RE: McLaren Grand Tourer: Geneva 2019

[Astacus]

All very lovely. A great British success story.

So why drive it on the wrong side of the road?

why not show it off driving on the left in beautiful British scenery, of which there is lots and lots?

[2manycars]

Maldini35 said:

I happen to agree re the E46 M3 but it does beg the question why on earth did you buy x3 McLarens if they are so boring?

I too have done a few laps in the Senna and ‘meh’ is not what I felt. Not even close.

Horses for courses I guess.

I’m an avid car collector and I do a lot for charity. I buy lots of different cars so I can take terminal patients out in them. My McLaren path started out with a 650s Spider, then I bought a 675lt to see how much of an improvement it was over the 650s, then I got offered a Senna so I thought ‘why not!’

I guess I feel ‘meh’ because I have lots of choice, if it’s a one time thing then yeah you would definitely be blown away. I’m just saying for an absolute fraction of the price you could get as much fun on the track out of an M2 or tuned M3.

Some videos of the charity work I do.

https://youtu.be/kDNcdDWDg6c

https://youtu.be/8OaYdGMN94g

I guess that’s why I have different cars, like you said “horses for courses”.

[bloomen]

2manycars said:

I think the last few comments on here are all echoing the same thoughts, that McLaren don’t really make exciting cars anymore. They’ve kind of slipped into the Porsche territory of just rehashed and updated models. Shame really.

I really dig the prospect of the Speedtail. That's clearly a car and shape born from purpose and a remit just like the F1.

Everything else they've made leaves me cold. P1 included.

[2manycars]

bloomen said:

I really dig the prospect of the Speedtail. That's clearly a car and shape born from purpose and a remit just like the F1.

Everything else they've made leaves me cold. P1 included.

I totally get that. The speedtail is a long thing though, I don’t see how anyone can drive that fast on the U.K. roads though. I’d have that sat in my living room just to look at.
The P1 though, that thing is ludicrous to drive. It’s as mad as a tin full of wasps. Not everyone’s cup of tea though.

[isaldiri]

2manycars said:

Ok maybe so but these are just the overall looks, an update of the lights or a slight tweak in the tub structure doesn’t constitute for a whole new car, it’s just the next upgraded generation of what is still usually the same car underneath. And the performance hasn’t massively changed since the 12c, that’s probably down to the factor that they broke the mould with that model though.
Don’t get me wrong, the McLarens are good but they just lack that bit of soul that a Ferrari has. The Macs drive with exaggerated precision but there’s something lacking with the engine factor, especially when it comes to the noise.

I am genuinely surprised that anyone would consider a 675 'boring' to drive. While I agree Mclaren's cars sound way too generic (and not in a good way), imo you'd be hard put to find someone who has driven one properly and doesn't think the 720 is not significantly quicker than a 12c as well. That said, I don't see this 'soul' bit in Ferraris that you seem to and the F8 is every bit if not worse of a rehash of the 488 than anything Mclaren have done....

[2manycars]

isaldiri said:

I am genuinely surprised that anyone would consider a 675 'boring' to drive. While I agree Mclaren's cars sound way too generic (and not in a good way), imo you'd be hard put to find someone who has driven one properly and doesn't think the 720 is not significantly quicker than a 12c as well. That said, I don't see this 'soul' bit in Ferraris that you seem to and the F8 is every bit if not worse of a rehash of the 488 than anything Mclaren have done....

You’re talking about one variation of Ferrari, the 488-F8 Tributo.
The soul bit for me comes when I jump out of my 458 SA and into my 675lt. The 675lt is quicker yes but it just doesn’t feel the same. It’s hard to explain but there’s so much emotion that goes on with the Aperta, the feedback through the wheel, the connection of the road through the chassis. It’s just different but in a much better way. Yes the 720S is quicker than the 12c but then again the GT2RS is quicker than the 720S, does it make it a better car though?
I think we are so hung up about speed now (where only a small percentage of it is useable) that we actually forget what a good drivers car is like. That’s why I love my classics, much more pure.

[isaldiri]

2manycars said:

You’re talking about one variation of Ferrari, the 488-F8 Tributo.
The soul bit for me comes when I jump out of my 458 SA and into my 675lt. The 675lt is quicker yes but it just doesn’t feel the same. It’s hard to explain but there’s so much emotion that goes on with the Aperta, the feedback through the wheel, the connection of the road through the chassis. It’s just different but in a much better way. Yes the 720S is quicker than the 12c but then again the GT2RS is quicker than the 720S, does it make it a better car though?
I think we are so hung up about speed now (where only a small percentage of it is useable) that we actually forget what a good drivers car is like. That’s why I love my classics, much more pure.

