RE: Ferrari 458 Italia: Spotted

RE: Ferrari 458 Italia: Spotted

Author
Discussion

av185

18,432 posts

126 months

Tuesday 5th March 2019
quotequote all
458 is great package although a bit soft round the edges and as a B road drivers car they are in the main severely compromised by their width.

Which is why a more focused 991.2 GT3 is a better drivers car. Especially with a 'manuel' gearbox.

Oh, and btw black Ferraris with red leather are always rather grim, drab and depressing.

big_rob_sydney

3,394 posts

193 months

Thursday 7th March 2019
quotequote all
Robert-nszl1 said:
big_rob_sydney said:
Thank you for attempting to put words in my mouth; as an Italian myself, I've driven many miles all over Italy, and I don't require you to tell me where I could, would, or should enjoy.

I do find it hilarious though that in the other Ferrari thread, you are producing the exact same sentiment I have stated regarding multiple cars and compromises. You have clearly understood my point, yet here are seeking to argue the toss...

Nice one, "mate".
I wasn't suggesting for one moment where you should drive. Indeed you've already stated you don't buy into the emotion and that there are many other roads in the world. I suspect others on here would however agree with my sentiment. To ease your Italian conscience for not wanting to drive a Ferrari in Tuscany, make it the Jura on a clear, cold March day. Is that easier for you to disagree with?

With regard to the other thread, I merely pointed out people can use their cars as they wish, and low mileage isn't indicative of the the owner not enjoying their car. It in no way suggests compromise, it is the reality of owning a number of cars.

Clearly I can't teach you anything about driving in Italy. A 458 is apparently compromised, and there are other cars that have a bigger operating window for the money. Why don't you tell us all what car you'd pick, and where you'd drive it? All I can see is you own a Lexus...no doubt a fine car, but hardly one that generates much in the way of excitement on any level.... I don't know if you've noticed 'maestro', but this is a site for car enthusiasts....
I don't recall asking for your assistance about driving in Italy, nor about whether I should or should not drive in Tuscany. When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.

Regarding Lexus, they are the best manufactured brand on the planet and consistently top the JD Powers quality survey, as reported by owners over long periods of time, as opposed by coffee fueled journalists who have to make assessments over relatively short time frames. The LS won car of the year, and was the top quality car for something like 14 or 15 years straight. No other brand has ever come close to shaking up the establishment like Lexus have, and I appreciate the engineering, specifically, for its fitness of purpose. It does not seek to be a sports car (obviously), and your snarky comments around this website hold you in low stead; see fitness of purpose.

What would *I* choose? Does it really matter? Or is it more a case of wanting to deconstruct my argument? Fine, if that's your game. I'd expect at this price point that the majority of owners would have homes large enough for more than one car. You can't carry a family in one of these, so they presumably have something else. And once you open up the possibility of multiple cars, with at least one of them at this price point, you start to get all sorts of interesting options. For *my* money, I'd be looking at whatever devices nail the brief with the least number of compromises in each. Ex formula car, sports bike, tow car, family car, helicopter. Which "specific" vehicle will depend on how much money you want to throw at it.

Regarding 'maestro', that's not Italian for "mate". Please quit while you're behind.

Robert-nszl1

401 posts

87 months

Thursday 7th March 2019
quotequote all
big_rob_sydney said:
Robert-nszl1 said:
big_rob_sydney said:
Thank you for attempting to put words in my mouth; as an Italian myself, I've driven many miles all over Italy, and I don't require you to tell me where I could, would, or should enjoy.

I do find it hilarious though that in the other Ferrari thread, you are producing the exact same sentiment I have stated regarding multiple cars and compromises. You have clearly understood my point, yet here are seeking to argue the toss...

Nice one, "mate".
I wasn't suggesting for one moment where you should drive. Indeed you've already stated you don't buy into the emotion and that there are many other roads in the world. I suspect others on here would however agree with my sentiment. To ease your Italian conscience for not wanting to drive a Ferrari in Tuscany, make it the Jura on a clear, cold March day. Is that easier for you to disagree with?

With regard to the other thread, I merely pointed out people can use their cars as they wish, and low mileage isn't indicative of the the owner not enjoying their car. It in no way suggests compromise, it is the reality of owning a number of cars.

Clearly I can't teach you anything about driving in Italy. A 458 is apparently compromised, and there are other cars that have a bigger operating window for the money. Why don't you tell us all what car you'd pick, and where you'd drive it? All I can see is you own a Lexus...no doubt a fine car, but hardly one that generates much in the way of excitement on any level.... I don't know if you've noticed 'maestro', but this is a site for car enthusiasts....
I don't recall asking for your assistance about driving in Italy, nor about whether I should or should not drive in Tuscany. When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.

