RE: Mercedes-AMG S65 saloon to bow out
Discussion
mrbarnett said:
Time was that regular cars sold in big numbers, in part because of very special flagship that sold in tiny numbers.
Increasingly, people are wowed not by mechanics, but by electronics and even software, and tend to want it in their regular cars. Knowing that a version of their car exists with something spectacular under the bonnet seems not to do it for people anymore.
Consequently, the flagships are all sinking. Shame.
I can see your point, but in "the good ol' days" there wasn't the technology or software to wow people over....so it was just what was under the bonnet!Increasingly, people are wowed not by mechanics, but by electronics and even software, and tend to want it in their regular cars. Knowing that a version of their car exists with something spectacular under the bonnet seems not to do it for people anymore.
Consequently, the flagships are all sinking. Shame.
mrbarnett said:
Time was that regular cars sold in big numbers, in part because of very special flagship that sold in tiny numbers.
Increasingly, people are wowed not by mechanics, but by electronics and even software, and tend to want it in their regular cars. Knowing that a version of their car exists with something spectacular under the bonnet seems not to do it for people anymore.
Consequently, the flagships are all sinking. Shame.
Agreed. Increasingly, people are wowed not by mechanics, but by electronics and even software, and tend to want it in their regular cars. Knowing that a version of their car exists with something spectacular under the bonnet seems not to do it for people anymore.
Consequently, the flagships are all sinking. Shame.
Plus, I don't think the considerable mark ups manufacturers have been bolting onto the flagship cars particularly help. A quick glance shows a V12 being around twice the price of a base s350d.
Sure, once speced up like for like the base car is going to a little bit closer in price, but perhaps not enough to justify the insane mark up, and more than double co2 emissions.
As wonderful an engine it is, it is still heavily linked with an engine that came out in 2002... Tooling and production processes must have been optimised by now?
The VIP in the back probably wouldn't notice or care about the missing 6 cylinders, and the driver will still have a decent amount of torque to play with.
Seems like a mark up for a mark ups sake. I could see the logic behind say a s600 compared to the likes of entry spec Bentleys and Rolls Royces, but the V12 AMGs always seemed like maybe a step too far pricing wise.
Even with my love of the V12TT, I've have to do some serious thinking about ordering a new one, even with a euromillions win behind me.
WorldBoss said:
mrbarnett said:
Time was that regular cars sold in big numbers, in part because of very special flagship that sold in tiny numbers.
Increasingly, people are wowed not by mechanics, but by electronics and even software, and tend to want it in their regular cars. Knowing that a version of their car exists with something spectacular under the bonnet seems not to do it for people anymore.
Consequently, the flagships are all sinking. Shame.
Agreed. Increasingly, people are wowed not by mechanics, but by electronics and even software, and tend to want it in their regular cars. Knowing that a version of their car exists with something spectacular under the bonnet seems not to do it for people anymore.
Consequently, the flagships are all sinking. Shame.
Plus, I don't think the considerable mark ups manufacturers have been bolting onto the flagship cars particularly help. A quick glance shows a V12 being around twice the price of a base s350d.
Sure, once speced up like for like the base car is going to a little bit closer in price, but perhaps not enough to justify the insane mark up, and more than double co2 emissions.
As wonderful an engine it is, it is still heavily linked with an engine that came out in 2002... Tooling and production processes must have been optimised by now?
The VIP in the back probably wouldn't notice or care about the missing 6 cylinders, and the driver will still have a decent amount of torque to play with.
Seems like a mark up for a mark ups sake. I could see the logic behind say a s600 compared to the likes of entry spec Bentleys and Rolls Royces, but the V12 AMGs always seemed like maybe a step too far pricing wise.
Even with my love of the V12TT, I've have to do some serious thinking about ordering a new one, even with a euromillions win behind me.
I’d wager original owners (clearly millionaires) don’t particularly enjoy any time spent at petrol stations even if it’s someone else filling up
None the less no doubt those with simply like having the best there is to buy they couldn’t care les about an extra £100k it’s nothjng to them but having V12 you know it’s like Boris the blade if it doesn’t work it’s stilk heavy enough to hit him with it (snatch the film for those who don’t understand).
