RE: 2021 F1 regulations target closer racing: Update!
Discussion
irocfan said:
hasn't Brawn already 'failed' in his attempt to ensure that F1 is the fastest, most impressive motorsport?
- IIRC correctly Indycar is faster as is drag racing (at the highest level)
- as for impressive... it my not be everyone's kettle of fish but the top-fuelers are a different world to F1
They're both impressive and fun to watch, but an F1 car flat out through maggotts and becketts, or eau rouge and raidillon is something else. I honestly couldn't get my head around it the first time I saw them in real life. Before the race, you see the various junior categories first, then the sports cars, and you start thinking "okay these are pretty quick now" then the F1 cars race and it's like the corner isn't even there, just blast straight through. It's incredible.- IIRC correctly Indycar is faster as is drag racing (at the highest level)
- as for impressive... it my not be everyone's kettle of fish but the top-fuelers are a different world to F1
Harry_523 said:
Sack off all the wings, bring back powered ground effect and active suspension
I was going to say the exact same thing. This will allow cars to overtake again without silly aids. Years ago during the Mansell, then Schumacher, and early Hamilton years I never missed a race. Now I've not watched one in years, mainly due to most races being a procession, with one or 2 overtakes due to DRS or tyres `falling off the cliff`.
Bring back ground effect, bring back overtaking and proper racing, bring back the fans that have left due to regulation which makes the races boring to watch.
irocfan said:
hasn't Brawn already 'failed' in his attempt to ensure that F1 is the fastest, most impressive motorsport?
- IIRC correctly Indycar is faster as is drag racing (at the highest level)
- as for impressive... it my not be everyone's kettle of fish but the top-fuelers are a different world to F1
You don't recall correctly. Indycar is significantly slower than F1 - COTA shows 10 seconds + per lap. - IIRC correctly Indycar is faster as is drag racing (at the highest level)
- as for impressive... it my not be everyone's kettle of fish but the top-fuelers are a different world to F1
and drag racing... it's not really the same sport to compare, is it?
irocfan said:
hasn't Brawn already 'failed' in his attempt to ensure that F1 is the fastest, most impressive motorsport?
- IIRC correctly Indycar is faster as is drag racing (at the highest level)
- as for impressive... it my not be everyone's kettle of fish but the top-fuelers are a different world to F1
I think in F1 speak, “fast” means “lap times”. - IIRC correctly Indycar is faster as is drag racing (at the highest level)
- as for impressive... it my not be everyone's kettle of fish but the top-fuelers are a different world to F1
cidered77 said:
irocfan said:
hasn't Brawn already 'failed' in his attempt to ensure that F1 is the fastest, most impressive motorsport?
- IIRC correctly Indycar is faster as is drag racing (at the highest level)
- as for impressive... it my not be everyone's kettle of fish but the top-fuelers are a different world to F1
You don't recall correctly. Indycar is significantly slower than F1 - COTA shows 10 seconds + per lap. - IIRC correctly Indycar is faster as is drag racing (at the highest level)
- as for impressive... it my not be everyone's kettle of fish but the top-fuelers are a different world to F1
and drag racing... it's not really the same sport to compare, is it?
wab172uk said:
Years ago during the Mansell, then Schumacher, and early Hamilton years I never missed a race. Now I've not watched one in years, mainly due to most races being a procession, with one or 2 overtakes due to DRS or tyres `falling off the cliff`.
Christ almighty it's not that bad. Take for example, the GB race, Hamilton got spun at the first corner and had to come back from 18th. Ending up 6th after about 10 laps, then there was a four way battle right to then end with him finishing IIRC second.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HkmYvKVx58
kimi and max at 4:07
Edited by budgie smuggler on Monday 11th March 13:20
wab172uk said:
Harry_523 said:
Sack off all the wings, bring back powered ground effect and active suspension
I was going to say the exact same thing. This will allow cars to overtake again without silly aids. Years ago during the Mansell, then Schumacher, and early Hamilton years I never missed a race. Now I've not watched one in years, mainly due to most races being a procession, with one or 2 overtakes due to DRS or tyres `falling off the cliff`.
Bring back ground effect, bring back overtaking and proper racing, bring back the fans that have left due to regulation which makes the races boring to watch.
it is not perfect now by any means. So much of that due to the money involved which on the one hand makes it still the only must-watch series for me (and i watch pretty much everything, except for bumper cars BTCC...); all that money means shareholders, means self-interests, means committees, means progress that might change the winning order is so hard to do.
These cars look better, and if they get us more overtaking then it's a step forward . Whether F1 can do anything other than gradually decline in a world where car ownership and even driving itself will start to decline and people consume their media free over their phones is a different story...
irocfan said:
cidered77 said:
irocfan said:
hasn't Brawn already 'failed' in his attempt to ensure that F1 is the fastest, most impressive motorsport?