Regarding Lexus, they are the best manufactured brand on the planet and consistently top the JD Powers quality survey, as reported by owners over long periods of time, as opposed by coffee fueled journalists who have to make assessments over relatively short time frames. The LS won car of the year, and was the top quality car for something like 14 or 15 years straight. No other brand has ever come close to shaking up the establishment like Lexus have, and I appreciate the engineering, specifically, for its fitness of purpose. It does not seek to be a sports car (obviously), and your snarky comments around this website hold you in low stead; see fitness of purpose.

What would *I* choose? Does it really matter? Or is it more a case of wanting to deconstruct my argument? Fine, if that's your game. I'd expect at this price point that the majority of owners would have homes large enough for more than one car. You can't carry a family in one of these, so they presumably have something else. And once you open up the possibility of multiple cars, with at least one of them at this price point, you start to get all sorts of interesting options. For *my* money, I'd be looking at whatever devices nail the brief with the least number of compromises in each. Ex formula car, sports bike, tow car, family car, helicopter. Which "specific" vehicle will depend on how much money you want to throw at it.

Regarding 'maestro', that's not Italian for "mate". Please quit while you're behind.
Never has someone understood irony less well than you 'Big' Rob when it comes to the use of the word maestro...

"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you".... I take it that's what you say to the Mrs as you take your belt off?

Mate, you offered your opinion on Tuscan driving, the merits of 458 ownership....you name it. I suggested you offer the forum your views on what you would own instead, and you didn't actually name a single car! I offer opinions on this site, but they are very rarely personal in nature, and some are even constructive. I do listen to some journalists, but I'm lucky enough to have owned a few decent cars (and some less so) in my time, so I'm also capable of making my own mind up. Sometimes they are in support of a car, sometimes they aren't. But I view myself as a car enthusiast regardless of my circumstances, and that is reflected in the cars I own, and have historically owned.

I'm sure you will want the last word. Owning A Lexus must cause you many sleepless nights (you know Rob, what WILL you do if it breaks down......? ) , and I wouldn't want to cause any further stress in your life. X


BlackPrince

1,271 posts

168 months

Friday 8th March 2019
quotequote all
big_rob_sydney said:
I don't recall asking for your assistance about driving in Italy, nor about whether I should or should not drive in Tuscany. When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.

Regarding Lexus, they are the best manufactured brand on the planet and consistently top the JD Powers quality survey, as reported by owners over long periods of time, as opposed by coffee fueled journalists who have to make assessments over relatively short time frames. The LS won car of the year, and was the top quality car for something like 14 or 15 years straight. No other brand has ever come close to shaking up the establishment like Lexus have, and I appreciate the engineering, specifically, for its fitness of purpose. It does not seek to be a sports car (obviously), and your snarky comments around this website hold you in low stead; see fitness of purpose.

What would *I* choose? Does it really matter? Or is it more a case of wanting to deconstruct my argument? Fine, if that's your game. I'd expect at this price point that the majority of owners would have homes large enough for more than one car. You can't carry a family in one of these, so they presumably have something else. And once you open up the possibility of multiple cars, with at least one of them at this price point, you start to get all sorts of interesting options. For *my* money, I'd be looking at whatever devices nail the brief with the least number of compromises in each. Ex formula car, sports bike, tow car, family car, helicopter. Which "specific" vehicle will depend on how much money you want to throw at it.

Regarding 'maestro', that's not Italian for "mate". Please quit while you're behind.
are you going to answer my question or not?

BlackPrince

1,271 posts

168 months

Friday 8th March 2019
quotequote all
big_rob_sydney said:
I don't recall asking for your assistance about driving in Italy, nor about whether I should or should not drive in Tuscany. When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.

Regarding Lexus, they are the best manufactured brand on the planet and consistently top the JD Powers quality survey, as reported by owners over long periods of time, as opposed by coffee fueled journalists who have to make assessments over relatively short time frames. The LS won car of the year, and was the top quality car for something like 14 or 15 years straight. No other brand has ever come close to shaking up the establishment like Lexus have, and I appreciate the engineering, specifically, for its fitness of purpose. It does not seek to be a sports car (obviously), and your snarky comments around this website hold you in low stead; see fitness of purpose.

What would *I* choose? Does it really matter? Or is it more a case of wanting to deconstruct my argument? Fine, if that's your game. I'd expect at this price point that the majority of owners would have homes large enough for more than one car. You can't carry a family in one of these, so they presumably have something else. And once you open up the possibility of multiple cars, with at least one of them at this price point, you start to get all sorts of interesting options. For *my* money, I'd be looking at whatever devices nail the brief with the least number of compromises in each. Ex formula car, sports bike, tow car, family car, helicopter. Which "specific" vehicle will depend on how much money you want to throw at it.

