mandatory speed limiters to be fitted from 2022?

mandatory speed limiters to be fitted from 2022?

Author
Discussion

bobble293

11 posts

104 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
Again, governments take an overly simplistic view of, (and attempt to apply a high tech solution) to, road safety. If speed were really the problem, most fatalities and injuries would be sustained on "fast" roads. The last stats I saw showed that not to be the case.
I'd rather see advanced driver training being introduced,along with regular retesting.

Better driving standards would do more for safety than better technology. Clarkson said many years ago, having been involved in an incident with another driver, that the other driver said "It can't be my fault, I have ABS"... The quote may have been made up, but it is the way some people think. I've had test drives in a couple of modern vehicles in the last year, and they're being sold on the basis they make driving easier. Keyless entry and ignition, adaptive cruise control, autopilot, lane change sensors... I want to drive the car, and take responsibility.

I was once a Safety Rep in a large factory. damage caused by fork lifts was running at about £45,000 a year, and management and other employees were complaining about FLTs whizzing everywhere at max speed. At a meeting, despite my saying it wouldn't work, management decided, unilaterally, to have rev limiters fitted experimentally on some of the fork lift trucks. That didn't work, because to lift a load quickly to height in the racking systems, you need to rev the engine to shift hydraulic oil, and the rev limiters prevented that, so the process was being slowed. I'd said from the outset that the rev limiter ought only to be operative when FLTs were in gear, but management couldn't see that...

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. Who's lobbying for it? Bosch, perhaps?

Oliver-eppue

29 posts

40 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
wab172uk said:
I'll happily pay what ever they want if it means keeping my old unrestricted car.

What get's me, is that the German car manufacturers will be hit the hardest by this. If all car's in Europe are restricted to max speed limit, then what is the point in anything with more than 100bhp?
More to the point, in 2022 I predict new car sales will tank across Europe because why would one opt for this when one could buy a barely used 2021 car at a 30% discount AND maintain freedom? This could cause real cashflow issues for many car manufacturers.

Car manufacturers must despise this new law.

Edited by Oliver-eppue on Wednesday 27th March 09:56

DJMC

3,027 posts

68 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
techguyone said:
I'm more concerned about any linked autonomous braking, We've already seen numerous reports of Quashqais unexpectedly and severely braking as an example. I don't mind something that tells me when I'm over a limit and requires me to firmly press on the throttle to over come (hell my kuga does that now, albeit I tell it the limit myself) I'm not so comfortable with it suddenly braking as it perceives a new limit where none may be. I see it on my sat nav when I'm on a motorway and under it is a regular B road with a 30 mph limit.

  1. notentirelyconvinced
Our 2016 BMW X1 unexpectedly and severely braked when it thought an oncoming truck was going to hit it. I had taken absolutely no avoiding action as I could see the truck was simply following the A road centre line but a little closer to the line than usual.

This isn't connected to speed limit signs but shows me autonomous features simply will not work. The computer algorithms are not clever enough and will never match the human brain for conjecture.

Who on earth would get into a car and let it drive itself along a winding country road. You'd have a heart attack!

Alex

9,969 posts

249 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
IAmTupperware said:
There we go laughlaugh
Well, you mentioned it first! tongue out

JimSuperSix

3,924 posts

208 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
The BBC article says "the system can be overridden by pressing the accelerator harder".

Brilliant. So in other words its utterly pointless. Just more electronic crap stuck on a car in a vain attempt to compensate for the lack of decent road policing and the falling driving standards, without the government having to actually do anything about it themselves.

What a colossal bunch of tts.

IAmTupperware

111 posts

36 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
Alex said:
Well, you mentioned it first! tongue out
getmecoatgetmecoat

Mark-izgmo

2 posts

28 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
the devil is in the detail, i think also there will be black box recording of speeds to go with these "driving aids" and I guess that will include how many times you go over the speed limit.

It won't be long before insurance companies lobby for access to then use the data to claim you regularly drive recklessly (assuming that's defined as going over the speed limit) in order to not payout.

How long before the police can access this to figure out where exactly you have been? Then maybe retrospective fines for speeding?

It is inevitable, given how readily the government is willing to give our data away to make buck or two.


markBXTR

24 posts

59 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
When will these idiots learn? Speed doesn't kill people, stupidity does and no amount of legislation and turning us drivers in to automatons will change that. Most, if not all bad driving I see has been done by individuals driving near to or below the speed limit either on the motorway, B roads or in Town. Limiting the speed of our cars isn't going to stop people using their mobile phones, tailgating (probably the chief suspect in a lot of road collisions), swerving in and out of traffic, jumping lights etc.