None the less no doubt those with simply like having the best there is to buy they couldn’t care les about an extra £100k it’s nothjng to them but having V12 you know it’s like Boris the blade if it doesn’t work it’s stilk heavy enough to hit him with it (snatch the film for those who don’t understand).
Equus said:
As far as I'm aware, it's only running on 6 of the 12 cylinders most of the time, anyway (especially at chauffeur pace)?
I'll have to do some digging as to what changes have been made for the latest m279 V12s. I know the older units certainly do not have cylinder deactivation, although still get fairly reasonable MPG as long as you're not in traffic!WorldBoss said:
Equus said:
As far as I'm aware, it's only running on 6 of the 12 cylinders most of the time, anyway (especially at chauffeur pace)?
I'll have to do some digging as to what changes have been made for the latest m279 V12s. I know the older units certainly do not have cylinder deactivation, although still get fairly reasonable MPG as long as you're not in traffic!My CL65 did 8 MPG in heavy traffic on the M25 the day I picked it up but averaged 19 MPG regardless of how fast you went. I once got 24 MPG going up to Yorkshire.
BIRMA said:
WorldBoss said:
Equus said:
As far as I'm aware, it's only running on 6 of the 12 cylinders most of the time, anyway (especially at chauffeur pace)?
I'll have to do some digging as to what changes have been made for the latest m279 V12s. I know the older units certainly do not have cylinder deactivation, although still get fairly reasonable MPG as long as you're not in traffic!My CL65 did 8 MPG in heavy traffic on the M25 the day I picked it up but averaged 19 MPG regardless of how fast you went. I once got 24 MPG going up to Yorkshire.
V12 - makes the S85 seem economical!
Wouldn’t now be without one though - passengers do notice the silence, the smoothness, the effortlessness. If I don’t get a 5l s/c L322, then I’ll get an M760 when they drop a bit more.
BIRMA said:
WorldBoss said:
Equus said:
As far as I'm aware, it's only running on 6 of the 12 cylinders most of the time, anyway (especially at chauffeur pace)?
I'll have to do some digging as to what changes have been made for the latest m279 V12s. I know the older units certainly do not have cylinder deactivation, although still get fairly reasonable MPG as long as you're not in traffic!My CL65 did 8 MPG in heavy traffic on the M25 the day I picked it up but averaged 19 MPG regardless of how fast you went. I once got 24 MPG going up to Yorkshire.
Anyone interested in buying a later V12 Mercedes/AMG should check out my log of ownership its on Pistonheads under Readers Cars and titled 'CL65 a fast barge' I did this because quite frankly there was a load of myths/b
ks on the internet about the scary costs of ownership. There is of course a risk but a good one is something special even though it is a big car.BIRMA said:
BIRMA said:
WorldBoss said:
Equus said:
As far as I'm aware, it's only running on 6 of the 12 cylinders most of the time, anyway (especially at chauffeur pace)?
I'll have to do some digging as to what changes have been made for the latest m279 V12s. I know the older units certainly do not have cylinder deactivation, although still get fairly reasonable MPG as long as you're not in traffic!My CL65 did 8 MPG in heavy traffic on the M25 the day I picked it up but averaged 19 MPG regardless of how fast you went. I once got 24 MPG going up to Yorkshire.
Anyone interested in buying a later V12 Mercedes/AMG should check out my log of ownership its on Pistonheads under Readers Cars and titled 'CL65 a fast barge' I did this because quite frankly there was a load of myths/b
ks on the internet about the scary costs of ownership. There is of course a risk but a good one is something special even though it is a big car.I managed a frankly unbelievable 30MPG on the run back from collecting my 221. Although I did pay less than a set of MB supplied coil packs and plugs for it, so was kinda worried it might blow up
Long term MPG motorway/town driving is around 25MPG, although when I used my 220 primarily around london and 8-9MPG was not unheard of.
I agree entirely with you regarding the misinformation and rubbish out there. Do your research, get the weak spots repaired/replaced early, keep on top of maintenance and enjoy.