- IIRC correctly Indycar is faster as is drag racing (at the highest level)
- as for impressive... it my not be everyone's kettle of fish but the top-fuelers are a different world to F1
You don't recall correctly. Indycar is significantly slower than F1 - COTA shows 10 seconds + per lap. - IIRC correctly Indycar is faster as is drag racing (at the highest level)
- as for impressive... it my not be everyone's kettle of fish but the top-fuelers are a different world to F1
and drag racing... it's not really the same sport to compare, is it?
If Formula One is to be the pinnacle of motorsport, it would do well to get busy shredding most of their rules and regulations for the design/build of the cars. IMO the pinnacle should be where the teams/engineers find the fastest way around a racetrack with as few impediments as possible. Specify a minimum weight, a maximum size, define the number of wheels (if you must), require a bag of meat in the seat, and get on with racing. Then you’ll see the real innovation as teams take different approaches.
Perhaps a diesel-powered F1 car will go further between pit stops providing an advantage at the cost of relatively low RPM capability or a weight penalty for the engine block to withstand the forces involved. Perhaps an electric car with 4x4 will get you to the front of the grid from the start but with a slowly decreasing amount of power and a weight penalty from the batteries. Maybe a new version of a ground effect ‘fan’ car will give breath taking cornering speeds at the expense of slower top speeds on the straights. Could a full active-aero car have the best of both high-drag cornering and low-drag top speeds, but at the expense of far greater complexity and the risk of failing components? Could there be some real benefit to using 6 smaller wheels/tyres as tried in the past to gain potentially greater grip whilst reducing the drag of larger wheels/tyres in the airstream? What about 4-wheel steering to increase cornering capabilities, or a turbine engine for massive power and revs but penalised by its appetite for fuel (which could be anything flammable)? And what’s the point in a single tyre supplier? The permutations are endless and provide opportunities for real cleverness and originality. Go on F1, blow our minds with what's possible.
The more the governing body tweaks the rules to artificially improve the racing, the further they move away from the ‘pinnacle’. A bunch of cars that look the same, have the same drivetrain, and have to conform to 1000 regulations that only allow for a small % of differentiation will almost always lead to the richest teams winning a boring race. I have much respect and admiration for Mr Brawn, but whilst F1 is driven by administrators, sponsors, and shareholders rather than engineers and drivers, it will always be less than it could be as a racing series. Give us racing steeped in engineer brains allied to driver balls - that's the pinnacle.
Perhaps a diesel-powered F1 car will go further between pit stops providing an advantage at the cost of relatively low RPM capability or a weight penalty for the engine block to withstand the forces involved. Perhaps an electric car with 4x4 will get you to the front of the grid from the start but with a slowly decreasing amount of power and a weight penalty from the batteries. Maybe a new version of a ground effect ‘fan’ car will give breath taking cornering speeds at the expense of slower top speeds on the straights. Could a full active-aero car have the best of both high-drag cornering and low-drag top speeds, but at the expense of far greater complexity and the risk of failing components? Could there be some real benefit to using 6 smaller wheels/tyres as tried in the past to gain potentially greater grip whilst reducing the drag of larger wheels/tyres in the airstream? What about 4-wheel steering to increase cornering capabilities, or a turbine engine for massive power and revs but penalised by its appetite for fuel (which could be anything flammable)? And what’s the point in a single tyre supplier? The permutations are endless and provide opportunities for real cleverness and originality. Go on F1, blow our minds with what's possible.
The more the governing body tweaks the rules to artificially improve the racing, the further they move away from the ‘pinnacle’. A bunch of cars that look the same, have the same drivetrain, and have to conform to 1000 regulations that only allow for a small % of differentiation will almost always lead to the richest teams winning a boring race. I have much respect and admiration for Mr Brawn, but whilst F1 is driven by administrators, sponsors, and shareholders rather than engineers and drivers, it will always be less than it could be as a racing series. Give us racing steeped in engineer brains allied to driver balls - that's the pinnacle.
I haven't been to an actual race in years. I found watching it on TV a better use of my time. Hassles with parking, mud bowls at Silverstone, traffic in and out, the price of food+drink on site are a joke, pretty much all the crap you have to go through besides the race itself, is just a major PITA.
Besides that, for an event that lasts, what, an hour and a half or so, you wind up losing a whole day.
Nah. To see a small number of overtakes, and knowing that one of only a few drivers can win it, I'd rather either watch highlights, or spend my time on something else entirely.
Besides that, for an event that lasts, what, an hour and a half or so, you wind up losing a whole day.
Nah. To see a small number of overtakes, and knowing that one of only a few drivers can win it, I'd rather either watch highlights, or spend my time on something else entirely.
The complexity of the cars needs to be reduced, simpler aero, scrap the hybrid systems (transporting less staff and equipment to each round will reduce F1's carbon footprint way more). And anyway hybrid systems are only a stop gap until battery technology makes it's next big leap.