I was behind a car on Sunday and he was doing around 30mph in a 40 zone. The guy was swerving all over the road, when he went around a bend in the road I could see why. He had a bloody dog on his lap while driving!!! Now, how is limiting the speed in our cars going to stop utter morons like this from getting behind the wheel of a lethal weapon? It isn't. It's just another excuse by the wishy washy PC brigade bureaucrats (who probably have chauffeur driven cars) to take away more of our freedoms and liberties.

As somebody has already said, a bunch of C@nts.

Mark-izgmo

2 posts

28 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
If anyone thinks this will never happen then think about the cost savings eg no more need for speed cameras and their maintenance, no more need for cops with speed guns (which means they can spend time on "real" crime. Then think about how much revenue they can gain for automatic speed fines based on the GPS data.

That's the real driver here for the government, not saving lives.

irocfan

Original Poster:

26,716 posts

155 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
IAmTupperware said:
Is this an EU only thing? I am very surprised but also impressed that we've got this far into a PH thread without mentioning brexit...
the gov't have advised that thy're signing up for this brexit or no

XK8MAN

6 posts

76 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
I think it will cause more accidents than reduce accidents. The indications are that the device will be fitted to all new cars, vans, lorries, etc., from 2022. Therefore, cars built before this date will still have the ability to drive at whatever the drivers feels appropriate. So it will be some years before it will have an impact and in the interim period accidents are likely between the cars fitted with device and those without. I regularly drive behind drivers who never drive to the limit and in country roads, cause hold ups. Overtaking cannot be undertaken safely if the device is fitted.

ITP

1,408 posts

162 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
All politicians are complete and utter metropolitan tw@ts with no understanding about normal human beings.

That’s all I have to say about the matter.

FlossyThePig

4,016 posts

208 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
Most of the comments remind me of the discussions about compulsory wearing of seat belts, in the early 80s.

AJLintern

3,926 posts

228 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
I think this will cause more accidents due to tiredness and inattention. Driving on motorways is dull enough as it is - taking more and more driver interaction from the process will lead to people just dropping off as they're lulled into the false sense of security of a car the appears to take over the decision making... until the lane tracking algorithm pics up an old temporary white line from the previous set of road works and steers you into the armco!

chemistry

1,075 posts

74 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
Will this kill off purely ‘fun’ cars like Caterhams and Atoms do you think?

PaulG40

2,381 posts

190 months

Wednesday 27th March 2019
quotequote all
Wonder how this will affect Supercar manufacturers?? Pretty making them all Null and void?! Aswell, you may say all the big range rover type of cars. Huge impact of the car industry!

Not to mention the police revenue lost in speeding fines and therefore no funding for the police to actually police.

techguyone

2,418 posts

107 months

Thursday 28th March 2019
quotequote all
People need to realise that there are two massive changes happening within the car/personal transport industry.

First is electrification - Full EV

Second is fully autonomous - this one is the biggie.

All these things like auto lights, adaptive cruise, speed limiters etc are not for your benefit, but purely as the inexorable march towards full self autonomy.

Once we get to that point (which will likely be sooner rather than later) people very likely won't need to own a vehicle at all, given that the vast majority of non commercial vehicles are actually sat on your drive or in a car park. you'd call up a 'pod' on your phone it'll turn up from a pool of local vehicles and take you where you want, you'd likely pay a monthly service charge for this, plus per mile usage, variable rates dependant on size an class of 'car'.

I know, I'm a heretic...

Thing is for 99% of the population, this arrangement would work out ok, provided that there were enough local cars available fr use without a lengthy wait.

Some lucky company would hoover up the maintenance contract and make mega bucks, ensuring all the cars in each population centre were serviced/cleaned and kept charged for use. A nice side effect of this vision would be the end of endless cars littering the sides of the road and verges.

The negative side, huge. Would be the ending of thousands of professions, car showrooms/sellers, gone. Performance companies - gone. Garage staff/mechanics the same, I could go on, but you get the general gist.

Great cost savings on wages etc, not so good for the people in those industries.

I may be wrong, but I can see this as a medium term future, be grateful we lived in a time when we could go out and drive our cars, these days are drawing to a close, I'd wager that our children's children will have no need for a driving licence.

  • Don't shoot the messenger **

markBXTR

24 posts

59 months

Thursday 28th March 2019
quotequote all
techguyone said:
People need to realise that there are two massive changes happening within the car/personal transport industry.

First is electrification - Full EV

Second is fully autonomous - this one is the biggie.

All these things like auto lights, adaptive cruise, speed limiters etc are not for your benefit, but purely as the inexorable march towards full self autonomy.

Once we get to that point (which will likely be sooner rather than later) people very likely won't need to own a vehicle at all, given that the vast majority of non commercial vehicles are actually sat on your drive or in a car park. you'd call up a 'pod' on your phone it'll turn up from a pool of local vehicles and take you where you want, you'd likely pay a monthly service charge for this, plus per mile usage, variable rates dependant on size an class of 'car'.

I know, I'm a heretic...