Your CL65 looked like a beast - May I ask what on earth you followed that up with!?
WorldBoss said:
Your CL65 looked like a beast - May I ask what on earth you followed that up with!?
I normally only keep a car for a year, due to changes in my business I decided to try flying to destinations in the UK rather than driving.So reluctantly gave up Luxo-Barge ownership and it seems to have worked, although I nearly bought a very high spec 2015 Audi A8 W12.
I replaced the AMG with a nearly new Lexus RCF which although only being a mere 5 litre V8 does the job OK but really doesn't have that smooth oomph that only a V12 seems to deliver.
I'd just like to pass on my thoughts for anyone who feels the need to scratch that V12 itch and what petrolhead doesn't!.
The Mercedes AMG V12's are a good starting point, although the car in this feature is way up in the £80K's with very low mileage and in relative terms a bargain, but at about the £40-50K price point you can still buy a virtually as new condition low mileage car (I did) and they represent in relative terms a real bargain.
Things like coil packs that are known to fail can be replaced for about £1200 per side as there are two, I understand MB have improved the design of them now so maybe they are now a once only replacement.
Also Mercedes Benz have what they call a Service Plan which can run over a one, two and three year period off the top of my head the V12 model was about £50 a month for the three year. This again is a real bargain for V12 owners and should be seriously considered.
These cars will have you grinning from ear to ear a lot of times and then the odd brown trouser moment on damp roads, parts like brakes are expensive and they do eat tyres with all that power going to the rear wheels.
You can get these cars re-mapped for a few hundred pounds and that will bring the power up to 660 BHP and the torque to starship levels, I very nearly had mine done as I'd been told it takes performance to another level.
Edited by BIRMA on Friday 8th March 10:27
Despite my aversion to most three-pointed vehicles the S65 (and S70) have always piqued my interest probably due to the astronomical power figures. I've lusted from afar over the bargain basement S65 models and fully armed with the knowledge of the £2.5k coil-pack bork I have often wanted to pull the trigger.
V12's are fabulously smooth engines and I can only imagine that strapping a pair of turbos to one most make for Saturn V levels of horizon reaching. I was informed that the current BMW M760Li will be the swansong for a V12 under the blue and white propellor bonnet and their depreciation is a near match for Mercedes V12 starships, so perhaps in a few years a Mercedes, an S65 only though, might find its way into my hands.
V12's are fabulously smooth engines and I can only imagine that strapping a pair of turbos to one most make for Saturn V levels of horizon reaching. I was informed that the current BMW M760Li will be the swansong for a V12 under the blue and white propellor bonnet and their depreciation is a near match for Mercedes V12 starships, so perhaps in a few years a Mercedes, an S65 only though, might find its way into my hands.
McGee_22 said:
Despite my aversion to most three-pointed vehicles the S65 (and S70) have always piqued my interest probably due to the astronomical power figures. I've lusted from afar over the bargain basement S65 models and fully armed with the knowledge of the £2.5k coil-pack bork I have often wanted to pull the trigger.
V12's are fabulously smooth engines and I can only imagine that strapping a pair of turbos to one most make for Saturn V levels of horizon reaching. I was informed that the current BMW M760Li will be the swansong for a V12 under the blue and white propellor bonnet and their depreciation is a near match for Mercedes V12 starships, so perhaps in a few years a Mercedes, an S65 only though, might find its way into my hands.
I didn't realise that BMW were stopping production of their V12 too, I'd have thought with the tie in with RR they would have kept it going although the market for these cars in this day and age has probably changed. But considering that BMW seem to be the engine suppliers for the world these days I'd have still thought they'd keep their V12 just to say they can. Decent V12's and N/A V8's are definitely becoming a thing of the past and will only appear in cars at a price point beyond the average petrolhead.V12's are fabulously smooth engines and I can only imagine that strapping a pair of turbos to one most make for Saturn V levels of horizon reaching. I was informed that the current BMW M760Li will be the swansong for a V12 under the blue and white propellor bonnet and their depreciation is a near match for Mercedes V12 starships, so perhaps in a few years a Mercedes, an S65 only though, might find its way into my hands.
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