com/v2i-vehicle-to-infrastr...
It's funny how many posters are going to such lengths to denounce a system designed for improve road safety and vowing to remove it at the earliest opportunity.
I can also set a maximum speed! Or see how fast its going. Doesn't take much imagination to see how far it can be taken, especially once 5G is rolled out.
NMNeil said:
The autobahn justification may be coming to an end very soon.
https://fortune.com/2020/03/07/germany-autobahn-sp...
Speed limits on the German autobahn have been discussed ever sincehttps://fortune.com/2020/03/07/germany-autobahn-sp...
it was invented. Not happened in 80+ years, not likely to ever happen.
Generations of German politicians know that it is political suicide to suggest limits.
Road safety professionals know there is no advantage to such general limits, because the road safety statistics show this. German autobahns are close to European averages for safety.
Even so, with about 10% of the traffic doing over 180 kmh and the average at
145 kmh and rising every year, at what level would you set the limit ?
130 kmh will cost a lot of money in time lost and upset tens of millions
of voters and taxpayers, so that isn't going to happen.
The 85% rule would appear to suggest about 170 kmh, but I can't see
that happening either.
Being forced to drive slowly isn't a very good substitute for driving carefully.
ReverendCounter said:
NMNeil said:
If banning the ownership of a 200 mph car or bike saves the life of just one child, it's worth it.
Adopting your logic, what if the one child who goes unkilled becomes a serial killer?The discussion was a good read until someone used the death card and reference kids. You can attempt to give credibility to every single safety argument with this. Give the worst example. Pull on everyone's heart strings and then say how dare you to anyone that disagrees.
THEY obviously know what is better for us all. Speeding cameras are simply not generating enough revenue. Is that why tobacco and alcohol is heavily taxed yet still legal in most countries?
THEY obviously know what is better for us all. Speeding cameras are simply not generating enough revenue. Is that why tobacco and alcohol is heavily taxed yet still legal in most countries?
Skellum said:
I wonder how NMN would react if we said we'd take his guns away so as to save a single life?
Any chance you could share what you mean?
I could be doing NMN a grave disservice here but IIRC he has been quite pro 2nd amendment, is ex-LEO (not that the 2 necessarily go hand in hand)Any chance you could share what you mean?
BazookaBorris said:
The discussion was a good read until someone used the death card and reference kids. You can attempt to give credibility to every single safety argument with this. Give the worst example. Pull on everyone's heart strings and then say how dare you to anyone that disagrees.
THEY obviously know what is better for us all. Speeding cameras are simply not generating enough revenue. Is that why tobacco and alcohol is heavily taxed yet still legal in most countries?
govements been using it for ages to remove freedom on the internet under the protect children / catch pedo fear bannerTHEY obviously know what is better for us all. Speeding cameras are simply not generating enough revenue. Is that why tobacco and alcohol is heavily taxed yet still legal in most countries?
the Ring management know the greens threat to the autobahns and to the ring is very real as the party gets ever larger
its why they have come down very hard on stopping lap times on none track day events and pretty much banned any filming of accidents, they dont want to give amunition to those who want to limit the ring
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