Thing is for 99% of the population, this arrangement would work out ok, provided that there were enough local cars available fr use without a lengthy wait.

Some lucky company would hoover up the maintenance contract and make mega bucks, ensuring all the cars in each population centre were serviced/cleaned and kept charged for use. A nice side effect of this vision would be the end of endless cars littering the sides of the road and verges.

The negative side, huge. Would be the ending of thousands of professions, car showrooms/sellers, gone. Performance companies - gone. Garage staff/mechanics the same, I could go on, but you get the general gist.

Great cost savings on wages etc, not so good for the people in those industries.

I may be wrong, but I can see this as a medium term future, be grateful we lived in a time when we could go out and drive our cars, these days are drawing to a close, I'd wager that our children's children will have no need for a driving licence.

  • Don't shoot the messenger **
Unfortunately I have to agree with you. I take solice in the fact that have I lived through the golden age of sports cars. Also that I'm likely to be dead in fifty years time of old age and the erosion of our liberty won't effect me too much.

irocfan

Original Poster:

26,716 posts

155 months

Thursday 28th March 2019
quotequote all
techguyone said:
People need to realise that there are two massive changes happening within the car/personal transport industry.

First is electrification - Full EV

Second is fully autonomous - this one is the biggie.

All these things like auto lights, adaptive cruise, speed limiters etc are not for your benefit, but purely as the inexorable march towards full self autonomy.

Once we get to that point (which will likely be sooner rather than later) people very likely won't need to own a vehicle at all, given that the vast majority of non commercial vehicles are actually sat on your drive or in a car park. you'd call up a 'pod' on your phone it'll turn up from a pool of local vehicles and take you where you want, you'd likely pay a monthly service charge for this, plus per mile usage, variable rates dependant on size an class of 'car'.

I know, I'm a heretic...

Thing is for 99% of the population, this arrangement would work out ok, provided that there were enough local cars available fr use without a lengthy wait.

Some lucky company would hoover up the maintenance contract and make mega bucks, ensuring all the cars in each population centre were serviced/cleaned and kept charged for use. A nice side effect of this vision would be the end of endless cars littering the sides of the road and verges.

The negative side, huge. Would be the ending of thousands of professions, car showrooms/sellers, gone. Performance companies - gone. Garage staff/mechanics the same, I could go on, but you get the general gist.

Great cost savings on wages etc, not so good for the people in those industries.

I may be wrong, but I can see this as a medium term future, be grateful we lived in a time when we could go out and drive our cars, these days are drawing to a close, I'd wager that our children's children will have no need for a driving licence.

  • Don't shoot the messenger **
I'm sort of with you in the thinking bit - I suspect that most people would be more than happy with this arrangement. HOWEVER, the devil, as you say, is in the detail....

...provided that there were enough local cars available fr use without a lengthy wait...

this would, I suspect be the proverbial fly in the ointment. A personal transportation device (let's call it car) is there waiting for you 24/7; just want to pop over to see your parents? Car, no wait. Emergency? Car, no wait. Spur of the moment trip to YYZ? No rush, the car is waiting for your trip. Moving pictures (rubbish/whatever)? Car, no wait.....

bigdog3

1,823 posts

145 months

Thursday 28th March 2019
quotequote all
techguyone said:
People need to realise that there are two massive changes happening within the car/personal transport industry.

First is electrification - Full EV

Second is fully autonomous - this one is the biggie.

All these things like auto lights, adaptive cruise, speed limiters etc are not for your benefit, but purely as the inexorable march towards full self autonomy.

Once we get to that point (which will likely be sooner rather than later) people very likely won't need to own a vehicle at all, given that the vast majority of non commercial vehicles are actually sat on your drive or in a car park. you'd call up a 'pod' on your phone it'll turn up from a pool of local vehicles and take you where you want, you'd likely pay a monthly service charge for this, plus per mile usage, variable rates dependant on size an class of 'car'.

I know, I'm a heretic...

Thing is for 99% of the population, this arrangement would work out ok, provided that there were enough local cars available fr use without a lengthy wait.

Some lucky company would hoover up the maintenance contract and make mega bucks, ensuring all the cars in each population centre were serviced/cleaned and kept charged for use. A nice side effect of this vision would be the end of endless cars littering the sides of the road and verges.

The negative side, huge. Would be the ending of thousands of professions, car showrooms/sellers, gone. Performance companies - gone. Garage staff/mechanics the same, I could go on, but you get the general gist.

Great cost savings on wages etc, not so good for the people in those industries.

I may be wrong, but I can see this as a medium term future, be grateful we lived in a time when we could go out and drive our cars, these days are drawing to a close, I'd wager that our children's children will have no need for a driving licence.

  • Don't shoot the messenger **
Spot on - this is exactly where we are heading at an alarming rate. Recreational motoring will be removed from the Queen's Highway and confined to hardcore racers and track-dayers whistle