Haven't driven an Aperta but for me, the 675 is a better car to drive than the speciale and not because it's faster. I agree it's different but not necessarily better.

Outside of being on Cup2 R I wouldn't bet money on a 2rs being quicker than a 720 for a customer car ...but I agree about the speed thing though - it's hugely overdone by laptime chasing manufacturers and for a fun driver's car, the way is to look back rather than current/future cars imo.

[2manycars]

isaldiri said:

Haven't driven an Aperta but for me, the 675 is a better car to drive than the speciale and not because it's faster. I agree it's different but not necessarily better.

Outside of being on Cup2 R I wouldn't bet money on a 2rs being quicker than a 720 for a customer car ...but I agree about the speed thing though - it's hugely overdone by laptime chasing manufacturers and for a fun driver's car, the way is to look back rather than current/future cars imo.

Do you own them or have you had a run out them because living with them is something completely different.
I can definitely attest to the fact the GT2RS is quicker than the 720S and much more fun to live with.
Yeah the whole speed thing has become stupid now. I love how cars in the 60’s drove, hence why I’ve started collecting them now. Soooooo much fun to drive, proper manuals too. I love how you have to match the revs for each gear as the synchro’s were generally a bit toss.

[Maldini35]

2manycars said:

Yeah the whole speed thing has become stupid now. I love how cars in the 60’s drove, hence why I’ve started collecting them now. Soooooo much fun to drive, proper manuals too. I love how you have to match the revs for each gear as the synchro’s were generally a bit toss.

I totally agree with you.

Whilst I’d love to collect 60’s sports cars stratospheric prices and three kids mean I have to settle for cars from the 80s and 90s. They seem the perfect blend of modern reliability and driver engagement.

You clearly have a great collection currently but what classics are on your hit list?

[2manycars]

Maldini35 said:

I totally agree with you.

Whilst I’d love to collect 60’s sports cars stratospheric prices and three kids mean I have to settle for cars from the 80s and 90s. They seem the perfect blend of modern reliability and driver engagement.

You clearly have a great collection currently but what classics are on your hit list?

My classics currently are: 1962 Ferrari 250 GTE
1963 Ferrari 250 Lusso Competizione
1965 Aston Martin DB5
1966 Ferrari 330 GT 2+2 Series 2
1973 Ferrari 365 gtb/4 Daytona
I had an Aston Martin DB2/4 but it was awful and the engine seized pretty much straight away after I bought it so I got rid of it.
Oh I’ve got a classic Lamborghini tractor too.

Just waiting to add a 250 gt swb competizione and a 275 gtb/6c

Oh and I’ve got a Singer DLS coming in a few years, yeah I know it’s a restomod Porsche 964 but I think it’ll be great

Edited by 2manycars on Wednesday 8th May 09:17

[MDL111]

love that fact that your tractor is on a battery conditioner so it is ready for action at any time

[2manycars]

MDL111 said:

love that fact that your tractor is on a battery conditioner so it is ready for action at any time

Hell yeah, I’m thinking about getting plates on it and driving it into the village instead of just on the farm. Then I can say I drive a Lamborghini haha.

[Maldini35]

2manycars said:

My classics currently are: 1962 Ferrari 250 GTE
1963 Ferrari 250 Lusso Competizione
1965 Aston Martin DB5
1966 Ferrari 330 GT 2+2 Series 2
1973 Ferrari 365 gtb/4 Daytona
I had an Aston Martin DB2/4 but it was awful and the engine seized pretty much straight away after I bought it so I got rid of it.
Oh I’ve got a classic Lamborghini tractor too.

Just waiting to add a 250 gt swb competizione and a 275 gtb/6c

Oh and I’ve got a Singer DLS coming in a few years, yeah I know it’s a restomod Porsche 964 but I think it’ll be great

Edited by 2manycars on Wednesday 8th May 09:17

Blimey - You don't hang about do you!

A lovely collection already.

Don't apologise for the Singer either - it's on most people's dream car list. Having previously owned a 964 it's certainly on my list.

Thanks for sharing.

(Very embarrassed that I implied you needed to drive more exotics earlier in the thread. Consider my neck firmly wound in )

[FIREBIRDC9]

Since the MP4-12C i have really struggled keeping up to date on Mclaren's Lineup.
I don't think the naming system they use is helping!

