RE: 2021 F1 regulations target closer racing: Update!

RE: 2021 F1 regulations target closer racing: Update!

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Discussion

The Vambo

6,643 posts

140 months

Monday 11th March 2019
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irocfan said:
TBF Brawn did say the fastest racing car - a dragster is a racing car....
Anyone else reading these posts in a Yeehaw bubba voice? laugh


lestiq

705 posts

168 months

Monday 11th March 2019
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Macboy said:
Actually being able to watch it without paying Sky £600+ per year would make the racing a whole lot better for thousands of us in the UK. I know it's a broken record but a contract where only people with a full Sky subscription can watch racing live is simply going to bring about an even greater decline in interest in F1 in the UK. yes, these are improvements to make the racing more watchable and closer for everyone around the world but I don't care how good the racing is if I can't watch it.
Yes, this.

I was a bit shocked when we left sky for Virgin to learn that the f1 channel wasn't included!

I've probably watched half a dozen races in the last 3 years, back when it was easier to find, I watched every single one of them.

Please Liberty, break free and get people into the sport again.

Macboy

732 posts

204 months

Monday 11th March 2019
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budgie smuggler said:
Macboy said:
I'm all ears. How is it possible to watch Sky F1 without a dish, skybox or subscription? Genuinely, I have no idea how that works.
Pay per view, with for example NowTV. Think they might do a subscription now too.
Wasn't aware this is an option. Thanks, I'll investigate.

ETA: So, I have investigated. £195 as a one-off payment for new customers for all 21 of 2019's races and then £33.00 a month for 2020. It's not like having to have SKY installed but it's still more than I'd really like to pay (I do also begrudge giving SKY any money at all , even via NowTV).

Edited by Macboy on Monday 11th March 16:55

LG9k

443 posts

221 months

Monday 11th March 2019
quotequote all
Macboy said:
Wasn't aware this is an option. Thanks, I'll investigate.

ETA: So, I have investigated. £195 as a one-off payment for new customers for all 21 of 2019's races and then £33.00 a month for 2020. It's not like having to have SKY installed but it's still more than I'd really like to pay (I do also begrudge giving SKY any money at all , even via NowTV).

Edited by Macboy on Monday 11th March 16:55
£33 a month only applies March to November, so 8 months for a total of £264 ongoing, less than half the original £600 number.

Sky is no longer owned by Murdoch, if that helps. (It's owned by Comcast nowadays).

Konrod

866 posts

227 months

Monday 11th March 2019
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I'm not prepared to pay for Sky so making it exciting is irrelevant.

End of story.

GroundEffect

13,819 posts

155 months

Monday 11th March 2019
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irocfan said:
cidered77 said:
irocfan said:
hasn't Brawn already 'failed' in his attempt to ensure that F1 is the fastest, most impressive motorsport?

- IIRC correctly Indycar is faster as is drag racing (at the highest level)
- as for impressive... it my not be everyone's kettle of fish but the top-fuelers are a different world to F1
You don't recall correctly. Indycar is significantly slower than F1 - COTA shows 10 seconds + per lap.

and drag racing... it's not really the same sport to compare, is it?
TBF Brawn did say the fastest racing car - a dragster is a racing car....
Fastest = shortest lap times
Quickest = max speed

Current F1 cars obliterate Indycars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ft3Ug_YthM

Not exactly 1:1 since it was a qualifying lap in F1, but even if you add 3-4 seconds to the F1 time...

Macboy

732 posts

204 months

Monday 11th March 2019
quotequote all
LG9k said:
£33 a month only applies March to November, so 8 months for a total of £264 ongoing, less than half the original £600 number.

Sky is no longer owned by Murdoch, if that helps. (It's owned by Comcast nowadays).
Yeah I know it's no longer owned by Murdoch but they were so problematic when we were subscribers that we had to threatened legal action to get them to resolve an issue they caused and refund money so they will always be a complete shower as far as I'm concerned.

Munter

31,319 posts

240 months

Monday 11th March 2019
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simonbamg said:
who cares, watch moto GP if you want to see proper racing
The irony of tuning into MotoGP highlights and it's all about tyre saving, would I suppose be lost on you at this point?

