RE: Why Morgan sold itself to the Italians
Discussion
Digga said:
I've always wondered what one with a Ducatti V-twin would be like. I just love the sound of those desmo valves.
There's history:http://www.investindustrial.com/our-business/portf...
cookie1600 said:
Digga said:
I've always wondered what one with a Ducatti V-twin would be like. I just love the sound of those desmo valves.
There's history:http://www.investindustrial.com/our-business/portf...
GAFF1974 said:
If Morgan had been French there would have been national outrage, In Britain, the story doesn’t even make the evening news, says is all.
Well...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darmont
markcoopers said:
simonjrwinter said:
The beginning of the end for Morgan?
These big investors are not known for their sympathy with brands, merely profits. While you or I might put our last penny into something we are passionate about, these big investors ONLY care about the bottom line. I worked in business media for 25 up until I retired and it’s an oft repeated formula. If something isn’t making money ( or not enough) it’s canned.
I REALLY REALLY hope I’m wrong, but greed and the lure of money may be the kiss of death for MMC
This is a little naive and simplistic. Nobody invests a penny unless they are sure that it is something they can make a return on and it fits with their sensibilities and corporate vision/ social responsibilities. Sure they want a return and making a profit is not wrong, but that profit may be realised in 10-15Y time on a future sale, and in the mean time take a reasonable dividend for financing the growth above a banks basic interest rate. An investor may well be about profits, but they do not do so without believing in the product or killing the thing that is feeding them.These big investors are not known for their sympathy with brands, merely profits. While you or I might put our last penny into something we are passionate about, these big investors ONLY care about the bottom line. I worked in business media for 25 up until I retired and it’s an oft repeated formula. If something isn’t making money ( or not enough) it’s canned.
I REALLY REALLY hope I’m wrong, but greed and the lure of money may be the kiss of death for MMC
Independent of any other brand or car maker owner they will not be forced to add a Morgan badge to say a Mx5, or use a set of parts from a generic parts bin (lambo). Frankly the prospect of investment to see them past a 5y horizon, competing on the world stage and having a non constraining parent owner who supports them seems an entirely applause able situation.
As for competing, independently and unconstrained, there is a reason Lambo is part of Audi and Aston uses Mercedes' engines, you need economies of scale to be able to provide the functionality and level of development that large(er) volumes demand, without those you limit yourself to being a small-scale niche manufacturer.
markcoopers said:
This is a little naive and simplistic. Nobody invests a penny unless they are sure that it is something they can make a return on and it fits with their sensibilities and corporate vision/ social responsibilities. Sure they want a return and making a profit is not wrong, but that profit may be realised in 10-15Y time on a future sale, and in the mean time take a reasonable dividend for financing the growth above a banks basic interest rate. An investor may well be about profits, but they do not do so without believing in the product or killing the thing that is feeding them.
Independent of any other brand or car maker owner they will not be forced to add a Morgan badge to say a Mx5, or use a set of parts from a generic parts bin (lambo). Frankly the prospect of investment to see them past a 5y horizon, competing on the world stage and having a non constraining parent owner who supports them seems an entirely applause able situation.
Investindustrial do have a pretty good track record with Ducati and to a lesser extent with Aston, but I’m personally pretty upbeat about this. With Ducati, they took a long look at the business, invested heavily in R&D and racing and were instrumental in the creation of some great road bikes. I think they will be very sympathetic to the marque and develop its line-up (yes to increase the company value) whilst being respectful of the heratige. I could be wrong, but I think most enthusiasts will be delighted with Morgan’s progress in the coming years. Here’s hoping. Independent of any other brand or car maker owner they will not be forced to add a Morgan badge to say a Mx5, or use a set of parts from a generic parts bin (lambo). Frankly the prospect of investment to see them past a 5y horizon, competing on the world stage and having a non constraining parent owner who supports them seems an entirely applause able situation.
markcoopers said:
Nobody invests a penny unless they are sure that it is something they can make a return on......
You don't appear to have grasped the concept of "risk" in business and investment.If Johnny Italian has chosen to punt some cash in the direction of Malvern he's taking a humungous risk. I'll bet the family can't believe their luck.
GAFF1974 said:
If Morgan had been French there would have been national outrage, In Britain, the story doesn’t even make the evening news, says is all.
It's not wrong, in a global marketplace you have to be willing to accept investment from anywhere. But as you say, if it had happened in the 1970's the country would have gone mental about the theft of a gem of the British car industry. During the Thatcher era it became politically incorrect to criticise the foreign acquisition of major British companies. Few here will remember how Tiny Rowland was prevented by the OFT from acquiring House of Fraser because he might fire a few incompetent local worthies and move the headquarters away from Glasgow. Nowadays you would burst out laughing at that proposition, and of course, HoF which was 'saved for Glasgow' is now a bankrupt wreck. The fact that he wouldn't bribe the Tories probably didn't help it has to be said. rockin said:
markcoopers said:
Nobody invests a penny unless they are sure that it is something they can make a return on......