Regarding 'maestro', that's not Italian for "mate". Please quit while you're behind.
Lexuses are reliable cars for octogenarians. I should know, I owned an RX350 for a while. It was comfortable but my heart couldn't handle how much coke I'd have to do to stay awake enough to drive one!

Anyway, I'll ask again what is it about the 458 that doesn't appeal?

big_rob_sydney

3,394 posts

193 months

Sunday 10th March 2019
quotequote all
BlackPrince said:
Lexuses are reliable cars for octogenarians. I should know, I owned an RX350 for a while. It was comfortable but my heart couldn't handle how much coke I'd have to do to stay awake enough to drive one!

Anyway, I'll ask again what is it about the 458 that doesn't appeal?
Sure, I'll indulge you.

But I must say, being an octogenarian, you really ought to lay off the blow.

What does not appeal to *me* about the 458, is that you can have faster cars for the money. Ferrari is trading on a number of things, but principally it is known for being a fast car. And if that is its party piece, then you would think it would maximise that.

If you looked ONLY at one car in isolation, then you could argue that competitors from Porsche, Lamborghini, Lotus, Noble, Ultima, and others might do better. Lets not forget, even within Ferraris OWN catalogue, you might find something else (eg 360 Challenge Stradale).

Personally, I love the idea of cars like Ultima and Lotus; they are light weight, yet still with an enclosed cockpit. Their single-minded pursuit of performance means they have less compromises, and are purer, ie, their fitness for purpose is more intense.

Other things being equal, an Ultima GTR Evolution is so far above a 458 it isn't even funny. Last I checked, they were £95,000 built direct from the factory, and had a power to weight ratio greater than 1 to 1. They've achieved numerous world records for performance, and have a pretty stunning laptime at Dunsfold, beating not a lowly 458, but an FXX, driven by a handy wheel man (Herr Schumacher...).

If the Ultima, driven by an average bloke, can beat a million quid FXX driven by an F1 god, then I'd say it's a safe bet its well above a 458.

Snobs need not apply.

Robert-nszl1

401 posts

87 months

Monday 11th March 2019
quotequote all
big_rob_sydney said:
Sure, I'll indulge you.

But I must say, being an octogenarian, you really ought to lay off the blow.

What does not appeal to *me* about the 458, is that you can have faster cars for the money. Ferrari is trading on a number of things, but principally it is known for being a fast car. And if that is its party piece, then you would think it would maximise that.

If you looked ONLY at one car in isolation, then you could argue that competitors from Porsche, Lamborghini, Lotus, Noble, Ultima, and others might do better. Lets not forget, even within Ferraris OWN catalogue, you might find something else (eg 360 Challenge Stradale).

Personally, I love the idea of cars like Ultima and Lotus; they are light weight, yet still with an enclosed cockpit. Their single-minded pursuit of performance means they have less compromises, and are purer, ie, their fitness for purpose is more intense.

Other things being equal, an Ultima GTR Evolution is so far above a 458 it isn't even funny. Last I checked, they were £95,000 built direct from the factory, and had a power to weight ratio greater than 1 to 1. They've achieved numerous world records for performance, and have a pretty stunning laptime at Dunsfold, beating not a lowly 458, but an FXX, driven by a handy wheel man (Herr Schumacher...).

If the Ultima, driven by an average bloke, can beat a million quid FXX driven by an F1 god, then I'd say it's a safe bet its well above a 458.

Snobs need not apply.
Thanks for the regurgitated Drivetribe article.....

The 458 is not the fastest car for the money, I don't think anyone has suggested that. Indeed it's not the fastest Ferrari even; a 488 can be had for similar money and is faster. The Ultima may or may not be the fastest 'road' car; it is after all a kit car that you can have have specced as you wish. There are many track cars (and I do appreciate that they try and promote this as a road car) that are faster than a 458, or indeed a La Ferrari. I've seen Radicals on the road, but that doesn't make them road cars.

Firstly people don't just buy Ferraris (or indeed Lamborghinis, Astons, whatever) because they are necessarily the fastest. Why would so many of the classic versions retain such immense value if that was the case? Secondly the Ultima is clearly a track car whatever the Drivetribe article might say (indeed even the journo suggests it basically is) . I suspect the 1000bhp version would be almost undriveable on public roads, and would require a fair bit of skill on a track. So 'Big' Rob, all you have done is make a judgement on the back of Top Trump stats without any thought as to what the car would be like as an ownership proposition. Not only that, you clearly have no idea why people aspire to own, and do own different types of car.

The 'snobs need not apply' comment is the clincher. You are, like a number on here, just jealous of those that do own these beautiful cars. You profess to offer a reasoned argument, but all you then do is devalue it by showing that you actually have a large chip on your shoulder. Ironic really as you suggest in the recent R8 thread you'd rather own a 488.....