The Moose

22,821 posts

208 months

Monday 11th March 2019
quotequote all
Macboy said:
LG9k said:
£33 a month only applies March to November, so 8 months for a total of £264 ongoing, less than half the original £600 number.

Sky is no longer owned by Murdoch, if that helps. (It's owned by Comcast nowadays).
Yeah I know it's no longer owned by Murdoch but they were so problematic when we were subscribers that we had to threatened legal action to get them to resolve an issue they caused and refund money so they will always be a complete shower as far as I'm concerned.
NowTV used to work pretty well (when I was in the UK). No reason to think it wouldn't now either.

Trophy-GTA

101 posts

97 months

Monday 11th March 2019
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Gave up watching F1 years ago. IMO F1 just doesn’t work anymore and hasn’t done for several years. That’s why they keep having to change rules and what not every so often. It’s become a terrible sport and a money wasting circus show. They just pretend that it’s exciting but it’s anything but really

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 11th March 2019
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Trophy-GTA said:
Gave up watching F1 years ago. IMO F1 just doesn’t work anymore and hasn’t done for several years. That’s why they keep having to change rules and what not every so often. It’s become a terrible sport and a money wasting circus show. They just pretend that it’s exciting but it’s anything but really
Well I can't wait for the season start!!!!!

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 11th March 2019
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Sharing out the prize money more equitably may help to bring the pack closer together.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a15927068...

Tim bo

1,956 posts

139 months

Monday 11th March 2019
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MikeStroud said:
Well I can't wait for the season start!!!!!
Me either.

New changes look good to me.

F1 had become slightly processional over a few recent years. The last round of improvements however made the 2018 season one of the most exciting in many years of 1 racing, some genuinely incredible moments. Azerbaijan stands out as a particularly memorable melée.
Some fantastic, mercurial talent in the latest crop of youngsters too with Leclerc, Gasly, and of course Verstappen who rarely fails to excite.

Roll on the 2019 season.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 11th March 2019
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Tim bo said:
Azerbaijan stands out as a particularly memorable melée.
Yes one of the better races. Much prefer it to Monaco.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Monday 11th March 2019
quotequote all
Trophy-GTA said:
Gave up watching F1 years ago. IMO F1 just doesn’t work anymore and hasn’t done for several years. That’s why they keep having to change rules and what not every so often. It’s become a terrible sport and a money wasting circus show. They just pretend that it’s exciting but it’s anything but really
How do you know if it is, or isnt, exciting if you havent watched it for years?

cidered77

1,614 posts

196 months

Monday 11th March 2019
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kbee540 said:
If Formula One is to be the pinnacle of motorsport, it would do well to get busy shredding most of their rules and regulations for the design/build of the cars. IMO the pinnacle should be where the teams/engineers find the fastest way around a racetrack with as few impediments as possible. Specify a minimum weight, a maximum size, define the number of wheels (if you must), require a bag of meat in the seat, and get on with racing. Then you’ll see the real innovation as teams take different approaches.

Perhaps a diesel-powered F1 car will go further between pit stops providing an advantage at the cost of relatively low RPM capability or a weight penalty for the engine block to withstand the forces involved. Perhaps an electric car with 4x4 will get you to the front of the grid from the start but with a slowly decreasing amount of power and a weight penalty from the batteries. Maybe a new version of a ground effect ‘fan’ car will give breath taking cornering speeds at the expense of slower top speeds on the straights. Could a full active-aero car have the best of both high-drag cornering and low-drag top speeds, but at the expense of far greater complexity and the risk of failing components? Could there be some real benefit to using 6 smaller wheels/tyres as tried in the past to gain potentially greater grip whilst reducing the drag of larger wheels/tyres in the airstream? What about 4-wheel steering to increase cornering capabilities, or a turbine engine for massive power and revs but penalised by its appetite for fuel (which could be anything flammable)? And what’s the point in a single tyre supplier? The permutations are endless and provide opportunities for real cleverness and originality. Go on F1, blow our minds with what's possible.