You don't appear to have grasped the concept of "risk" in business and investment.If Johnny Italian has chosen to punt some cash in the direction of Malvern he's taking a humungous risk. I'll bet the family can't believe their luck.
Business established over 100 years with a full order book and just posted record profits. Sure it's not Ford or Mercedes, but I don't think it's going to go bust anytime soon.
Wacky Racer said:
Why the risk?
Because they want to increase volumes, enter new markets and develop new products. See how Tesla are coping with the first, JLR in China on the second and Lotus under Bahar on the third. Each is a big opportunity, but also a big challenge to get right, therefore a big risk to get it wrong.JxJ Jr. said:
Wacky Racer said:
Why the risk?
Because they want to increase volumes, enter new markets and develop new products. See how Tesla are coping with the first, JLR in China on the second and Lotus under Bahar on the third. Each is a big opportunity, but also a big challenge to get right, therefore a big risk to get it wrong.I love a good Morgan, saw a couple of old boys running through the dales while out on the motorbike the other week. I'd have one if I could afford it and I'm only 29.
Jimbo89 said:
I love a good Morgan, saw a couple of old boys running through the dales while out on the motorbike the other week. I'd have one if I could afford it and I'm only 29.
I'd love one. When I was 17'ish I actually put an order in for a Plus 8 (4.6 Rover). At the time there was a crazy waiting list, something like 7 years....I placed the order in the hope of having the money to afford it down the line. Sadly life got in the way and I never had the money
and still don't. I'm 38 now and they are still on my list, so you never know.I believe used to put a plaque on the chassis with the persons name who had ordered the car. So it was very much being built for someone. This really appealed to me, but of course means you'd need to buy new.
It can be frustrating reading news these days. I am not blaming Pistonheads. They are no worse than anyone else. 90% of the time we mistake blame lazy reporting and investigation on "fake news".
InvestIndustrial, an Italian firm that describes itself as "specializing in interior design", is merely one of the hundreds of related divisions of the super newsworthy Carlyle Group, an American based private investment firm and fund manager, the largest in the world. They have been noted before for a stable of companies with, among other things, employee abuse companies As well, they are big time political supporters, putting together such officially unconnected interests as George W. Bush & Osama Bin Laden. One of their current billionaire Russian advisers (aged 74) is pictured here with his wife-to-be, posing with friends and recipients of campaign largesse. https://bit.ly/2xL8YZT
Curiously, simultaneously with the Morgan signing, (Mar 7) the Group launched a new fund in the Japanese investment community to underwrite other purchases into Aston Martin Lagonda. If you searched for years, you could not find an investor with less synergy a Morgans pollyanna image. But Morgan seems to have packaging their affairs for a sale for some time...since the hiring of their current Chairman, (mid-2016) with a reputation for such things. Wonder what happened to the 6 million pound grant Morgan was given in 2016 by the British gov for advanced development into electric cars. Yes they bought back their lost land & buildings the same year. No news on electrical car development AFAIK.
InvestIndustrial, an Italian firm that describes itself as "specializing in interior design", is merely one of the hundreds of related divisions of the super newsworthy Carlyle Group, an American based private investment firm and fund manager, the largest in the world. They have been noted before for a stable of companies with, among other things, employee abuse companies As well, they are big time political supporters, putting together such officially unconnected interests as George W. Bush & Osama Bin Laden. One of their current billionaire Russian advisers (aged 74) is pictured here with his wife-to-be, posing with friends and recipients of campaign largesse. https://bit.ly/2xL8YZT
Curiously, simultaneously with the Morgan signing, (Mar 7) the Group launched a new fund in the Japanese investment community to underwrite other purchases into Aston Martin Lagonda. If you searched for years, you could not find an investor with less synergy a Morgans pollyanna image. But Morgan seems to have packaging their affairs for a sale for some time...since the hiring of their current Chairman, (mid-2016) with a reputation for such things. Wonder what happened to the 6 million pound grant Morgan was given in 2016 by the British gov for advanced development into electric cars. Yes they bought back their lost land & buildings the same year. No news on electrical car development AFAIK.
i can't see any synergy with Morgan as it is and a fund. however, Morgan as it is would struggle in the future and so changes are needed. i guess they'll leverage the brand with new manufacturing and greater numbers into new markets. so the traditional market won't like it but then they were dying out away anyway.
Harvey-Jones was sent packing, and to a degree for good reason back then as the then customer base didn't want a 'manufactured' product. Plus Six looks appropriate for the future 'traditional' Morgan.
hopefully quality will improve too, because for a product that hasn't changed much in decades it is shocking.
Harvey-Jones was sent packing, and to a degree for good reason back then as the then customer base didn't want a 'manufactured' product. Plus Six looks appropriate for the future 'traditional' Morgan.
hopefully quality will improve too, because for a product that hasn't changed much in decades it is shocking.
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