570S
540C
570GT
600LT
650S
720S

The above could all be Fax Machines.....

At least the P1 , Senna and Speedtail have something unique that identifies them...
Need to take a leaf from Aston Martin

Valkyrie is a proper name!

[2manycars]

Maldini35 said:

Blimey - You don't hang about do you!

A lovely collection already.

Don't apologise for the Singer either - it's on most people's dream car list. Having previously owned a 964 it's certainly on my list.

Thanks for sharing.

(Very embarrassed that I implied you needed to drive more exotics earlier in the thread. Consider my neck firmly wound in )

Haha no need to wind your neck in, there’s lots of bullsters on here giving their 2 cents worth on cars they’ve never even sat in, so it’s only right to be sceptical.
If you like my collection then head over to my thread ‘2manycars garage’ where I talk about my cars and what I do for charity. It’s a brilliant group of people on there.
Cheers
Pete

[2manycars]

FIREBIRDC9 said:

Since the MP4-12C i have really struggled keeping up to date on Mclaren's Lineup.
I don't think the naming system they use is helping!

570S
540C
570GT
600LT
650S
720S

The above could all be Fax Machines.....

At least the P1 , Senna and Speedtail have something unique that identifies them...
Need to take a leaf from Aston Martin

Valkyrie is a proper name!

You forgot about the 675LT, 650 Can Am, and just wait until they release the 750LT. Plus there’s a spider version of every model you’ve listed above.
That’s why they are a terrible investment. My 675LT was specced with lots of MSO, it even has the gold engine bay and heat shield inspired from the F1. Stands me at £419k.
Today I could jump into one for about £220k.
Aston Martin aren’t that much better either, they all tank apart from the classics and the ultra rare ones like the Vulcan.
I came really late to the AM RB 003 party thinking they’d all have been sold, nope got my name down on one straight away, no problems. Same as when I bought my Zagato Volante, lost about £300k on that from what they cost brand new.
Same with Bentley, Lamborghini, majority of Porsche’s (except GT2RS, R, CGT, 918)
The only brand that’ll actually appreciate over their time is Ferrari. If that’s what you want out of a brand.

Edited by 2manycars on Wednesday 8th May 19:05

[cypriot]

2manycars said:

You forgot about the 675LT, 650 Can Am, and just wait until they release the 750LT. Plus there’s a spider version of every model you’ve listed above.
That’s why they are a terrible investment. My 675LT was specced with lots of MSO, it even has the gold engine bay and heat shield inspired from the F1. Stands me at £419k.
Today I could jump into one for about £220k.
Aston Martin aren’t that much better either, they all tank apart from the classics and the ultra rare ones like the Vulcan.
I came really late to the AM RB 003 party thinking they’d all have been sold, nope got my name down on one straight away, no problems. Same as when I bought my Zagato Volante, lost about £300k on that from what they cost brand new.
Same with Bentley, Lamborghini, majority of Porsche’s (except GT2RS, R, CGT, 918)
The only brand that’ll actually appreciate over their time is Ferrari. If that’s what you want out of a brand.

Edited by 2manycars on Wednesday 8th May 19:05

I was also offered an AM RB 003 slot yesterday, with the dealer saying there are still a few left... seems like they are having a bit of trouble selling them!

[smilo996]

Seems they have learned their lesson from the MP12-C

[2manycars]

cypriot said:

I was also offered an AM RB 003 slot yesterday, with the dealer saying there are still a few left... seems like they are having a bit of trouble selling them!

Yeah because they’ve over saturated their own market. They brought out the Vulcan which nobody really wanted, so they only made 19 or so. I could buy one today if I wanted so they’re not that unobtainable. They then talked about the Valkyrie for years with the first one now being ready, most people have lost interest in that. Now there’s the AM RB 003 which is a baby Valkyrie (the car that most people have lost interest in).
Aston aren’t quick enough on their R&D to be able to compete, even the smaller less funded companies are quicker.

[Don1]

2manycars said:

Yeah because they’ve over saturated their own market. They brought out the Vulcan which nobody really wanted, so they only made 19 or so. I could buy one today if I wanted so they’re not that unobtainable. They then talked about the Valkyrie for years with the first one now being ready, most people have lost interest in that. Now there’s the AM RB 003 which is a baby Valkyrie (the car that most people have lost interest in).
Aston aren’t quick enough on their R&D to be able to compete, even the smaller less funded companies are quicker.

Shame TVR can't pull their finger out...