The more the governing body tweaks the rules to artificially improve the racing, the further they move away from the ‘pinnacle’. A bunch of cars that look the same, have the same drivetrain, and have to conform to 1000 regulations that only allow for a small % of differentiation will almost always lead to the richest teams winning a boring race. I have much respect and admiration for Mr Brawn, but whilst F1 is driven by administrators, sponsors, and shareholders rather than engineers and drivers, it will always be less than it could be as a racing series. Give us racing steeped in engineer brains allied to driver balls - that's the pinnacle.
What you're describing pretty much was only achieved once with Cam Am, in the 60s/70s/early 80s. amazing cars, amazing sounds - not much in the way of racing, relative to other sports.

What you are describing would not and could not sustain quality racing because of money. Whoever spends the most would win - and there wouldn't as much variation in designs either; most cars would i'm sure have huge ground effect driven aero, take the same route for powertrain, look similar, and without regulation would corner at 8G until you slowed them down. And, and and... <could go on but basically summary is : that will never work or happen>

cidered77

1,614 posts

196 months

Monday 11th March 2019
quotequote all
The Moose said:
Macboy said:
LG9k said:
£33 a month only applies March to November, so 8 months for a total of £264 ongoing, less than half the original £600 number.

Sky is no longer owned by Murdoch, if that helps. (It's owned by Comcast nowadays).
Yeah I know it's no longer owned by Murdoch but they were so problematic when we were subscribers that we had to threatened legal action to get them to resolve an issue they caused and refund money so they will always be a complete shower as far as I'm concerned.
NowTV used to work pretty well (when I was in the UK). No reason to think it wouldn't now either.
NowTV works well - and it costs effectively 7 quid to watch one race. Of 12 quid to watch a weekend.

There are other ways to watch as well - i get all the races on my phone through Vodafone, where sky sports bonus pack costs a fiver a month.

PantsFire

519 posts

79 months

Monday 11th March 2019
quotequote all
All I really want is for drivers to have a chance at overtaking, give the cars rear wings that don't impede vision, front wings that don't kill tyres on cars that aren't insanely wide.

Distraxi

45 posts

138 months

Tuesday 12th March 2019
quotequote all
kbee540 said:
If Formula One is to be the pinnacle of motorsport, it would do well to get busy shredding most of their rules and regulations for the design/build of the cars. IMO the pinnacle should be where the teams/engineers find the fastest way around a racetrack with as few impediments as possible. Specify a minimum weight, a maximum size, define the number of wheels (if you must), require a bag of meat in the seat, and get on with racing. Then you’ll see the real innovation as teams take different approaches.
......
Go on F1, blow our minds with what's possible.
The problem with that is you'll very quickly exceed the safe limits of all the existing tracks. And even aside from the cost of building new ones with massive runoffs, moving spectators half a mile back from the sidelines will make it even more of a TV only sport than it is now. Which will be bad for the sport in the long run -it's the "you have to be there" passionate fans who drive interest: just look at Indy or Le Mans.

The way to keep costs down is to radically shake up the rules every couple of years. Sounds counterintuitive, but immature rules give an underfunded teamd the opportunity to come up with a radical concept and blow everyone out of the water, as the Americas Cup has shown (yes,I know, Americas Cup makes F1 look cheap - I'm talking relatively). Once rules are stable, it becomes a war of attrition and the winner is the one who can throw the most resource at it. Which is when costs get really crazy. There's no way of controlling that short of a spending cap,which many sports have shown is pretty much impossible to enforce even if the big players would allow it.

Quickben

43 posts

159 months

Tuesday 12th March 2019
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I stopped watching F1 regularly years ago, when they regulated out the use of V10's, then when they pressed the mute button on the engines ie. the onset of the 1.6 turbo hybrids, I stopped watching entirely. I don't care about the racing, haven't given a toss about who the drivers are for ages. I'm only interested in the cars themselves.

It used to be an event to watch, even on tv, now it's boring to watch, boring to listen to, and the current presenters make my teeth itch. Every now and again I'll watch the highlights, but after 5mins of watching it, turn it off. It gets turned off even quicker if it's just the presenters posturing in front of the camera.

If they brought back the larger naturally aspirated engines, I'd watch it, no matter what contrivances they come up with to make it more exciting. Although, not on Sky, Sky can fvck off.