Basically give the big teams less things to spend/waste money on, they will then need less staff and therefore and a smaller budget (no need for a budget cap).
Also scrap pay-per-view to increase the audience size encouraging sponsors to return to F1 and fairly distribute the revenue to the teams.
No more fuel/tyre saving, F1 should be a flat out sprint, remember "fastest on the planet" Mr Brawn, it's not an endurance series.
Why keep reducing the number of engines/gearboxes allowed per season etc? The development cost this incurs far outweighs the production cost of a few more units. The materials use have little to no relevance to the average road car engine.
The Internal Combustion Engine will be gone before we know it, lets have one last great era of F1 before it's too late.
Basically give the big teams less things to spend/waste money on, they will then need less staff and therefore and a smaller budget (no need for a budget cap).
Also scrap pay-per-view to increase the audience size encouraging sponsors to return to F1 and fairly distribute the revenue to the teams.
No more fuel/tyre saving, F1 should be a flat out sprint, remember "fastest on the planet" Mr Brawn, it's not an endurance series.
Why keep reducing the number of engines/gearboxes allowed per season etc? The development cost this incurs far outweighs the production cost of a few more units. The materials use have little to no relevance to the average road car engine.
The Internal Combustion Engine will be gone before we know it, lets have one last great era of F1 before it's too late.
crankedup said:
simonbamg said:
who cares, watch moto GP if you want to see proper racing
As a former F1 enthusiast of thirty years I gave up on watching it, dull as ditchwater. Started watching moto GP about eight years ago, entertaining racing with the highest of skills on display. cidered77 said:
wab172uk said:
Harry_523 said:
Sack off all the wings, bring back powered ground effect and active suspension
I was going to say the exact same thing. This will allow cars to overtake again without silly aids. Years ago during the Mansell, then Schumacher, and early Hamilton years I never missed a race. Now I've not watched one in years, mainly due to most races being a procession, with one or 2 overtakes due to DRS or tyres `falling off the cliff`.
Bring back ground effect, bring back overtaking and proper racing, bring back the fans that have left due to regulation which makes the races boring to watch.
it is not perfect now by any means. So much of that due to the money involved which on the one hand makes it still the only must-watch series for me (and i watch pretty much everything, except for bumper cars BTCC...); all that money means shareholders, means self-interests, means committees, means progress that might change the winning order is so hard to do.
These cars look better, and if they get us more overtaking then it's a step forward . Whether F1 can do anything other than gradually decline in a world where car ownership and even driving itself will start to decline and people consume their media free over their phones is a different story...
The Moose said:
Macboy said:
Actually being able to watch it without paying Sky £600+ per year would make the racing a whole lot better for thousands of us in the UK. I know it's a broken record but a contract where only people with a full Sky subscription can watch racing live is simply going to bring about an even greater decline in interest in F1 in the UK. yes, these are improvements to make the racing more watchable and closer for everyone around the world but I don't care how good the racing is if I can't watch it.
A full Sky subscription is not required to watch F1 in the UK.The Moose said:
Macboy said:
Actually being able to watch it without paying Sky £600+ per year would make the racing a whole lot better for thousands of us in the UK. I know it's a broken record but a contract where only people with a full Sky subscription can watch racing live is simply going to bring about an even greater decline in interest in F1 in the UK. yes, these are improvements to make the racing more watchable and closer for everyone around the world but I don't care how good the racing is if I can't watch it.
A full Sky subscription is not required to watch F1 in the UK.Chris.65 said:
The rendered image looks quite similar to a Formula E but with a larger rear wing.
Waking early on Sunday from jetlag I actually watched more or less the whole Formula E race from Hong Kong - whilst the "Fan Boost" and "Attack Mode" gimmicks were a bit annoying (IMHO) the racing itself was close, exciting and made for great viewing.
I completely get that they run at relatively slow speeds and have a lot less aero but having spent the last couple of years getting more interested in bike racing this restored my faith a little in 4 wheeled motorsport (even if they are all milk floats!).
I watch most F1 GP races during the season because I always have but the series really needs to improve the racing if it going to sustain a fan base.
funny you say that because I watched that very one and it was the first time I watched foruma E - I didnt even know it existed! Quite enjoyed it!Waking early on Sunday from jetlag I actually watched more or less the whole Formula E race from Hong Kong - whilst the "Fan Boost" and "Attack Mode" gimmicks were a bit annoying (IMHO) the racing itself was close, exciting and made for great viewing.
I completely get that they run at relatively slow speeds and have a lot less aero but having spent the last couple of years getting more interested in bike racing this restored my faith a little in 4 wheeled motorsport (even if they are all milk floats!).
I watch most F1 GP races during the season because I always have but the series really needs to improve the racing if it going to sustain a fan base.
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